Official Game Thread: Grizzlies at Hawks

[PlayaPat420]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Bud already tried doing defense that doesn't involve trapping and this team flopped horrendously at doing it.

This is Dwight's first year here...  Also, Dennis' first year starting.  Sure... they'll pick it up immediately and run like a fine tuned machine.   Way to stay committed, Budz.  

 

5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Yes, the perimeter players need to play better defense, but nobody is ever going to be able to fight over screens 100% of the time.

You're basically saying the Hawks need to have the following players to be a good team with Dwight:

PG: Mike Conley
SG: Danny Green
SF: Kawhi Leonard

As no one else doesn't successfully fight over screens most of the time.

They rarely fight through and stay with their man on 10% of the screens...  And no, I'm saying that Dwight (at this age) needs to play alongside players who will at least attempt to hold there own on defense against other quality guards not rely on him to cover their backs all the time...he's not Superman anymore. 

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, PlayaPat420 said:

This is Dwight's first year here...  Also, Dennis' first year starting.  Sure... they'll pick it up immediately and run like a fine tuned machine.   Way to stay committed, Budz.  

 

They rarely fight through and stay with their man on 10% of the screens...  And no, I'm saying that Dwight (at this age) needs to play alongside players who will at least attempt to hold there own on defense against other quality guards not rely on him to cover their backs all the time...he's not Superman anymore. 

The truth is, it's unlikely to ever fully work. Straight man isn't going to work if none of your players can fight over screens 100% of the time. The reason for this being a good defense was both a blessing and a risk, because they played Miami with LeBron like defense where they blitzed pick and rolls and trapped constantly, not because any of their players really were THAT athletic on the perimeter.

Playing straight man with guys that aren't strong enough to fight over screens constantly or aren't that athletic is DESTINED TO FLOP. The only thing that would make this really a GOOD defense with Dwight is if everyone was EXTREMELY athletic on the perimeter, EXTREMELY.

[Lurker]

Maybe not extremely, but every player on the perimeter would have to have big athleticism for it to really work on defense with Dwight. As it is, everyone on the perimeter has to have their hand held on defense with their athletic/build issues being disguised by blitzing/trapping and a mobile center that can easily hedge out and back on the PNR.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Oh @Lurker, I try to have your back 'cause you crazy and I like chaos and whatnot, but you go too hard after Dwight/Dennis.  You bounce between the two.  You basically go in on whichever of them has the worse game on a given night. 

As usual when we lose, you can put everybody on the list of "problems".  Last night Howard was down that list so when you highlight him as if EVERYTHING was his fault, it erodes from your credibility.

I think that's what people are having an issue with.  I don't think anyone is saying Howard had a perfect game.

 

 

That's all I read anymore.  Not worth the effort or my time.

I know Dwight has broad shoulders but he wasn't brought here to carry the Hawks. I hate having to defend him because he is not my favorite player, but it's assinine to lay ALL the blame at his feet.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

1. First of all, it seems a prevailing opinion on the Hawks is that they go as Dennis and Howard go.  In order for us to win, they both have to be solid-to-good.  If we get that in a playoff series, we'll advance.  If not, we won't.  Seems pretty spot-on to me.

2. If anyone ever sees Muscala lean forward from his bench seat to do anything other than moose-goggles, a breathalizer should be administered to Budz immediately!  He cost us that game.  As soon as he came in the defense just got gashed.  Offensively?  Is there any reason to go into that?

c. Great to see Printz logging minutes and contributing.  He's a typical rookie so there were some mistakes in there.  Unfortunately, since we refused to play him earlier in the season, he hasn't been able to work these mistakes out.  #ThanksBudz

4. TradeBaze especially if his contract gets in the way of re-signing THJ

To your point . . .

Hawks are 15 - 4 when Dennis scores 22 points or more . . . 4 - 10 when he scores 11 points or less

Hawks are 11 - 4 when Dwight grabs 6 offensive rebounds or more . . .  10 - 17 when he grabs 3 offensive boards or less

 

So we need Dennis scoring, and Howard getting on the offensive glass, and putting the ball back in the hole.

 

The big question is . . .  why does this team play so poorly at home?   Too comfortable?  Too many distractions?  Blame the "adult entertainment" in the city, in which a few players are fond of?

 

The Joe Johnson era teams were schizophrenic, because they were normally terrible on the road.  But the one thing those teams did, was put on a good show at Philips.  This team is the exact opposite.  Their biggest wins have come on the road, which will bode well in the playoffs.  But they'll drop a home game vs anybody.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 Their biggest wins have come on the road, which will bode well in the playoffs.  .

I hope so @TheNorthCydeRises.  I was pissed initially last night because we had a chance to pull with in 1 game of Toronto but the way we have played at home this season - it doesn't matter.  Like you said we might be better served playing on the road.

[Vol4ever]

I watched the game last night and we just didnt play well.  I will continue to say when the Hawks pass the ball we get good shots.  We have Dennis and Sap trying to go one on one and that is hurting this team.  One time in particular in the 3rd when nobody could buy a shot Dennis was dribbling around the perimeter and Dwight had his man locked under the basket and Dennis never looked inside.  Our best shooters are Calderon and Ersan, everybody else is just streak shooters.  

[Lurker]

The *****give the ball to Dwight***** over and over game already totally flopped earlier in the season and caused the 1-10 stretch. The choice to ignore Dwight helped a lot.

[Lurker]

When they try to force it to Dwight more than they do, they turn it over 18-20 times and throw the rest of the team out of sync. If you want to see Dwight *********get the ball more*********, then you want to see Calderon start, because the rest of the guards on the team are young and don't know how to throw good post entry passes. It's not going to get better with any of them at all.

But realistically, this is who Dwight is, a 5th option player that gets two post touches a game, and the rest of his paint touches are spoonfed for him.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Lurker

[Guest]

Sigh.  I tried, @Lurker  You may be beyond repair.  I so sad.

[Gray Mule]

Dang.  Jump on Lurker all you want to.  Ignore the facts.

D8 sits out a game to rest and the Hawks walk away with a win on the road.

A few days later, with Atlanta at home, the same team is our guest and we

play D8 a lot.

Now, we are a different team and have a different strategy.  Our visitor

spoils everything for us as we are unable to be competitive with D8

leading us.  Everything is different and nothing works.  Why?

For one thing, shots for the Hawks refuse to fall, especially in the

third quarter when our opponent runs away and hides.  Turnovers?

You betcha.  Long rebounds - short rebounds - doesn't matter.  Hawks

miss on most of them.

Was it the fault of D8 or was it because of our planning and the planning

of our opponent.  Announcers said they heard that closing the lane to

Dennis was a high priority.  They apparently adjusted and we didn't

because, in the third quarter, after half time, Hawks sure stank, didn't they.

Three point shots can mean make or break for any team.  I haven't checked

the box score but usually, when we have a loss, this battle is also a lost cause

for Atlanta.

I know we didn't hit every free throw.  Imagine that!

Lurker, know that you are not alone.  I know that some people live by this:

"Don't try to convince me with the facts.  I've already made up my mind."

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Dang.  Jump on Lurker all you want to.  Ignore the facts.

D8 sits out a game to rest and the Hawks walk away with a win on the road.

A few days later, with Atlanta at home, the same team is our guest and we

play D8 a lot.

Now, we are a different team and have a different strategy.  Our visitor

spoils everything for us as we are unable to be competitive with D8

leading us.  Everything is different and nothing works.  Why?

For one thing, shots for the Hawks refuse to fall, especially in the

third quarter when our opponent runs away and hides.  Turnovers?

You betcha.  Long rebounds - short rebounds - doesn't matter.  Hawks

miss on most of them.

Was it the fault of D8 or was it because of our planning and the planning

of our opponent.  Announcers said they heard that closing the lane to

Dennis was a high priority.  They apparently adjusted and we didn't

because, in the third quarter, after half time, Hawks sure stank, didn't they.

Three point shots can mean make or break for any team.  I haven't checked

the box score but usually, when we have a loss, this battle is also a lost cause

for Atlanta.

I know we didn't hit every free throw.  Imagine that!

Lurker, know that you are not alone.  I know that some people live by this:

"Don't try to convince me with the facts.  I've already made up my mind."

Wait, Mule.  No one is holding Howard blameless.  We're just rejecting the notion that it's ALL ON HIM.  That's what Lurk would have us to believe.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

with D8 leading us. 

uuuummm....Dwight is not leading us (and anyone thinking that is what he was brought here to do is mistaken)  - that falls to Millsap 1st, Dennis 2nd - they were both horrible in the 3rd taking some really bad ugly shots and turning the ball over.  In that 3rd quarter which was our demise, this is what our starters did:

Millsap 0-5, 1 technical, missed free throws, turned the ball over twice (I think)

Dennis 1-4

Baze 1-2

Both Thabo and Dwight had ZERO shot attempts.

 

[AUhawksfan]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

The choice to ignore Dwight helped a lot.

Maybe you could do the same.

[rd79]

I don't get how some want to blame Dwight. I think there are some things he could do better but how should he win the game when Dennis wouldn't even hit a barn and TJH goes 2/9 from three?

[benhillboy]

To be fair @Lurker and @NBASupes aren't the resident Dwight-Bashers here (raises hand). I just don't do it much now because he's doing as well, sometimes better than I could expect and there's years of my posts killing him when he was in his "prime" and was the top fantasy get on this board with CP3.  I try not to beat the dead horse (or choke the dead chicken in @Spud2Nique case). 

Edited March 17, 2017 by benhillboy

[Lurker]

If Dwight were actually giving effort, I wouldn't be saying anything, but he's been putting up a pitiful performance since the break. He has regressed to all of his bad tendencies.

It was good for a while, but since the break, it hasn't been.

[Marvin24Williams]

dwights fault that our perimeter players can't stay in front of their own man

dwights fault that our perimeter players have no idea how to throw a post entry pass

dwights fault for our offense when you have Schröder, thjr, and millsap putting up putrid shooting numbers

give me a break. don't get me wrong, he's definitely not blameless when we lose games. however, it's just so damn pathetic that after every single loss we hear the same damn thing about how dwight was the problem