Collins ain't fixing this

[Spud2nique]

19-21 wins is what I’m counting.

19-36

20-35

21-34 (dang this is taking a look at our schedule and being pretty optimistic).

Ya....I ahh, I’m gonna pass on this bet. I’m sad to do it though.

[BudBall]

Instead of 6 wins, we would have 8 with Collins. We would still be one of the worst teams in the league, the first couple games playing good defense was a fluke.

[AtlHomer]

10 hours ago, BudBall said:

Instead of 6 wins, we would have 8 with Collins. We would still be one of the worst teams in the league, the first couple games playing good defense was a fluke.

Count me among those that was fooled by the defense we played in first few games.  I thought we turned a corner as a team as we don't have a scoring problem but a problem stopping other teams from scoring.

I don't understand how we allow so many non contested drives to the basket, especially on PnR plays.  The body language of the players does not look good when this happens.  I can't imagine this is part of the plan the team envisioned going into this season.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, AtlHomer said:

Count me among those that was fooled by the defense we played in first few games.  I thought we turned a corner as a team as we don't have a scoring problem but a problem stopping other teams from scoring.

I don't understand how we allow so many non contested drives to the basket, especially on PnR plays.  The body language of the players does not look good when this happens.  I can't imagine this is part of the plan the team envisioned going into this season.

YPJ

[Gray Mule]

Thanks, Hawks..  Remember that 13 win season?  It's beginning to look better and better.

No defense.  Repeat.  No defense.  Hawks score 120 and that's not near enough.  Game is not even close.  A blowout loss when we score 120!  Scoring inside.  Scoring outside.  Hawks have no idea how to even slow it down.  How bad can it get?  

NO DEFENSE !!

[NBASupes]

This team even without John is better than that 13 win team but that 13 win team had one thing going for it. An extremely weak NBA. In today's NBA, this team is horrendous 

[Thomas]

58 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

How bad can it get?  

Knicks scored one of the biggest point totals they have had in a game in decades last night. Pretty doggone bad right there. Ugh.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Thomas said:

Knicks scored one of the most point totals they have had in a game in decades last night. Pretty doggone bad right there.

Ya I switched over to the Knick telecast and they said this is the most point the Knicks have scored through 3 quarters in 11 years.  

[Sothron]

I think they said Knicks scored most posts in a game since 1980. I've been a fan longer than anyone here except for @Gray Mule and I can't remember the Hawks being this bad on defense. Maybe he can remember a Hawks teams worse than this on defense but I don't think there was.

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I think they said Knicks scored most posts in a game since 1980. I've been a fan longer than anyone here except for @Gray Mule and I can't remember the Hawks being this bad on defense. Maybe he can remember a Hawks teams worse than this on defense but I don't think there was.

2000? Rider, Jimmy Jax and Jason Terry

 

[hawkman]

18 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

2000? Rider, Jimmy Jax and Jason Terry

 

Yeah, I don't think people remember just how bad the Hawks were in the early 2000's.

[Sothron]

48 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

2000? Rider, Jimmy Jax and Jason Terry

 

Were they actually worse than this team on defense? What's our defense averaging now, 120 a game?

[High5]

This is the worst Hawks defense by defensive rating (114.5). Last year was the 2nd worst (113.9) and 1989-90 was the 3rd worst (111.9). Cleveland (115.3) and Washington (117.4) play even less defense than we do. 

All-time garbage defense rankings:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&year_min=1947&year_max=2020&lg_id=NBA&order_by=def_rtg

[High5]

15 hours ago, BudBall said:

Instead of 6 wins, we would have 8 with Collins. 

There's no way you can say that with any certainty. Having a fringe All-Star in the game for 30+ minutes could have made the difference in several of these losses. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

This is the worst Hawks defense by defensive rating (114.5). Last year was the 2nd worst (113.9) and 1989-90 was the 3rd worst (111.9). Cleveland (115.3) and Washington (117.4) play even less defense than we do. 

All-time garbage defense rankings:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&year_min=1947&year_max=2020&lg_id=NBA&order_by=def_rtg

The MOV slider on that link is interesting too.  Shows that not only do we have a poor defense and losing games, but also losing them by a wide margin. As GrayMule said, 120 points should be enough offense to win a game.

Another thing I found interesting is that Cleveland is in the same boat as we are.  Poor defense and losing by a wide margin.  We play them on December 23rd... the same game we get Collins back. I'll be taking that game for a grain of salt!

[macdaddy]

38 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

The MOV slider on that link is interesting too.  Shows that not only do we have a poor defense and losing games, but also losing them by a wide margin. As GrayMule said, 120 points should be enough offense to win a game.

Another thing I found interesting is that Cleveland is in the same boat as we are.  Poor defense and losing by a wide margin.  We play them on December 23rd... the same game we get Collins back. I'll be taking that game for a grain of salt!

I'm certainly not going to say that defense isn't a huge problem but we went long stretches in the first half without scoring.  The lack of scoring put a ton of pressure on our defense in transition which we can't handle.    Our strategy is built on scoring a lot and defending the half court.  When we're missing a lot of shots and turning the ball over then the whole thing implodes.

[AHF]

19 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

19-21 wins is what I’m counting.

19-36

20-35

21-34 (dang this is taking a look at our schedule and being pretty optimistic).

Ya....I ahh, I’m gonna pass on this bet. I’m sad to do it though.

Looking like NostrodaSpud after last night.

[macdaddy]

I've been ragging on Turner and Crabbe but at this point I'd go back to Turner instead of Bembry.  It's not like Turner shoots worse than Bembry.  Let's make a change and see

I'd let Turner have minutes as the backup PG rather than Heurter.   Sit Bembry.  Start Len for better defense (did i just type that?).  Let Bruno backup Jabari (i know there's a whole thread on it).  cut down on Carter's minutes some.

[Thomas]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

2000? Rider, Jimmy Jax and Jason Terry

 

Such a horrific memory there.

[NBASupes]

56 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm certainly not going to say that defense isn't a huge problem but we went long stretches in the first half without scoring.  The lack of scoring put a ton of pressure on our defense in transition which we can't handle.    Our strategy is built on scoring a lot and defending the half court.  When we're missing a lot of shots and turning the ball over then the whole thing implodes.

Our offense has been awful all year. Preseason included. Defense was promising till Collins got suspended and Len and Cam moved to the pine