The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[marco102]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

AJ is playing.

Who does AJ replace in the lineup?  Usually AJ comes in for Trae and DJ moves over to the 1. 

 

Explain him not wanting to play AJ.

[sturt]

(Aside: If I hadn't said it before, I find "JHol"... seemingly to be pronounced "jay-hole"... edging right up to the line b/t appropriate and disrespectful. Maybe that's because it's twin, "AHol" is pretty clearly over it. Surprised people have embraced those, but then again, I don't, given who first began using them routinely as far as I could observe.)

15 minutes ago, thecampster said:

They were showcasing him first 20+ games...backfired.

So, lemmee get this straight... you contend that JDay was never actually someone the coaching staff considered a plausible rotation piece? Because, as you know, right... pretty much most of this board argued with me during preseason that JDay was both adequate to the task and that Nate was infatuated with his former Indiana Pacer. But even I thought Nate was just going with what he thought would be a contributor to winning games.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

One last nugget.  There may be some discontent on Nate's staff with ownership.  The push to showcase talent and take minutes from Griffin, Johnson and Kaminsky.  A few on his staff believe in Johnson and Kaminsky from a defensive presence standpoint.  All believe in Griffin. 

The ownership message is two-sided between win now and help us get value in trades. Do not be surprised if there's a writeup on this in the media early next week or maybe held back to right after the deadline.

 

It will be now . . since the lurker sports writers love to steal content from this site, and roll with it.  They need to be paying you a % of what they get.

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Hawks attempts to showcase Bogi for a trade seem to have backfired with all interest in deals where Bogi is included have cooled. Teams don't trust his knees.

 

 

I thought Bogi was playing too many minutes.  He should be about Gallo minutes topping out at 25 mpg. 31 mpg is just too much.

I don't get, in the few games we had our full squad he shortens the rotation to 8 guys.

[JayBirdHawk]

21 minutes ago, thecampster said:

They were showcasing him first 20+ games...backfired.

 

 

This makes even less trading for him then. Should have kept Huerter.

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Explain him not wanting to play AJ.

Don't think that's what he said... in context.

He's having to play AJ because why? Because KVon was traded.

Who does that? Who continues to be pissed that KVon was traded all these many months later?

 

[thecampster]

totals this year

Player    Minutes       PTS  FG%  3PTFG%  Assists Stls   Rebounds  blks

A. Holiday 682         196   41.9    42.4      62       26        59             10

JJ               673          240   47.4    28.6      44       22     169           21

J. Holiday  405          121   37.7    34.1     24        5      23             10

Kaminsky   168         69      57.1   47.8      20       4       36             1

 

Lets look at it as PER36 numbers.

Player                    PTS       Reb    Assists     Stls      Blks

Kaminsky               14.8     7.7      4.3          .9         .2

J. Johnson              12.8     9.0      2.4          1.2      1.1

J. Holiday               10.8      2.0     2.1          .4        .9

A. Holiday              10.3      3.1     3.3         1.4       .5

 

Jarrett Culver has a higher p36 ppg/FG%/Reb/Stl rate than Holiday....let that sink in.

from a PER36 standpoint, JJ and OO are nearly twins. with the big issue being JJ takes 3 attempts and couldn't hit them to start the year dragging down his percent. OO doesn't stretch the floor but it bumps his FG% dramatically.

 

Coaching staff has argued minutes for players all year.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

Don't think that's what he said... in context.

He's having to play AJ because why? Because KVon was traded.

Who does that? Who continues to be pissed that KVon was traded all these many months later?

 

That's not how I interpreted it and that's fine.

[sturt]

  

1 hour ago, sturt said:

But I interpret it, too, knowing that there are no quotes here, only paraphrases, and that I'm at least two, possibly three versions away from the original words that came out of the head coach's mouth.

We all get this choice constantly in life... will I assume the best or the worst, as it could go either way. Some of us choose the former, some of us choose the latter. I just urge people to do what they'd like done to them. Golden rule and all that.

Nate is a good man by almost anyone's account. Nate is not stupid. I start there in how I decode what's going on.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Coaching staff has argued minutes for players all year.

Nate has difficulty playing more than 9. I'm glad the rest of the staff at least understand the importance of playing the bench. Nate's 'we aren't in development' still rings from last season. You can't stop developing players. Even Trae still needs development.

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, sturt said:

Who does that? Who continues to be pissed that KVon was traded all these many months later?

 

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This makes even less trading for him then. Should have kept Huerter.

I swear we did not coordinate hitting the ....               

... sometimes the basketball gods seem to nudge us, though.

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This makes even less trading for him then. Should have kept Huerter.

But gotta get under the Luxury Tax.  Smh. We won't make any headway cost cutting talent.

[sturt]

Nate's frustration is our frustration.

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

But gotta get under the Luxury Tax.

Enough maybe to drive a guy to say earlier in the season... as was recently reported... "I'm seriously thinking about calling it quits," but eventually deciding "Okay I'm in. One more year."

Except, after Nate's gone, whenever that is, he won't be an Atlanta Hawks fan anymore.

Most of us don't feel we have that choice. We consider ourselves (though technically, no, we're not really) stuck. Completely servants bowing to the whims of an owner who once claimed he would pay LT under certain conditions, but has since given us explicit reason to believe he's decided differently.

[thecampster]

I organized this per36 chart by Rebounds to get the bigs to the top.  I've highlighted some numbers to prove my point. Remembering that Collins is on the floor with Trae as much or more than any other player catching lobs and it ups his FG%.  Jalen's numbers are in line with both Collins and OO.  That Kaminsky gets 4.3 a/36 is also impressive. With clint out so long, the minutes distribution was a travesty when most of our issues were with rebounds, interior defense.

[sturt]

33 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nate has difficulty playing more than 9. I'm glad the rest of the staff at least understand the importance of playing the bench. Nate's 'we aren't in development' still rings from last season. You can't stop developing players. Even Trae still needs development.

Few people are bigger advocates of playing the entire roster every night than I am. I once even proposed rules that would make it necessary to limit players to 36 minutes max per night (... have to sit out at least one quarter).

Few people, consequently, are more disappointed with how routinely Nate sticks exclusively with his rotation these days... a big departure from a time just last season when Nate was quoted as being optimistic that he was going to be able to play two full units ie, ten players in his rotation. He said that. I know. I sat up and paid attention when he did. So, said to myself at the time, clearly it's not like he doesn't even barely think like I do.

Few people, seemingly, start their assessment of Nate's decisions from the perspective, "in the choice between giving a benefit of a doubt and not, I'm choosing to give it," and from the perspective, "Nate's not stupid. He has reasons for what he chooses to do, and sometimes if not often those reasons are well-grounded... he relatively rarely would seem to go with his gut."

So. That to say. When Nate said "we aren't in development," one can interpret him as stupid, as-if unaware that "you can't stop developing players"... or that Nate should have been interpreted, perhaps, as saying "we're well beyond the time when our priority was developing players over winning games."

Nate, I believe we all can agree, sees winning games as paramount. And when that's the case, the in-game decision-making is going to follow that you play the guys you have most confidence are going to help you win that game on that day.

Does he take it to an extreme? Maybe so, but it's not my job and my legacy on the line. He's paid to win. And either the in-development players contribute enough when they get their shot that they get more minutes, or they won't.

[kg01]

26 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I organized this per36 chart by Rebounds to get the bigs to the top.  I've highlighted some numbers to prove my point. Remembering that Collins is on the floor with Trae as much or more than any other player catching lobs and it ups his FG%.  Jalen's numbers are in line with both Collins and OO.  That Kaminsky gets 4.3 a/36 is also impressive. With clint out so long, the minutes distribution was a travesty when most of our issues were with rebounds, interior defense.

I never understood folks dislike of Kaminski. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

(Aside: If I hadn't said it before, I find "JHol"... seemingly to be pronounced "jay-hole"... edging right up to the line b/t appropriate and disrespectful. Maybe that's because it's twin, "AHol" is pretty clearly over it. Surprised people have embraced those, but then again, I don't, given who first began using them routinely as far as I could observe.)

So, lemmee get this straight... you contend that JDay was never actually someone the coaching staff considered a plausible rotation piece? Because, as you know, right... pretty much most of this board argued with me during preseason that JDay was both adequate to the task and that Nate was infatuated with his former Indiana Pacer. But even I thought Nate was just going with what he thought would be a contributor to winning games.

 

 

So you want me to stop using A Hol and J Hol?

OK . . I'll stop using those names.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, sturt said:

Few people are bigger advocates of playing the entire roster every night than I am. I once even proposed rules that would make it necessary to limit players to 36 minutes max per night (... have to sit out at least one quarter).

Few people, consequently, are more disappointed with how routinely Nate sticks exclusively with his rotation these days... a big departure from a time just last season when Nate was quoted as being optimistic that he was going to be able to play two full units ie, ten players in his rotation. He said that. I know. I sat up and paid attention when he did. So, said to myself at the time, clearly it's not like he doesn't even barely think like I do.

Few people, seemingly, start their assessment of Nate's decisions from the perspective, "in the choice between giving a benefit of a doubt and not, I'm choosing to give it," and from the perspective, "Nate's not stupid. He has reasons for what he chooses to do, and sometimes if not often those reasons are well-grounded... he relatively rarely would seem to go with his gut."

So. That to say. When Nate said "we aren't in development," one can interpret him as stupid, as-if unaware that "you can't stop developing players"... or that Nate should have been interpreted, perhaps, as saying "we're well beyond the time when our priority was developing players over winning games."

Nate, I believe we all can agree, sees winning games as paramount. And when that's the case, the in-game decision-making is going to follow that you play the guys you have most confidence are going to help you win that game on that day.

Does he take it to an extreme? Maybe so, but it's not my job and my legacy on the line. He's paid to win. And either the in-development players contribute enough when they get their shot that they get more minutes, or they won't.

8,9,10 players? 

My overall point is this....Nate goes into a game with a specific game plan and more often than not he is slow to adapt to in game conditions. He has no give or flexibility on his lineups/rotations....he doesn't coach with instinct or feel for the ebb and flow of the players and the overall game. 

Example: a guy is hot but it's his time to exit....so out he comes.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So you want me to stop using A Hol and J Hol?

OK . . I'll stop using those names.

 

 

AHoli and JHoli? Naaaa too long.

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So you want me to stop using A Hol and J Hol?

OK . . I'll stop using those names.

I said what I said.

It's up to individuals to decide if disrespectful is a thing for them... not the boss of anyone...

but/and, also not bashful, either, of course, to point out what might be obvious but then again maybe is not.

In other news, I've decided to call Onyeka "Kong" after all.