Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[lethalweapon3]

“I want to wake up in a city that never sleeps…”

 

Welcome, Atlanta Hawks, to the Empire State of The North! Hope you enjoy your three-night stay.

I have never understood this “Empire State of the South” business. I was gobsmacked to discover that Georgia’s other, less-peachy official state nickname wasn’t just a relic from the Industrial Era of the early 20^th century, or even from the Gilded Age. Having constructed a whole iconic building, one almost as tall as Sade’s love, in the sobriquet’s honor, New York doesn’t even know the precise origins of “Empire State,” save for some empirical references by George Washington in the colonial period.

All we know for sure is the adoption of that nickname was about a decade or so after Washington Irving penned the satirical, “Knickerbocker’s History of New York” (1809), under a Knickerbocker-surnamed pseudonym referencing the attire of Dutch settlers in and around Manhattan. Further, that Georgia, for no clear reason, at some point elected to just tag along. “New York? Sure, we’re that. For down here.”

Fans decked out in orange-and-blue attending professional basketball games in Manhattan, like this evening’s at Madison Square Garden (Pedialyte, Bawb! 7:30 PM Eastern, Bally Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, MSG Network), probably thank their lucky stars no one over in Albany’s state legislature had the bright idea, “How about The Knickerbocker State? Kind of catchy, eh?” That would have placed too much pressure on a franchise that has underwhelmed for decades.

Much the same, we can be grateful nobody looked at the Hawks arriving in Georgia from St. Louis and proposed, “Atlanta Southern Knicks,” as a new knick-name. We’d have a giant furry question mark named Askew as a mascot. Before you ASK, no, I have not taken up huffing paint.

But have I mentioned already how I can’t get over Empire State of the South? All this time, I thought our state’s titans of commerce deliberately sought to convey, “You know JP Morgan? We’re like that guy. Only we trade in crypto down here, and by crypto, we mean cotton!” But no. Turns out, this was an antebellum-era decision. Which still makes no sense.

We’re the ones named after King George II, a monarch who knew a thing about an empire or two, and not some Duke that arrived late to the party. I could see, maybe, if Georgia came online as a state in 1788, and they were somehow following New York’s lead. But no. Georgia beat New York to the punch by over six months. With all respect to Ray J, when it comes to entering the Union, we hit it first! (Well, fourth, reminds some square from Delaware.)

The minute the ink dried on ratification, Georgia became America’s largest state by land area, and held that hefty status until Missouri hopped on board in 1821. For over three decades, Georgia was the small-n notorious B.I.G., not New York.

So why, hundreds of years later, are we still “me, too!”-ing those folks? Don’t talk about no Fortune 500 companies in the state’s biggest metropolis, when the whole New York Stock Exchange has been owned and run by a firm HQ’d in Atlanta for the past ten years. We literally run that town!

If anything, they should have been following our lead, although admittedly, “Peach State of the North,” would have required more nuanced explanation. Therefore, I decree, on this 7^th day of December, 2022, Anno Dominique, to be the official change of Georgia’s semi-nickname as “THE Empire State,” with New York settling for “That Empire State Up North.” Word to the Buckeyes… I know what you’ll be doing on New Year’s Eve, and that’s losing to the Dawgs. Woof.

Okay, in the time it took you read all that, or at worst scrolled down, the squawking Hawks squandered another second-half lead in losing fashion, this time on Monday to the boys hailing from Trae Young’s Sooner State. Shots didn’t fall (30.3 4^th-quarter team FG%), defense in the paint sagged and settled for silly fouls, mindless turnovers pervaded what passed for a functional offense, wash, rinse, repeat.

Now they’ll spend a few days up in TESUN entertaining the masses, starting with the franchise that has been trying to ape the Hawks’ success, such that it is, for the better part of 18 months, largely with the same personnel.

As much as we chided coach Nate McMillan’s Hawks for being a hot mess through much of last season, his team at least won more games than they lost, then knocked some more heads in the Play-Ins before bowing out. Tom Thibodeau’s Knicks, entering 2020’s Playoffs as a prohibitive favorite, got bounced in a gentleman’s sweep, vowed, “never again!” and proved themselves right, so far, by going 37-45 and missing 2021’s Playoffs entirely.

Now, even with RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Mitchell Robinson, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, and Obi Toppin all still kicking about under Thibs, the Knicks’ brass has been trying desperately to convince fans they’re not p*ssy-footing around anymore. See, they added Jalen Brunson and his pops. And we spotted them a Hawk wing player along the way.

The Knicks know they have to do better. And better they did on Monday, Thibs-ball spoiling Donovan Mitchell’s return as the Knicks throttled the Cavs’ offense along the way to a 92-81 win here at MSG. That stemmed a five-game home losing skid for New York (11-13), and a 2-6 stretch (not counting last month’s 145-135 home loss to OKC) that only stoked the ire further in Thibodeau’s direction.

The coach isn’t helping matters much by DNP-CD’ing one of the few players Knicks fans have grown fond of recently. Cam Reddish was starting and averaging over 30 minutes per game, his defensive impact evident as New York began showing glimpses of a turnaround. Returning after injuring a groin muscle while shadowing Steph Curry, Cam saw his minutes off the bench shrink from 27, to 17, to 14, to nine, to none at all in the win over Cleveland.

Thibs prefers to ramp up minutes for Quentin Grimes, who had been missing time with a foot injury, at the former Hawk’s expense. That didn’t cost the Knicks against Mitchell and Darius Garland (combined 5-for-20 3FGs) on Monday, but Thibodeau will need all the guard defense he can find to stop an Atlanta guard duo that is licking their wounds off a bad home loss, seeking to stop the distractions, and growing eerily too comfortable with the rambunctious MSG crowd.

Young returns to the Garden, this evening, with even fewer cast members from the 2021 playoff crew that made the Knicks look like a sketch comedy on a Saturday night. Second in scoring during that fateful series, Bogdan Bogdanovic is shedding the barnacles after his offseason surgery. Aside from Clint Capela and some cameo appearances from Onyeka Okongwu, that’s about all the current Hawks (13-11) have to haunt New York’s memories.

But Trae and the Hawks do have company. McMillan overused Young and Dejounte Murray on Monday, the lack of guard bench help midway through the OKC game doing them in later. Both backcourt stars are rested up, participating in Nate’s shootaround which we not talkin’ ‘bout, and eager to stage a repeat of sorts from November 2, when the Hawks reversed a 51-28 deficit with a 32-10 third quarter, largely on the strength of Murray’s brilliance (36 points, 9 assists, 5 steals).

Aaron Holiday (DNP vs. OKC) led the Atlanta bench with 8 points in November’s 112-99 victory, but he could have helped turn things around faster with better defensive impact from the start. The prime objective for Young, Murray, AJ Griffin and Holiday is to keep Brunson (21.0 PPG, 53.5 2FG%, 6.3 APG, 1.8 TOs/game; 12.0 PPG off drives, 4^th in NBA and just ahead of Young’s 11.7), Barrett, Grimes and Quickley out of the paint, which is the Knicks’ bread-and-butter (56.7 drives/game, 2^nd in NBA behind OKC).

Nearly half of New York’s offense comes from paint points (49.9%, 2^nd in NBA and tops in the East), and that volume is compounded whenever Robinson, Randle and Isaiah Hartenstein can pound the glass for tips, putbacks and tip-outs. Jalen Johnson and Onyeka Okongwu will have big roles in helping Capela suppress access to New York’s caroms. If they do, and all of Hawk guards limit pathways via cuts and drives inside, they’ll avoid granting the Knicks and their bing-bonging fans the false confidence they built up early in last month’s meeting.

While I have seized the Empire State moniker, no more directional additives needed, for Georgia until further notice, New York the City remains the concrete jungle where dreams for Trae and his daring team from Atlanta were made.  The Hawks could one day actualize those dreams, with commitments to correct their flaws and support one other. With a little more help from the front office, there’s nothing they can’t do, in New York or elsewhere. But first, they have to decide when they wish to wake up.

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[macdaddy]

Beautifully written.  I share you disdain for the 'Empire state of the south'.  

This one is a big game for Hawks in the midst of all the drama.  We should beat them but we should've beaten OKC.   

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Georgia was the small-n notorious B.I.G., not New York.

 

24 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

or at worst scrolled down,

Never!

 

24 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Young returns to the Garden,

Muahahahahahahaha  

24 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Jalen Johnson and Onyeka Okongwu will have big roles in helping Capela suppress access to New York’s caroms.

This! OO swattemmmmm!!!

 

Awesome thread @lethalweapon3 history lesson on why..

GEORGIA>NY

Vegas has Knicks -2

2k Owned NY by 30!

Trae went ish! Yeaaaa, again!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Spud2nique

[AHF]

I'm pretty sure I've never heard "Empire State of the South" come out of any Georgian's mouth.  Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use that phrase.  Only seen it in print.

[lethalweapon3]

Neither team has any new surprises on the Boo-Boo Report as of 1:30 PM.

Lightly-used guard Ryan Arcidiacono (sprained ankle) had been shelved the prior three games for the Knicks, and will sit out at least one more.

Two-way guard Trent Forrest remains in concussion protocol for the Hawks, while Tyrese Martin is doing Skyhawk duty.

~lw3

[ShooterSays]

Trae always takes his game to another level at MSG. Will tonight be the night he turns this season around? 

[BangHolman]

Hopefully the "F*ck Trae Young" chants wake him up

[benhillboy]

I hate to be a d@$k but I’m asking for someone to post the Athletic article again I can’t seem to find it In the “Trae” thread.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

 

I hate to be a d@$k

 

Hmm … CHALLENGE!!!

I think you don’t mind it  

[JeffS17]

Our net rating is about break even zero...13-11 and we could easily be 11-13... hope we blow the Knicks out and start a nice win streak tonight.  I wanna see some renewed energy before the holidays.

[Alf]

I have hated the Knicks ever since a guy I served with was a huge fan of them and was a prick who always ate all the f***ing doughnuts

But anyway, as far as the game itself I feel good about it and think we will come out the victor. And hey, just ordered this sticker a couple days ago lol:

[lethalweapon3]

Obviously no Bawb this evening, but a familiar sportscasting face will fill in.

~lw3

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JeffS17]

7:30PM start time

[terrell]

No reason right there for Trae not to pass to AJ

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

7:30PM start time

  I was wondering what happened.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

SMH

OK Bogi . . . you're up.

[MaceCase]

Knicks love hurting our guards 

[JayBirdHawk]

Oh No - Murray limping.

[MaceCase]

“Get your ass back on the bench, A-Ho”