Collins ain't fixing this

[macdaddy]

23 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Lot of posters that predicted a low win total for us were completely and utterly bailed out by the Collins suspension. Now they have the audacity to come back and act like that was a great prediction on their part. Kind of comedic to me.

[turnermx]

5 hours ago, High5 said:

Unfortunately/fortunately, we’re not going to finish with top 3 odds. Once Collins comes back, combined with the softer schedule and the rookies (hopefully) progressing, we’ll probably play .500+ basketball.

But we can still hope for some sweet lottery luck.

24-28 would give the team 30 wins after Collins comes back, exceeding last year, if the team is 6-24 when he returns. a .500 record 32 wins. I think I predicted 41-41. if John hadn't been suspended 25 games that may have been the case but since he was suspended. the team has a chance to get luck in the lottery and be right at where Hawks analysts predicted (according to Schlenk) at about 31 wins. that would take 25-27 in the last 52 with John back.

[turnermx]

54 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Lot of posters that predicted a low win total for us were completely and utterly bailed out by the Collins suspension. Now they have the audacity to come back and act like that was a great prediction on their part. Kind of comedic to me.

Agreed 100%. ANY team after it played 5 games to lose availability for nearly a third of the season a core player and near All Star like John WILL suffer a TON more losses.  This is a (nearly) 20 10 guy who was also bringing it defensively. It had a domino effect on the entire lineup.  Challenge anyone to name just one team that could survive something like this and not be a bottom dweller in no time in that scenario. Even include the Lakers. If they lost AD or Lebron for 25 of the first 30 this season.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Lot of posters that predicted a low win total for us were completely and utterly bailed out by the Collins suspension. Now they have the audacity to come back and act like that was a great prediction on their part. Kind of comedic to me.

I predicted a 36.5% winning %.  We are currently sitting at 22.2%.  I don't think of the injury as a bailout but more an examination of how good the non-JC roster is.  Pretty terrible.  My original 30 win total was based on the weakness at center and the youth of our team causing us to struggle more than many expected.  I think that part of my prediction actually has played out so far so not apologizing for that.  

We need JC back badly.  We will miss Huerter if he can't stay on the floor, but I think we'll get back close to where a healthy 2019-20 Hawks team should be when Collins returns.  It is just that I think that is still a lottery team.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I’m just saying. Nobody can predict what record we would have had with Collins. We could be 15-12...16-11...or not that much better than we are now. I tend to think the former. He was arguably a top 2 player for us as far as production goes so he was a big part of it. 
 

  

[turnermx]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m just saying. Nobody can predict what record we would have had with Collins. We could be 15-12...16-11...or not that much better than we are now. I tend to think the former. He was arguably a top 2 player for us as far as production goes so he was a big part of it. 
 

  

I have to admit, I was one of the few that had rose- colored glasses on when John got suspended. I predicted a much better record during that time off. John's return allows Jabari to go back to 6th man providing big scoring punch for the 2nd unit, never have to rely on VC at PF, gives Trae a super roll man and screener, etc

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, turnermx said:

I have to admit, I was one of the few that had rose- colored glasses on when John got suspended. I predicted a much better record during that time off. John's return allows Jabari to go back to 6th man providing big scoring punch for the 2nd unit, never have to rely on VC at PF, gives Trae a super roll man and screener, etc

Ya the one trade off with the Collins suspension was the expanded roles for everyone which should pay dividends in the long run. Like you mentioned, Jabari off the bench, now that can be explosive .

[macdaddy]

32 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya the one trade off with the Collins suspension was the expanded roles for everyone which should pay dividends in the long run. Like you mentioned, Jabari off the bench, now that can be explosive .

A vet guard that can handle the ball and shoot to me is the most glaring need right now.  Even with Heurter but esp. with Heurter not being 100% reliable. 

[Spud2nique]

41 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

A vet guard that can handle the ball and shoot to me is the most glaring need right now.  Even with Heurter but esp. with Heurter not being 100% reliable. 

Ya backup sg, a big girthy center, and better more hungry vets. Lol. A big wishlist for Xmas I know  

[bleachkit]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Lot of posters that predicted a low win total for us were completely and utterly bailed out by the Collins suspension. Now they have the audacity to come back and act like that was a great prediction on their part. Kind of comedic to me.

And if we continue our abysmal play with Collins back what will you say then?

[terrell]

20 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

And if we continue our abysmal play with Collins back what will you say then?

It might take him a few games or more to get back to normal. But there's no way we wont be a better team with Collins than without. How much better, we shall see.......

Edited December 17, 2019 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

And if we continue our abysmal play with Collins back what will you say then?

Tank Baby!!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Tank Baby!!!

That's sad if that's what we do now.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

That's sad if that's what we do now.

If we are ABYSMAL (bleackit's word) WITH Collins, I don't see much of a choice.

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

And if we continue our abysmal play with Collins back what will you say then?

I’ll say we didn’t have him for the first part of the season to build chemistry and momentum.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Lot of posters that predicted a low win total for us were completely and utterly bailed out by the Collins suspension. Now they have the audacity to come back and act like that was a great prediction on their part. Kind of comedic to me.

Do you see the title of this thread? Collins ain't fixing this nor was he making us a winning franchise. Healthy or not, suspension or no suspension, this is not a winning roster.

We are Trae Young, a couple promising rookies, and a band of misfits currently without JC. Even if we add in Collins win shares from last season up to this point to the current record, we're still have a sub .500 record. We still don't have a starting center or a backup PG which is the two biggest glaring weaknesses... and neither issues can Collins give us help for. Jabari has stepped up in Collins' absence and has basically matched JC's production from last season. Jabari will not be putting up these numbers from the bench. All Collins coming back means is that we'll see less of VC at PF and the small-ball offense and we won't be losing games by 30. I'm not trying to discount what John Collins means for this team and he is my favorite Hawk and I see him as a key player, but he and Trae are not enough to make this a winning team. We need so much more than what we have and those two are able to give...

Our defense is atrocious and it starts from the back court. How many layups did Indiana have against us last time we played them? We give up nearly 52 ppg in the paint (27th in the league)... in an era of the NBA where teams shoot primarily threes. I'm tired of seeing Damian Jones too. A center that can't rebound and plays defense likes his feet are stuck in cement. We need production from that position.

Teams have been doubling Trae every game because he is the primary and only ball handler that the Hawks have. Huerter coming back has lessen this burden somewhat, but he plays from the bench and does not give us what Trae does. No one else has the explosiveness or dribbling ability that Trae provides for the Hawks. Collins primarily gets his scoring from second chance opportunities, running the floor, and dunks. He's not a guy that beats you one-on-one nor is he a spot-up shooter. He plays cleanup.

I will start believing in this roster when we draft our backup PG and if Cam or Hunter develops into a consistent secondary scoring option and we fill the holes on this roster. I am willing to give the rooks time to become our Thompson... which allow Collins to be our Draymond.

[terrell]

Yeah man. Collins will help with rebounding and scoring, but We're going nowhere until we sign a backup pg, some real NBA shooters, and a rim protector.

Edited December 17, 2019 by terrell

[Gray Mule]

Collins is not all that the Hawks need.  He is, however, needed.  A lot.  We all remember his dunks when he gets a lob from Trae.  He is more than this, however.  Remember his three ball?  Not fantastic, but he can make them.  Rebounds?  Yep, he got some of those.  He makes the Hawks better.  Defense?  He's not completely lost on defense.

Some of those games that Atlanta came close, but lost, might have been a win with a healthy Collins.  When the Hawks had Huerter out injured and Collins suspended, the already not great Atlanta team were missing two fifth of their starting five.  

We know that Collins isn't going to fix everything.  We aren't that dumb.  But, we also know that our beloved Hawks are going to be so much better when he comes back.  That is, if we don't have another piece or two missing, due to injuries.  We hope not.

I believe Haws now have only 3 more games before the December 23rd return date.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[macdaddy]

It's like no one has ever heard the saying "Rome wasn't built in a day"

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

It's like no one has ever heard the saying "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

With all of the bricks that these guys shoot from the perimeter, I bet they could build Rome in 18 hours.