Donovan Mitchell is why you don't pass on Obi Toppin

[Marvin24Williams]

I’m not a fan of him at all. His defense is absolutely brutal. All his limitations on that end are only going to be amplified in the faster, stronger NBA. Just don’t like non defending bigs - especially when you have someone as exploitable as Trae on the perimeter. Those two are going to be ripped to shreds on defense. Teams are going to pick and roll them to death.

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This sound eerily familiar....sounds like the Bagley stuff from 2 years ago?  Even down to trading Collins to get Bagley, or pairing Collins and Bagley. 

 

I was pushing tirelessly for us to draft Doncic near the draft date and on the day of the draft and said he's a PG. So if you want to use Bagley to besmirch me, use Doncic, Reddish and Zion to praise me. Remember how much I was pushing Zion is the top overall prospect when KB21 was like, he's garbage. 

I pushed for Reddish harder last year than Bagley. 

I feel like you are using this to disrespect me more than accept the fact that I have a great feel on these things. 

Let's make things clear, Bagley killed JC for Team USA last summer. He also outplayed Bam and JJJ as well. Coaches and players atest to it but when you miss more time in your first two years than Bowie and Oden, that's problematic. 

Availability is the most important skill there is and Bagley is dead last at it for his draft class. I still have unbridle hope he can put it all together but for a player where potential is key in his draft position and development, he needs PT more than say, Luka. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Marvin24Williams said:

I’m not a fan of him at all. His defense is absolutely brutal. All his limitations on that end are only going to be amplified in the faster, stronger NBA. Just don’t like non defending bigs - especially when you have someone as exploitable as Trae on the perimeter. Those two are going to be ripped to shreds on defense. Teams are going to pick and roll them to death.

It's not that easy to PnR teams to death in 2020. This is not 1999 anymore or else we would be 50+ wins every year and teams would do it to us with Trae/John religiously as well. You have a lot of defensive schemes. We gotta take a broad approach to defense in 2020. This is not the 90s where personnel was a vast issue when it comes to schemes. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I also was very bullish on Morant. He's a freak athlete.

Same, and it's easy to say that right now but I had battles on RealGM about Morant. There was a lot of guys who did not like him. Felt his competition was weak. Didn't think he would translate. Couldn't shoot. Etc. 

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 Remember how much I was pushing Zion is the top overall prospect when KB21 was like, he's garbage. 

 

You mean this guy?

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

You mean this guy?

Zion even madly out of shape posted a 1.4 WAR in just 668 mins. That would be 2nd on our squad for players who played mins for the Hawks in 2019-20. Lil Zatarain might eat up a buffet but he's a monster on the court. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You mean this guy?

No, he means this guy ...

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I was pushing tirelessly for us to draft Doncic near the draft date and on the day of the draft and said he's a PG. So if you want to use Bagley to besmirch me......

No besmirching and it's quite ok to change your my mind, but you too often lash out at posters that have opposing views. 

Don't worry though, you'll have ample time from now until the draft to push tirelessly for another player besides Toppin closer to the draft just like you did with Bagley.

[bleachkit]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

And you would've been roasted by BSPN .. then, after a few injury-plagued years, they would have to admit you were right.  I said it before and I'll say it again, ligaments don't care if it's 300lbs of fat or 300lbs of muscle.

Players always say, it's not going up, it's coming down. If you can jump 40 inches that means you have to land from 40 inches. Gravity takes a toll for sure.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No besmirching and it's quite ok to change your my mind, but you too often lash out at posters that have opposing views. 

Don't worry though, you'll have ample time from now until the draft to push tirelessly for another player besides Toppin closer to the draft just like you did with Bagley.

Haha. cute. 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Zion even madly out of shape posted a 1.4 WAR in just 668 mins. That would be 2nd on our squad for players who played mins for the Hawks in 2019-20. Lil Zatarain might eat up a buffet but he's a monster on the court. 

Sorry man, I'm calling Shawn Kemp on Zion. I see him eating his way out of the league later on in life. He's a few injuries away from Frankenstein scars. If God wanted men to hoop at 300 lbs pounds he would have made shoes that could handle it.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Sorry man, I'm calling Shawn Kemp on Zion. I see him eating his way out of the league later on in life. He's a few injuries away from Frankenstein scars. If God wanted men to hoop at 300 lbs pounds he would have made shoes that could handle it.

I can't lie and say I am not worried either. He's the face of the league right now and eating his way out like no one's business. 

[bird_dirt]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I was pushing tirelessly for us to draft Doncic near the draft date and on the day of the draft and said he's a PG. So if you want to use Bagley to besmirch me, use Doncic, Reddish and Zion to praise me. Remember how much I was pushing Zion is the top overall prospect when KB21 was like, he's garbage. 

I pushed for Reddish harder last year than Bagley. 

I feel like you are using this to disrespect me more than accept the fact that I have a great feel on these things. 

Let's make things clear, Bagley killed JC for Team USA last summer. He also outplayed Bam and JJJ as well. Coaches and players atest to it but when you miss more time in your first two years than Bowie and Oden, that's problematic. 

Availability is the most important skill there is and Bagley is dead last at it for his draft class. I still have unbridle hope he can put it all together but for a player where potential is key in his draft position and development, he needs PT more than say, Luka. 

No besmirchment intended, but you were driving that Bagley train hot and heavy at full stream for months leading up to the draft, posting exactly like you are now with Toppin.

It's okay to love players. It's okay to miss on players, too. But if you aggressively push back on posters who disagree with your opinions, you gotta know ppl are gonna pull out those receipts. The bigger things are built up, the harder they fall.

But maybe we need to just ignore all your Obi posts and wait until the night before the draft to see who you officially endorse?

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I can't lie and say I am not worried either. He's the face of the league right now and eating his way out like no one's business. 

Wrong Doncic will be the face of the league.  

[marco102]

17 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Wrong Doncic will be the face of the league.  

Wrong, Trae Young will be the face of the league. 

Along with Doncic, JT, D. Mitchell, Giannis and a ton of other stars.

LBJ is the no question face of the league right now though.

Edited September 1, 2020 by marco102

[nathan2331]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This is where you are extremely wrong. We put a lot of responsibility on our bigs which is why Dedmon fit Atlanta and struggled to fit Sacramento where it's all about pace, finishing, and covering ground which is a team that would be a good fit for Grant. We haven't ran an low responsibility based system for bigs since Lon Kruger. Woody wasn't big on offensive responsibility based system but defensively, he had the most advanced system which is why it was a natural fit for Bud. 

You keep trying to argue something that isn't there. He's not a good fit at all. He would be a waste for us. Teams like Sacramento and OKC fits him fine, teams like us, no. Reactive players look like shit in our system. We are a proactive system for bigs. 

I don't really see them as a frontcourt fit outside of situational moments. We already got centers. I do see Toppin being a much better fit with Capela than Collins due to them taking the same spots on offense while Toppin doesn't take Capela spots like JC does. On defense, both are damn near the same to Capela so it's not much of a difference. 

I don't know why you are so against Toppin. He's an offensive monster and fits our system perfectly. He would be a backup this year anyway and he gives us protection for JC. A freaking no brainer. 

I've been watching the same games you do. Our bigs literally need to be able to take a dribble and pass. There's nothing difficult about their role in the regular offensive flow. How is it that Grant couldn't fit, but is fine in two other offenses, one of which has for sure has more off-ball motion in Denver.

While I don't watch many Nuggets games, I've seen some, and there's nothing about Grant that makes me think he couldn't play in our offense. The reads he'd have to make in Atlanta are not difficult. And while he's a bit error-prone it's not like he can't handle the ball at all.

I don't even like Grant like that, you're just the only person I've seen who seems insulted I'm even suggesting his presence on the team and I don't get it. I'm suggesting him as a backup, not a foundational starting piece over one of our core players.

And I don't hate Toppin, honestly if I was Minnesota's GM I'd take him #1 considering who they have on their roster and the fact that all of these prospects are more or less on a similar tier to me. All these guys are so flawed in their individual ways I'd absolutely draft for fit and future projections of their roster. That's where I take issue with Toppin on the Hawks.

[Vol4ever]

17 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Wrong, Trae Young will be the face of the league. 

Along with Doncic, JT, D. Mitchell, Giannis and a ton of other stars.

LBJ is the no question face of the league right now though.

If you had to pick one with no bias who would it be in the future?

[nathan2331]

10 hours ago, thecampster said:

You see that's crazy to me.....Edwards is the one guy I don't want in the draft because I see him as redundant and in need of serious polish.

For me it would go Wiseman, Ball, Toppin at the top 3. Edwards is more of a 6-8 player to me. He is far too ball dominant and requires a high volume of shots. Edwards next to Sexton in Cleveland is the perfect fit to me. Someone who could take 10 touches a game out of his hand and iso.

Edwards really, really needs to spend a year working on drawing contact. That is where his money would be made at the next level.

I think Edwards will take time too, but his role at Georgia is not what I envision for him in the NBA. He's proven he can't be the primary option on a good offense, but in Atlanta he wouldn't ever have to be. We've already got Trae, so what we need is a complementary ball handler. 

Maybe we have that guy in already with Reddish or Huerter but in my opinion Huerter is not a starter (bad defense, lack of aggression) and Reddish could take a while anyways. Edwards in his first year or so may not contribute much but we don't need him too. In the future though, if he commits himself, I think he has all tools needed to be one of the best SGs in the league.

Even his defense, I think was a result of playing on a losing team he could do whatever he wanted on. Maybe it's something that won't change, but I think with time and coaching he will lock in and play with effort conducive to winning.

Wiseman is a good prospect, but he can only play center and I'm not sure if he's skilled enough to stay on the court come playoff time. I don't have an opinion either way, but he'd be fine.

Ball I want nothing to do with. He needs to go to a team that will put the ball in his hands Day 1 and let him figure it out through the mistakes. I don't think he can actually shoot, so I'm not interested seeing him learnhow to as an off-ball player.

Toppin like I said should go #1. I don't hate him in Atlanta, I just don't think him and Collins work until one of them either bulk up or learn how to stay in front of quicker players. Being a great offensive team that can't force stops is not a winning formula.

[bleachkit]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I can't lie and say I am not worried either. He's the face of the league right now and eating his way out like no one's business. 

He's not eating his way out. Pelicans have no doubt provided him trainers and personal chefs. He's just naturally big. 

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Toppin like I said should go #1. I don't hate him in Atlanta, I just don't think him and Collins work until one of them either bulk up or learn how to stay in front of quicker players. Being a great offensive team that can't force stops is not a winning formula.

Even for 10 minutes a game?