Official Playoff Game Thread: Celtics at Hawks -- GAME 6 (8:30 PM Tip!)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all, stop lying about me never giving him credit when he plays well or not thinking much him...Secondly, it is guys like you who are bias and never criticize Young when he plays poorly or never even acknowledge that he should not be taking all of the shots because he has literally the lowest effective field goal % on the team.  It is also people like who are quick to criticize other players for the smallest mistakes during the course of a game while rarely recognizing that others contributed in a positive way.  I can go on and on about fan like you who are only fans of 1 player and not the team and I'm not the only one who has noticed this obvious fact.  So don't lecture to me!  Your biases and motivations are obvious for all to see.

 

I also point out when he's playing bad.  I was literally doing a countdown in this game on how he was starting to struggle with his shot in the 2nd half.

I'm a 35 year fan of this team, so I will be a fan while Trae is here, and after he leaves the Hawks ( whenever that is in the future ). If people want him to shoot less, others have to consistently ( key word: consistently ) show up.  Until then, he has to be the offensive engine of the team, in order for us to be competitive on a nightly basis.

Multiple people had a chance to contribute down the stretch.  Trae missed some open 3s and had a shot blocked going to the basket.  Murray had a layup blocked. Collins had a post opportunity in which he couldn't catch the ball cleanly.  And your boy Hunter had a wide open 3 that could've put us up 6 with 5 min to go in the 4th, but he missed.

So if you want Trae to shoot less, the others have to be more consistent.  When they become more consistent, they'll get more touches.

Until the players around him prove otherwise, the ball needs to be in his hands and we go as he goes. 

[Peoriabird]

18 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I'll give you an actual answer even though I suspect you barely read people arguments.

Yes, Bogi is an offensive weapon.  He also rarely gets open because our spacing is terrible -- the Celtics were able to stick to him like glue because CC cannot space the floor (understatement), OO cannot space the floor, and Murray/JC are not highly respected 3P threats.  So when Bogi is on the floor, there is a perimeter defender glued to him.  And Bogi doesn't have a quick enough first step to take advantage of the tight defense.  Also, while JC might be able to shoot threes, that is only one component of spacing the floor -- if you have no dribble/drive game, defenders have the freedom to play you however they want -- tight defense, sag off and close out, help in the paint when you're on the weakside and trust rotations, etc. 

Right now, we have two players who have the ability to shoot 3s, dribble, and facilitate.  Dre has a decent pump fake/drive game, but his tunnel vision is so bad it's very easy for the defense to collapse on him.  As the Hawks are currently constructed, the defenses rarely have to make hard decisions and have freedom how they guard some of our guys.  Compare that to the Celtics where your center led the league in 3P%, you have 3-4 guys who can take their man off the dribble, and two elite shotmakers/finishers at the rim.  The game looked like a layup line because our defense has to pick how we want to get exploited -- layup line or open three.  Replace Marcus Smart with Trae and I promise his efficiency would sky rocket.  The makeup of that roster is near-perfect for modern basketball, and if we can get closer to that, Trae's efficiency will inevitably rise.  If that doesn't make sense to you and you want to have a good faith conversation, happy to share more perspective. 

JC has a better career percentage 3 than Trae Young...Just had a bad shooting year but I get it...Its never Trae Young's fault that he shoots so poorly, Its always his teammate who are keeping up their end of the bargain.  So no matter what is argued, this will always be the go to.  It is the rest of the team and not Trae Young no matter who is on the floor with him.  The funny thing is that Murray shot a career high in 3 point percentage with the same motley crew but that's a discussion for another time.

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Multiple people had a chance to contribute down the stretch.  Trae missed some open 3s and had a shot blocked going to the basket.  Murray had a layup blocked. Collins had a post opportunity in which he couldn't catch the ball cleanly.  And your boy Hunter had a wide open 3 that could've put us up 6 with 5 min to go in the 4th, but he missed.

 

You may want to go review those box score shooting percentages again...There is a difference between missing 1 shot and 10 straight but In Trae fans eyes, 1 Collins miss equals 10 trae misses I guess

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Oh so you think like that?  The number of shots should be set?  That's the problem and I'm hear to tell you your offense will never be good if the least efficient player is going to be guarantee the most shots.  Just plain ignorant.

No I don't think number of shots should be set.  That is asinine and of course you putting words in my mouth.  I think that Trae in fact will remain the first option on offense under Quin's direction.  

Do you think that will be the case?  That was the exact issue on which you lost our last bet.  

[REHawksFan]

@AHF @JeffS17

So I went and looked this up because I keep seeing certain posters claim that Trae isn't an efficient shooter and is worst on the team.  But this speaks to what each of you have asserted in this this.  

Among all players with 18 FGA per game (high volume shooter in other words):

Last year:  Trae ranked 8th out of 21 players in eFG% at 53.6%

This year:  Trae ranked 23rd out of 25 players in eFG% at 45.5%

Some may be normal variance but a lot can likely be attributed to roster construction. I don't see any reason by Trae can't be a high volume shooter that is also efficient when he has other floor spacers on the court with him. That's what happened last year and he ranked in the Top 10 among high volume shooters.   

[shakes]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

JC has a better career percentage 3 than Trae Young...J

hmm, it's almost like one player lives off of catch and shoot wide open 3s and the other gets his 3s off the dribble with a man closely guarding him.

 

I wonder if JC has a better catch and shoot career percentage than Trae?

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

@AHF @JeffS17

So I went and looked this up because I keep seeing certain posters claim that Trae isn't an efficient shooter and is worst on the team.  But this speaks to what each of you have asserted in this this.  

Among all players with 18 FGA per game (high volume shooter in other words):

Last year:  Trae ranked 8th out of 21 players in eFG% at 53.6%

This year:  Trae ranked 23rd out of 25 players in eFG% at 45.5%

Some may be normal variance but a lot can likely be attributed to roster construction. I don't see any reason by Trae can't be a high volume shooter that is also efficient when he has other floor spacers on the court with him. That's what happened last year and he ranked in the Top 10 among high volume shooters.   

EFG% is important but the free throws are important too.  Think of Jimmy Butler as an example of the high impact of free throws.  

Trae averaged 6.2 FTA/gm in the postseason this year.  That is still huge for our team and shouldn't be ignored.

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

@AHF @JeffS17

So I went and looked this up because I keep seeing certain posters claim that Trae isn't an efficient shooter and is worst on the team.  But this speaks to what each of you have asserted in this this.  

Among all players with 18 FGA per game (high volume shooter in other words):

Last year:  Trae ranked 8th out of 21 players in eFG% at 53.6%

This year:  Trae ranked 23rd out of 25 players in eFG% at 45.5%

Some may be normal variance but a lot can likely be attributed to roster construction. I don't see any reason by Trae can't be a high volume shooter that is also efficient when he has other floor spacers on the court with him. That's what happened last year and he ranked in the Top 10 among high volume shooters.   

Losing Heurter and Gallo and JC's 3P shot being off most of the year killed his spacing.  I expect major improvement next year under Quin even if we dont make major moves.

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

No I don't think number of shots should be set.  That is asinine and of course you putting words in my mouth.  I think that Trae in fact will remain the first option on offense under Quin's direction.  

Do you think that will be the case?  That was the exact issue on which you lost our last bet.  

1st options means just that.  You are the 1st option, if that not a good option, you go to the next option.  What is it that I'm missing

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

EFG% is important but the free throws are important too.  Think of Jimmy Butler as an example of the high impact of free throws.  

Trae averaged 6.2 FTA/gm in the postseason this year.  That is still huge for our team and shouldn't be ignored.

I agree that FTs are important, especially in the regular season.  Not trying to ignore them, but I also agree that there importance decreases in the playoffs.  There's no denying that the strategy of trying to draw a foul late in the games don't work for Trae.  Whether it's a general rule or one where he specifically just doesn't get the calls, I don't know.  But whatever the reasoning, it's far better to me if he shoots more efficiently rather than trying to get to the line all the time.  

 

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st options means just that.  You are the 1st option, if that not a good option, you go to the next option.  What is it that I'm missing

You've already said he's the worst shooter on the team. That means there's ALWAYS going to be 4 better shooters on the floor with him.  So when exactly would Trae be the best option in your opinion?  Ever?  

 

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st options means just that.  You are the 1st option, if that not a good option, you go to the next option.  What is it that I'm missing

You say he is the worst shooter on the team. I disagree with that but am following the logic that it drives.  No one who is the worst shooter on the team should ever be the first option because there will be 4 better options on the court with them at any time.  So either we should expect that Trae will no longer be the first option, we reject the premise that he is the worst shooter, or we conclude that Quin is an idiot.  Not sure what other options there are.

If Trae remains the top shooter and #1 option next season, then either Quin is a moron or he strongly disagrees with your premise.

[REHawksFan]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Losing Heurter and Gallo and JC's 3P shot being off most of the year killed his spacing.  I expect major improvement next year under Quin even if we dont make major moves.

I actually think if they trade Clint for someone that can space the floor but maybe isn't as much of a lane clogger as Clint is, it will open things up for JC.  Getting back to JC these last 2 games was really refreshing and a good reminder of how good he can be when utilized properly.  

[Peoriabird]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

You've already said he's the worst shooter on the team. That means there's ALWAYS going to be 4 better shooters on the floor with him.  So when exactly would Trae be the best option in your opinion?  Ever?  

 

Sometimes he does make good decisions and then other time he doesn't.  He needs to straighten that out before the hawks offense can become elite

[REHawksFan]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Sometimes he does make good decisions and then other time he doesn't.  He needs to straighten that out before the hawks offense can become elite

That doesn't answer the question.  When exactly do you see him as the best option or 1st option?  In what situation should Trae be the 1st option?  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

You say he is the worst shooter on the team. I disagree with that but am following the logic that it drives.  No one who is the worst shooter on the team should ever be the first option because there will be 4 better options on the court with them at any time.  So either we should expect that Trae will no longer be the first option, we reject the premise that he is the worst shooter, or we conclude that Quin is an idiot.  Not sure what other options there are.

If Trae remains the top shooter and #1 option next season, then either Quin is a moron or he strongly disagrees with your premise.

Certainly if his 1st option is to take a pull up 3 from the logo then no but if his 1st option is to drive the paint and shoot a floater then yes he can.  He just has to eliminate the bad decision and he will be fine

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

@AHF @JeffS17

So I went and looked this up because I keep seeing certain posters claim that Trae isn't an efficient shooter and is worst on the team.  But this speaks to what each of you have asserted in this this.  

Among all players with 18 FGA per game (high volume shooter in other words):

Last year:  Trae ranked 8th out of 21 players in eFG% at 53.6%

This year:  Trae ranked 23rd out of 25 players in eFG% at 45.5%

Some may be normal variance but a lot can likely be attributed to roster construction. I don't see any reason by Trae can't be a high volume shooter that is also efficient when he has other floor spacers on the court with him. That's what happened last year and he ranked in the Top 10 among high volume shooters.   

So you arguing with Stephen A. Smith??

This is his argument for why Trae will be traded. It's not a strong enough argument if you ask me. 

 

[REHawksFan]

Just now, Diesel said:

So you arguing with Stephen A. Smith??

This is his argument for why Trae will be traded. It's not a strong enough argument if you ask me. 

 

I don't follow.  What is his argument?  Nothing I posted suggests Trae should be traded.  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

That doesn't answer the question.  When exactly do you see him as the best option or 1st option?  In what situation should Trae be the 1st option?  

if he is the 1st option as is meaning he can't eliminate those poor decision then there will be a cap on how good  the offense regardless of the personnel but if he starts to make better decisions especially late in games, the Hawks offensive potential goes way up!

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I actually think if they trade Clint for someone that can space the floor but maybe isn't as much of a lane clogger as Clint is, it will open things up for JC.  Getting back to JC these last 2 games was really refreshing and a good reminder of how good he can be when utilized properly.  

What if they traded Clint and replaced him with OO.

I proposed a Clint for Isaac's trade.   Defense and scoring off the bench. 

The question is.. Can OO and JC make a natural mix?  JC can work down low and OO can work somewhere other than down low?