Kent Bazemore...

[gopack10]

The last time I shared an article on here it was very controversial (Joe Johnson buyout).  Hopefully this one is something we can all agree on.

http://soaringdownsouth.com/2016/01/10/kent-bazemore-shining-bright-in-contract-year/

While I won't go as far to say that I think Baze is better than DMC (when healthy) on the defensive side of the ball, I will say that I have been very impressed with what he's been able to do this year with a larger role.

With he and Al both headed to free agency this summer, I hope that we don't have to choose between the two.  But I'd have to go with Baze at this point based on age and potential $ that will be thrown at each of them.  I don't want either to go but it might be another Millsap vs. DMC type of thing since we only own Baze's early bird rights which puts us in the same situation as DMC where we would have to eat into cap space to sign him.

Hopefully new ownership and a higher cap will allow us to keep both while still improving the roster in the offseason.

[Lurker]

Bazemore's defensive dashboard is actually better than Carroll's from last season last time I checked a few games ago, the only difference is Carroll MIGHT be better at post ups but I've watched him get overpowered physically at times. The problems defensively are Kyle Korver and Jeff Teague have been stiffs on that end.

And the interesting thing is the starting lineup with Bazemore is still not positive in +/- and is -1.6 in net rating, the problem I feel is Korver and Bazemore don't play off of each other well at all. The bench lineups are extremely positive over the last 12 games when looking at stats, but stuff like this is just not flying in the playoffs. Especially if one of the bench defenders is out (and with their injury histories...), as it has a counter effect of making Mike Scott unplayable.

Bazemore's likely gone. Somebody is going to overpay just like with Carroll.

[Jdawgflow]

My understanding is we can sign baze with our cap and then go over for horford.  Also, I do not feel comfortable with baze or dmc guarding lebron which is what we need to worry about anyways.  I think, like many here, that baze and thank would be a good starting combo.  I also think it is time to trade Jeff for some wing help.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Bazemore's likely gone. Somebody is going to overpay just like with Carroll.

This has been explained several times on here and why I can't put out the numbers I know someone eventually will but the situation of DMC and Sap is completely different than Horford and Bazemore because we own Horfords full bird rights therefore we can go over the luxury tax to keep horford after we sign Bazemore which we have enough cap to give him for a higher contract that he's likely to receive. (All to my understanding but I'm pretty sure I'm right without getting into major details)

Now what I don't know is if the Hawks have enough cap to go out and get someone else after signing both Bazemore and horford, someone else can explain that part using the projected cap for next offseason....Anyways The only way the Hawks don't get them back is if they don't want to tie that much money into these two....if they don't feel they are worth it.

 

Ive questioned the Hawks ownership in the past about going over the luxury tax but we have a new owner that has actually already said he would do so if need be.

[JTB]

I know @hawksfanatic is probably sick of repeating this but you all should ask him and maybe he will provide a link to show you how the off season could go down with horford and Bazemore 

i couldn't find the old thread that explained this.

Edited January 10, 2016 by JTB

[gopack10]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

This has been explained several times on here and why I can't put out the numbers I know someone eventually will but the situation of DMC and Sap is completely different than Horford and Bazemore because we own Horfords full bird rights therefore we can go over the luxury tax to keep horford after we sign Bazemore which we have enough cap to give him for a higher contract that he's likely to receive. (All to my understanding but I'm pretty sure I'm right without getting into major details)

Now what I don't know is if the Hawks have enough cap to go out and get someone else after signing both Bazemore and horford, someone else can explain that part using the projected cap for next offseason....Anyways The only way the Hawks don't get them back is if they don't want to tie that much money into these two....if they don't feel they are worth it.

 

Ive questioned the Hawks ownership in the past about going over the luxury tax but we have a new owner that has actually already said he would do so if need be.

You are correct about the situations being different.  It would take a lot to explain but basically we can sign Horford above and beyond the cap no matter what we do with Baze, but it still doesn't change the fact that we would be over the cap in the end.

The cap is supposed to sky rocket next season and again the season after.  Korver's deal is actually lower next year, albeit not by much, and the contracts of Mack and Scott are not guaranteed as they are both team options.  We will have money to spend this offseason even after resigning Horford and Baze if my calculations are correct with the projected cap.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

I know @hawksfanatic is probably sick of repeating this but you all should ask him and maybe he will provide a link to show you how the off season could go down with horford and Bazemore 

i couldn't find the old thread that explained this.

Yeah, but I'm usually grumpy. Plus we have good members on this board who pay attention so I don't have to repeat myself as much anymore.

You're probably referring to this:

Or this:

(Hopefully the new board links are working)

[JETSET]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

This has been explained several times on here and why I can't put out the numbers I know someone eventually will but the situation of DMC and Sap is completely different than Horford and Bazemore because we own Horfords full bird rights therefore we can go over the luxury tax to keep horford after we sign Bazemore which we have enough cap to give him for a higher contract that he's likely to receive. (All to my understanding but I'm pretty sure I'm right without getting into major details)

Now what I don't know is if the Hawks have enough cap to go out and get someone else after signing both Bazemore and horford, someone else can explain that part using the projected cap for next offseason....Anyways The only way the Hawks don't get them back is if they don't want to tie that much money into these two....if they don't feel they are worth it.

 

Ive questioned the Hawks ownership in the past about going over the luxury tax but we have a new owner that has actually already said he would do so if need be.

The owners have never said they would go in to the luxury tax.  They only said they are willing to go over the cap.

[BigDog90]

5 hours ago, gopack10 said:

You are correct about the situations being different.  It would take a lot to explain but basically we can sign Horford above and beyond the cap no matter what we do with Baze, but it still doesn't change the fact that we would be over the cap in the end.

The cap is supposed to sky rocket next season and again the season after.  Korver's deal is actually lower next year, albeit not by much, and the contracts of Mack and Scott are not guaranteed as they are both team options.  We will have money to spend this offseason even after resigning Horford and Baze if my calculations are correct with the projected cap.

I believe Horford's max starts off at 25 mil.  From what I've seen Hawks should have nearly 40 mil in cap space since the cap is supposed to rise to $89 million this summer. My thing is yes, Hawks could afford to give Horford the max and I'm sure Bazemore will get paid well too ($10 million a year min.) but next summer the cap is supposed to rise to $108 million and Teague, Dennis, Millsap (ETO) will be FAs and I could imagine since you got PGs like Reggie Jackson who never was a full-time starter getting 80 million dollar contracts, Teague and Dennis both could make a case of getting even more than that and then you got Millsap whose contract would take advantage of the rising cap, he probably could get 25+ mil a year too, that's a lot of money tied up.

I assume Splitter is not the long term option at backup center for the Hawks since they got Tavares, otherwise his situation will make things complicated because backup centers are getting paid nearly the same salary he's getting now and he was a starter when he got that!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, Lurker said:

Bazemore's defensive dashboard is actually better than Carroll's from last season last time I checked a few games ago, the only difference is Carroll MIGHT be better at post ups but I've watched him get overpowered physically at times. The problems defensively are Kyle Korver and Jeff Teague have been stiffs on that end.

And the interesting thing is the starting lineup with Bazemore is still not positive in +/- and is -1.6 in net rating, the problem I feel is Korver and Bazemore don't play off of each other well at all. The bench lineups are extremely positive over the last 12 games when looking at stats, but stuff like this is just not flying in the playoffs. Especially if one of the bench defenders is out (and with their injury histories...), as it has a counter effect of making Mike Scott unplayable.

Bazemore's likely gone. Somebody is going to overpay just like with Carroll.

He's great with Splitter, Schröder, and Korver.  

Slightly above average with Horford and Sefolosha.

Slightly below average with Millsap.

Bad with Patterson, Teague, and Muscala.  

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01/lineups/2016/

[gopack10]

7 hours ago, BigDog90 said:

I believe Horford's max starts off at 25 mil.  From what I've seen Hawks should have nearly 40 mil in cap space since the cap is supposed to rise to $89 million this summer. My thing is yes, Hawks could afford to give Horford the max and I'm sure Bazemore will get paid well too ($10 million a year min.) but next summer the cap is supposed to rise to $108 million and Teague, Dennis, Millsap (ETO) will be FAs and I could imagine since you got PGs like Reggie Jackson who never was a full-time starter getting 80 million dollar contracts, Teague and Dennis both could make a case of getting even more than that and then you got Millsap whose contract would take advantage of the rising cap, he probably could get 25+ mil a year too, that's a lot of money tied up.

I assume Splitter is not the long term option at backup center for the Hawks since they got Tavares, otherwise his situation will make things complicated because backup centers are getting paid nearly the same salary he's getting now and he was a starter when he got that!

Seeing that Horford max number just reminds me of Joe Johnson's contract.  I don't know that I could pay him that much annually since he'll be 30 coming into next season.  Unless, of course, he signs a Paul Millsap type of deal which is shorter in terms of years.  But I doubt that happens since Millsap's reasoning was the hike in cap for this year and next so he could try and cash in again.  Doubtful that Horford takes a one year deal at his age and then tries again the following year, but I can always ddream.

Splitter's money will come off after next year as I don't think he was ever meant to be a long-term solution, just a stop gap for a few seasons.  

Jeff Teague will be a huge decision if Dennis keeps developing.  He'll only be 29 when his contract is up and would be easier to give a bigger deal to than Al as he is more of a game changer.

[BigDog90]

14 hours ago, gopack10 said:

Seeing that Horford max number just reminds me of Joe Johnson's contract.  I don't know that I could pay him that much annually since he'll be 30 coming into next season.  Unless, of course, he signs a Paul Millsap type of deal which is shorter in terms of years.  But I doubt that happens since Millsap's reasoning was the hike in cap for this year and next so he could try and cash in again.  Doubtful that Horford takes a one year deal at his age and then tries again the following year, but I can always ddream.

Splitter's money will come off after next year as I don't think he was ever meant to be a long-term solution, just a stop gap for a few seasons.  

Jeff Teague will be a huge decision if Dennis keeps developing.  He'll only be 29 when his contract is up and would be easier to give a bigger deal to than Al as he is more of a game changer.

[BigDog90]

It won't let me reply under the quote but I was trying to say: 

I assume it'll be structured like how Marc Gasol's contract is - starts off at 19 mil and eventually gets up to 25 mil in the last year.  I think he's worth it especially with his playing style not based on athleticism, more like fundamentals. 

Yeah if Edy pans out I could see Edy replacing Splitter.

Yeah Bud seems to like Teague a lot but I can't help to think what would ATL do if a team like Philly who is trying to get better quick offers Teague the max next summer, would they match or save their flexibility. Teague's dad and Brett Brown were college roommates.

[Guest]

 That sounds crazy, but an informal poll of a dozen front-office executives on Bazemore’s next average salary drew answers ranging from the mid-level exception, to $12 million, to “who the hell even knows?” 

– via ESPN.com

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 That sounds crazy, but an informal poll of a dozen front-office executives on Bazemore’s next average salary drew answers ranging from the mid-level exception, to $12 million, to “who the hell even knows?” 

– via ESPN.com

Lowe is such a putz. He's predicting ridiculous salaries, which would indicate that next year teams will spend above the minimum salary cap, but also clinging to the notion of a $109m cap in 2017--18 which assumes that teams only spend the minimum salary cap and cause a shortfall! Those are two inconsistent statements! Argh, what a buffoon. And he's supposed to be the educated/analytics savvy writer on the NBA as a whole? Give me a break.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, hawksfanatic said:

Lowe is such a putz. He's predicting ridiculous salaries, which would indicate that next year teams will spend above the minimum salary cap, but also clinging to the notion of a $109m cap in 2017--18 which assumes that teams only spend the minimum salary cap and cause a shortfall! Those are two inconsistent statements! Argh, what a buffoon. And he's supposed to be the educated/analytics savvy writer on the NBA as a whole? Give me a break.

Hey, at least he is twice as likely to be half right!

[AUhawksfan]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 That sounds crazy, but an informal poll of a dozen front-office executives on Bazemore’s next average salary drew answers ranging from the mid-level exception, to $12 million, to “who the hell even knows?” 

– via ESPN.com

I think this has a lot to do with his inconsistencies.  Some nights he looks like a top option on offense, while others he appears reckless and full of bad decisions.  He's definitely taken leaps since we first got him and if we see him continue to put up more 20+ point performances he would definitely be in the higher range.

On a side note I wish we could've gotten Wesley Johnson.  I feel like he would've been a a guy that could thrive and do well in our system as well as be a replacement for Baze in case he does leave.

[benhillboy]

I'll never be fully confident in his handles and shot, although he's had a good groove with the  transition threes he focuses on in practice.  

Bud's reputation as a developer is well known now, I would guess most GMs figure he'd have a steep decline if he doesn't land at a good developmental program with a tough coach (I counted 8 out of 30).  While a very good defender, he isn't as rugged or big as DeMarre.  Being 5 years younger than Junk at the time of FA will account for the few millions based on difference in production I'm sure.