That game-winning 3 pointer will set Josh back 2 years

[niremetal]

Are we talking about the cat who had the game winning shot? Wait, we can't be talking about the cat who had the game winning block can we? Because if that's what 'ruins' a player, than you guys are living in some bizarro world. A team captain stepped up and made two of the biggest plays of the game and all everyone here can do is whine because he didn't do it the way they thought he should have. Screw the method, I want results. I saw a young player believe in himself and accept the challenge to make big plays when the team needed them the most. If that's not growth, I don't know what is. Get over yourselves and your notions about what you think Josh Smith should be. :shake_puter:

Tell you what. The next time we lose a close game in which Josh missed 5-6 long jumpers, let's chat. And when the same thing happens again a few games later, we'll chat again. I would much rather have lost this game (and, btw, I don't think we would have lost tonight's game even if Josh never shot that 3) then watch the team lose 5 games later this season, in part because Josh keeps insisting on taking shots that he hits less than 30% of the time. We've all seen that movie before with the Hawks. In close games, taking a few low-percentage shots is often the difference between a win and a loss, same as blown ISOs or a few possessions of poor defensive schemes.

So far this season, Josh is 4 for 14 (.286) on his midrange jumpers. The problem is that he’ll just remember the one that went in at the end of tonight’s game and use that as an internal excuse to keep shooting them. Nevermind that we probably would never had to deal with such a close game if Josh hadn't taken and missed 5 long jumpers earlier in the game.

Edited October 30, 2010 by niremetal

[Marvin24Williams]

Well we should be happy Jsmoove bailed us out with that 3. However, do I want him taking another shot like that in clutch moments? HELL NO.

[foeteen14]

Well we should be happy Jsmoove bailed us out with that 3. However, do I want him taking another shot like that in clutch moments? HELL NO.

he makes them. no, no, no yeeeeessssss. that's what he does

[Atlantaholic]

Tell you what. The next time we lose a close game in which Josh missed 5-6 long jumpers, let's chat. And when the same thing happens again a few games later, we'll chat again. I would much rather have lost this game (and, btw, I don't think we would have lost tonight's game even if Josh never shot that 3) then watch the team lose 5 games later this season, in part because Josh keeps insisting on taking shots that he hits less than 30% of the time. We've all seen that movie before with the Hawks. In close games, taking a few low-percentage shots is often the difference between a win and a loss, same as blown ISOs or a few possessions of poor defensive schemes.

So far this season, Josh is 4 for 14 (.286) on his midrange jumpers. The problem is that he’ll just remember the one that went in at the end of tonight’s game and use that as an internal excuse to keep shooting them. Nevermind that we probably would never had to deal with such a close game if Josh hadn't taken and missed 5 long jumpers earlier in the game.

Josh has been shooting jumpers every year he has been in the league. Even last year, bro. I don't really remember Josh costing us many games in the past, so why would he do it this year??? The guy has been improving every year in the league and we would have allowed 120 points tonight if Josh Smith hadn't single handedly shut down the sixers offense in the third quarter. Considering we shot 51% from the field I'm thinking that our 20 turnovers and the 22 free throws we gave up in the second half are probably a little bit bigger reason for the game being close than five missed jumpers by Smith.

Josh isn't off to the best start, but in under 30 minutes of playing time the guy is rebounding at a fantastic rate and blocking shots at a totally ridiculous rate, so lets not start acting like he is costing the team.

FYI he was far and away the starter with the best +/- in the game tonight, as we outscored Philadelphia by 11 points while he was in the game.

[hawkman]

Tell you what. The next time we lose a close game in which Josh missed 5-6 long jumpers, let's chat. And when the same thing happens again a few games later, we'll chat again. I would much rather have lost this game (and, btw, I don't think we would have lost tonight's game even if Josh never shot that 3) then watch the team lose 5 games later this season, in part because Josh keeps insisting on taking shots that he hits less than 30% of the time. We've all seen that movie before with the Hawks. In close games, taking a few low-percentage shots is often the difference between a win and a loss, same as blown ISOs or a few possessions of poor defensive schemes.

So far this season, Josh is 4 for 14 (.286) on his midrange jumpers. The problem is that he’ll just remember the one that went in at the end of tonight’s game and use that as an internal excuse to keep shooting them. Nevermind that we probably would never had to deal with such a close game if Josh hadn't taken and missed 5 long jumpers earlier in the game.

But see that's not fair. What about the three's that were taken on the fast break? What about the blown layups? What about the missed free throws? What about the turnovers during the fourth when it looked like everyone was freelancing out there? If you wanted to, you could point the finger at every single player that took the court if we had lost tonite. But everyone chooses to point the finger at the player with the highest +/- on the team tonite by a LARGE margin after a WIN in which he practically WON THE GAME FOR US. That's the problem I have with this line of reasoning.

[MaceCase]

Everyone wants to cite this situation but I remember quite clearly the Detroit game last year, around the same date, on the road where the same shot in the same situation cost us the game. Short term memory, a refusal to notice stats, and some other team based argument I'm not touching has people believing Josh is the clutchiest shooter in the league.

Fact still remains, 4-14 on a shot he's already terrible at but I guess those 4 makes were very memorable for some of you.

[DJlaysitup]

...That game should have never been that close if the refs didn't completely swallow their whistle on our end of the floor and I give Josh credit for not drawing a tech especially when they ripped the guy's jersey

That's right BBIB...I remember Smoove was holding his jersey up by the collar showing it and there was a notch/tear in it I couldn't tell at the time exactly what was going on but that makes sense. I can only remember one time during the game when Smoove didn't get a call and stayed to argue with the refs while the other team ran down and scored. I'd really like to see that number be zero though.

Overall great Smoove game. He did some of everything. Controlled the D boards early, matched Marvin clank for clank on early threes, ran a fast break all the way down the middle of the court through the Philly D (and would have scored if he didn't bounce the ball off his knee at the end), got a T and had to be restrained by basically the whole team, blocked shots and intimidated inside to the point that nobody on Philly wanted to go up against him inside, made the game winning shot and then the game saving block :biggrin: .

Just another day at the office for Smoove!

[Diesel]

Are we talking about the cat who had the game winning shot? Wait, we can't be talking about the cat who had the game winning block can we? Because if that's what 'ruins' a player, than you guys are living in some bizarro world. A team captain stepped up and made two of the biggest plays of the game and all everyone here can do is whine because he didn't do it the way they thought he should have. Screw the method, I want results. I saw a young player believe in himself and accept the challenge to make big plays when the team needed them the most. If that's not growth, I don't know what is. Get over yourselves and your notions about what you think Josh Smith should be. :shake_puter:

The point is that Josh can be a much better player than this. He has the notion that he's a three point shooter and he's not. So every big three he hits, makes him believe more and more that he should be out there.

It's like Earl Campbell trying to be a finesse R.B. Sure it looks good if you can shake a defender, but your at your best when you're running right through them. If Earl successfully shakes one defender, that means that he's going to try to shake 6 more during the game instead of just running right through them. What will happen is that instead of going to the hole powerful, Earl will start tipping through the hole and will ultimately be tackled by a guy who really couldn't have stopped him otherwise.

[Gray Mule]

Put the blame where it belongs. On the 76ers defense. They, like the majority of us here,

believed that Josh was incapable of hitting that three and left him to cover someone else.

Hawks had reverted back to last season's Woodson, ISO Joe offense. Dribble, dribble,

oops, the opponent just stole the ball and scored on a fast break layup. Now, let's try

that again and hope it works this time.

Then, our all star, in crunch time, hits 50% of his free throws. We expect that of Josh

but not Joe Johnson. In fact, Josh was hitting his.

You can bet that the 76ers were just as shocked as we were when that three went down.

Why? Cause he can't do that, that's why. (Note he hit his 3 point attempt in the 1st game)

Ruined Josh for the next twenty games. He'll probably try to shoot another of those long

range bombs - aka 3 pointers - with the clock running out. If he hits another one, it just

might ruin his career. If, as the opening headline says, this one shot set Josh back 2 years,

another one would surely destroy his career.

:cant believe:

[Duff_Man]

The dumb plays were mostly Joe Johnson's turnovers (and Josh's offensiv foul plus Technical) and our innability to pass the ball in the fourth. Josh Smith bailed us out, not his fault he is getting the ball in the corner with the shot clock running out... What exactly do you suggest he should have done in that situation?

Seven seconds left on the shot clock when he caught it.

He doesn't, and never will, get it.

[Peoriabird]

Put the blame where it belongs. On the 76ers defense. They, like the majority of us here,

believed that Josh was incapable of hitting that three and left him to cover someone else.

If he hits another one, it just might ruin his career. If, as the opening headline says, this one shot set Josh back 2 years,

another one would surely destroy his career.

:cant believe:

No one is blaming anyone for the collapse in this thread! What Hawks fan are saying is when we complained about the collapse of the Hawks in the playoff in years passed this is exactly the kind of stuff that led to losses and this year we demanded that the team to play smarter under LD. The coach was fired not because the team won 53 games but it was thought that the team could play better in a different system and the 1st game confirmed it. One of the issues to be fix was to stop josh Smith from taking a lot of long Jump Shots which appears not to be happening. While some of you thinks that it is O.K. for him to do so because his last shot happened to go in, the statistics state otherwise. Hopefully this game was just a hiccup for everyone involve and doesn't represent the conversion of the team back to what it was under Woodson.

[JJFAN4LF]

Give credit when credit is due. Josh Smith made big plays down the stretch and did a solid job on the defensive side all night.

But, I'll agree that even though I was glad that Josh Smith made the shot, I wasn't glad that he took the shot. I'm not sure what the stat is for how many jumpers Josh Smith took last season, but it seems like he's taking a lot more jumpers early this season than last season. I don't remember seeing Josh Smith last season having more jumpshots than drive to the basket. I thought when LD took over as coach that Josh's maturity and decision making will improve, but so far, it has totally gone the opposite way. I thought the role of captain would stop all things wrong with Josh Smith, but I guess I was living in a fantasy world...

Even though Smoove made that shot.....stats don't lie....that was a very low percentage shot for the Hawks. We should all be glad he made it, but everyone needs to realize that more often than not, that shot isn't going in. All I want from Josh Smith, which I think most Hawks fans would want, is for him to play up to his potential. He has a good skillset that he doesn't take advantage of. He's effective around the rim, but he chooses not to take it. It's frustrating to watch a player taking jumpers and settling for being a "good" player when he could drive the ball and be a "great" player. Josh Smith's decision making is the only thing that's stopping him from being a top Power Forward in this league.

[DJlaysitup]

...Hawks had reverted back to last season's Woodson, ISO Joe offense. Dribble, dribble,

oops, the opponent just stole the ball and scored on a fast break layup. Now, let's try

that again and hope it works this time....

Good one...and true :lol6:

Seven seconds left on the shot clock when he caught it.

He doesn't, and never will, get it.

Seven seconds left and he gets the ball deep in the corner with nobody moving to the hoop and no time to reset to the PG. Granted it wasn't two or three seconds - but the clock was winding down....plus, Smoove isn't a PG facing the shot clock out front...he likely had to guess a bit on how much time was left (I'm sure he wasn't expecting to be getting the ball there). Not Guilty!

[gsuteke]

No one is blaming anyone for the collapse in this thread! What Hawks fan are saying is when we complained about the collapse of the Hawks in the playoff in years passed this is exactly the kind of stuff that led to losses and this year we demanded that the team to play smarter under LD. The coach was fired not because the team won 53 games but it was thought that the team could play better in a different system and the 1st game confirmed it. One of the issues to be fix was to stop josh Smith from taking a lot of long Jump Shots which appears not to be happening. While some of you thinks that it is O.K. for him to do so because his last shot happened to go in, the statistics state otherwise. Hopefully this game was just a hiccup for everyone involve and doesn't represent the conversion of the team back to what it was under Woodson.

+1

I don't have a problem with the game winner if smoove hadn't taken almost half a dozen shots outside the college 3 range earlier in the ball game.

His shot selection is disturbing.

[Chickenstanley]

It's not likely that any of you are going to be able to effectively argue either side of this. Too many factors are involved that aren't constant.

Interesting questions though:

1. Does Smoove's overall game more than compensate as a result of being given free-rein to shoot jumpers?

If YES, then....

2. Does the team quit or play worse when he does this?

These would seem to be the important questions that need answering. Not simply throwing out his FG% versus another persons --- and coming to the conclusion that the answer is so obvious. That method doesn't seem to be an analysis of cause and effect whatsoever -- which is what I thought this thread was supposed to be attempting to get a line on.

CS

[lethalweapon3]

Q: At what point do we 'Squawkers get on Smoove's TEAMMATES for repeatedly handing him with the ball anywhere near the 3-point line?

The above question is based entirely on the supposition that the concerns of beleaguered Hawks fans regarding Josh's shooting and positioning is remotely equivalent to those of the team and its coaching staff. Nothing I've seen since the preseason started indicates that supposition is true.

If I offer the ball to a teammate, who I've played with for at least three seasons, and 85% of the time he takes the ball and does something less-than-desirable with it from a certain distance from the basket, at some point, I start looking to drive, or finding some other passing options.

If I'm Horford last night, and I turned to find Shaq parked by his lonesome in the far corner, do I pass him the ball? Of course not. We already know why Shaq would be uncontested out there. Why would the decision with Smoove be any different?

Smoove gets no touches beyond ten feet out = he attempts no threes or WTF twos = Hawks fans rest easier. Use the motion offense to deal with the double team until Smoove figures out the only reason he's that far out is to help with screens.

~lw3

[exodus]

Smith has had plenty of games where he didn't take more than 2 jumpers and wound up playing a great game. This "he plays better when he takes jumpers" nonsense is nothing other than rationalizing dumb play.

in two games Smith has taken 14 jumpers and only 4 foul shots. That is a horrible ratio for a guy who can't shoot a lick and is a successful inside scorer. It was nothing but luck that Smith made that last 3. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Edited October 30, 2010 by exodus

[hawkman]

If Horf had made the game winning three and block, the tenor of this thread would be completely different. :cant believe:

[niremetal]

If Horf had made the game winning three and block, the tenor of this thread would be completely different. :cant believe:

Horford would never shoot a 3 with the game on the line. Hell, he doesn't even voluntarily put himself in a situation where he might have to shoot a 3 with the clock winding down. The only times I ever even remember him shooting a 3 was when he recovered loose balls with the clock winding down.

All of which is a long way of saying "I disagree with the premise of your statement."

[thecampster]

I love the Saturday morning armchair quarterbacking by a bunch of guys that get sat down in the gym at the Y. Seriously guys. How many of you have as much talent as Josh, Joe, Al, Marvin or even Bibby have in their left shoe?