2020-21 The Current Ask Supes

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I have a lot of Blockbusters to talk about and yes, Atlanta made an offer but it's not going to get Beal. 

I don't have a massive amount but I got heavy hitters. I'll just do the Hawks and Heat for Beal. 

Heat have offered Herro, salary fillers like Iggy/Dragic and a bevy of 1sts and pick swaps. I was told this was declined. 

Atlanta offered 1 of (Hunter, Reddish, Huerter, and Okongwu), 1 of (Gallo or Bogi), and a bevy of 1sts and pick swaps like Miami. 

Golden State have offered 7 and 14. They did not offer Wiseman for Beal. 

The big issue is, for all who keeps saying Beal has to make the decision, Beal has made a decision. He wants to stay in Washington but doesn't want to sign an EXT. Also, as I've said, he's willing to resign to a team of his choice but who knows what team that is if he's telling Washington he wants to stay. 

The team I am hearing in the lead for Beal is also in the lead for Ben Simmons. 

 

Did Wash decline the Hawks offer or do they just like another offer better? Or are they still mulling it over?.

[capstone21]

I’m glad they said no because it’s way too much imo 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Did Wash decline the Hawks offer or do they just like another offer better? Or are they still mulling it over?.

Yes/No. They didn't decline it but they want a better offer. At the moment, it doesn't seem like Atlanta is willing to meet them where they want. I've been doing a major project but I'll explain shortly. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Yeah, this is how I read it too. The Hawks gave them the option to pick 1 of those players from each group. 1 from group A of Hunter, Cam, Huerter, or OO. And then 1 from group B of Bogi and Gallo (likely in order to make salaries match for trade). And left the choice up to WAS which two players they wanted, 1 from group A and 1 more from group B. 

I don't exactly like the trade, and definitely don't like including Hunter or Cam in the offer, but you aren't getting Beal for less I guess. For people bagging on Beal's defense I think that's overblown. He's shown in the past he can be a very good defender, he just doesn't do it anymore. I'd imagine a lot of that is due to, as mentioned, partially coaching. But probably more to do with how much of the offensive burden he has to shoulder. People seem to forget that defense takes a LOT of energy to sustain; and so does being the bellcow on offense if you are that guy. It's darn near impossible to keep up the energy to do both consistently well over the course of a long season and then into the postseason. 

IF we were to trade for Beal I would imagine that would come with some stipulations that Beal would transfer some of his energy expenditure away from offense, especially with Trae here to shoulder that burden, and spend more on defense like he used to do. 

Still don't exactly like the trade, but you've always got to look at reasons why something would be discussed by someone like Schlenk who we all feel knows what he's doing. 

Pretty much this. One of the 4. One of the 2. Picks is what it is. 

[NBASupes]

Here's the BIG news: 

Toronto Raptors who I told you had a plan to get Lillard and Simmons plan is getting more concrete now. They want Beal and Simmons to join O.G. and Vanvleet. Lillard, as I mentioned before will not be traded. 

They are targeting a deal with GS which gives GS 7th and 14th overall as well as Wiggins. GS gets Siakam. 

They are also targeting a deal with Wiggins/4th overall for Beal. I was told this is extremely attractive to WAS who wants at least one potential All Star on a rookie contract and Suggs or Mobley is on the top of their list. I actually think Atlanta and Miami offers a lot more, especially Atlanta but it seems they really want one of these rookies from the top 4 of this class. 

I am also told they are looking to trade 7th/14th overall/TPE for Ben Simmons.

They have to get rid of Malachi Flynn to make the money work and are targeting a couple of 2nds and someone who can take him with a TPE. I am told Atlanta is very interested. This is massive news to Hawk fans as this one could possibly go down. 

Philly is targeting Lonzo Ball on a SnT with NO using the TPE to take on his salary. They are also planning on keeping 7th/14th overall to build around as well as 28th overall. Philly wants to build up their bench and get potential fits around Embiid. I am told Kuminga could be a Sixer. 

No new update on McCollum. 

I was told OKC didn't offer Shai and 6 for Cade. 

I was also told for HOU to get Cade, it will cost them a pick swap and another lightly protected 1st. I was told, HOU is out on moving up unless the cost is significantly more reasonable. They are targeting what DAL paid ATL for Luka/Trae. DET is targeting a much greater 

HOU and NY are getting closer to moving up for a higher pick but the cost is too great at this time for both teams. 

Atlanta is aggressively targeting backup PGs on the trade block. Bruno and Dunn have also been offered with picks. 

Atlanta focus is SGs in the draft which is where the most talent is in this draft. Makes me think that Atlanta is thinking about moving Kevin or Bogi sooner than later or maybe just having a backup just in case they leave. There are players Atlanta loves but they don't expect that player to be there at 20. If there, Atlanta could draft in a different direction.

I can confirm, Cam Reddish WON'T be traded for a pick. A star, possibly but he's extremely valuable to them and maybe too valuable to where he's not traded at all which is personally what I hope happens. 

I was told Atlanta is willing to move up or down if the price is right. As of right now, it seems like they will stick where they are.

Atlanta expects Dunn to opt in later today from what I've gotten so far. 

The Lakers are targeting a Westbrook trade. If it falls through, they are targeting Hield but they want a PG who can create for others. I don't love the fit but for some reason, LA does. 

The Lakers think they will get a lot of guys to take nothing to play for them. Maybe they are right. Toronto is banking on that as well. 

I really think Klutch is masterminding this trade deadline. It seems like some of these deals are nearly done deals. 

Not too many teams willing to take on a bad contract, Memphis doing so just speaks volume that they felt they needed more premium picks as a franchise. 

I am not sure why Toronto is going so far in. I am really not sure at all. 

I am told Atlanta and Toronto is coveting Daniel Theis as a FA. I am also told Atlanta likes Nerlens Noel as well. Before OO injury, there was no mention of a center outside of the min but the names are actually decent centers. Not the Dedmon/Len types. 

I was told Atlanta still wants to resign JC. Nothing new on that front. 

[gurpilo]

I don't like the trade for 2 reasons, I don't want to trade Hunter, he is too important for us and getting Beal would basically mean losing Collins as well, no cap room. At the end you could finish with a trade of Hunter, Bogi and Collins with some picks for Beal. That is a fool's price for an undersized SG with no defense. We have a young core that took us to the Conference finals with ley injuries, finish the player development and see what we can get from them. Beal and Young are a terrible fit.

[bleachkit]

I would be absolutely shocked if we sold the farm for Beal. I just dont see that as a great fit, and Beal does not seem like a TS type player to me. TS is huge on team chemistry , and trading away young players and draft picks to get Beal would be a huge gamble that might not work out. And he also makes 35 per, that's a lot of money. We are also coming off a ECF appearance. Why swing for the fences now when we are just getting started with this young group? I dont see this happening. For it to be worth it, it has to be the right fit, this has too much risk. 

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I don't like the trade for 2 reasons, I don't want to trade Hunter, he is too important for us and getting Beal would basically mean losing Collins as well, no cap room. At the end you could finish with a trade of Hunter, Bogi and Collins with some picks for Beal. That is a fool's price for an undersized SG with no defense. We have a young core that took us to the Conference finals with ley injuries, finish the player development and see what we can get from them. Beal and Young are a terrible fit.

I completely agree. Not sure he's a good pairing with Trae. He would also command max money.  Plus we have to give up ALOT. Not happening. 

[NBASupes]

I would agree. Hunter/Bogi/and all of our future picks would be too much for me as well. I find it odd we offered this but Toronto is leading with just offering #4 overall. That tells me that our offer is likely a lot less than Hunter/Bogi much less the picks. Generally, whenever the trade that's leading sounds worse than the others, that usually means that's not being offered and they don't want to say what's truly being offered. 

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Here's the BIG news: 

Toronto Raptors who I told you had a plan to get Lillard and Simmons plan is getting more concrete now. They want Beal and Simmons to join O.G. and Vanvleet. Lillard, as I mentioned before will not be traded. 

They are targeting a deal with GS which gives GS 7th and 14th overall as well as Wiggins. GS gets Siakam. 

They are also targeting a deal with Wiggins/4th overall for Beal. I was told this is extremely attractive to WAS who wants at least one potential All Star on a rookie contract and Suggs or Mobley is on the top of their list. I actually think Atlanta and Miami offers a lot more, especially Atlanta but it seems they really want one of these rookies from the top 4 of this class. 

1) I am also told they are looking to trade 7th/14th overall/TPE for Ben Simmons.

They have to get rid of Malachi Flynn to make the money work and are targeting a couple of 2nds and someone who can take him with a TPE. I am told Atlanta is very interested. This is massive news to Hawk fans as this one could possibly go down. 

2) Philly is targeting Lonzo Ball on a SnT with NO using the TPE to take on his salary. They are also planning on keeping 7th/14th overall to build around as well as 28th overall. Philly wants to build up their bench and get potential fits around Embiid. I am told Kuminga could be a Sixer. 

No new update on McCollum. 

I was told OKC didn't offer Shai and 6 for Cade. 

I was also told for HOU to get Cade, it will cost them a pick swap and another lightly protected 1st. I was told, HOU is out on moving up unless the cost is significantly more reasonable. They are targeting what DAL paid ATL for Luka/Trae. DET is targeting a much greater 

HOU and NY are getting closer to moving up for a higher pick but the cost is too great at this time for both teams. 

3) Atlanta is aggressively targeting backup PGs on the trade block. Bruno and Dunn have also been offered with picks. 

4) Atlanta focus is SGs in the draft which is where the most talent is in this draft. Makes me think that Atlanta is thinking about moving Kevin or Bogi sooner than later or maybe just having a backup just in case they leave. There are players Atlanta loves but they don't expect that player to be there at 20. If there, Atlanta could draft in a different direction.

I can confirm, Cam Reddish WON'T be traded for a pick. A star, possibly but he's extremely valuable to them and maybe too valuable to where he's not traded at all which is personally what I hope happens. 

5) I was told Atlanta is willing to move up or down if the price is right. As of right now, it seems like they will stick where they are.

Atlanta expects Dunn to opt in later today from what I've gotten so far. 

The Lakers are targeting a Westbrook trade. If it falls through, they are targeting Hield but they want a PG who can create for others. I don't love the fit but for some reason, LA does. 

The Lakers think they will get a lot of guys to take nothing to play for them. Maybe they are right. Toronto is banking on that as well. 

I really think Klutch is masterminding this trade deadline. It seems like some of these deals are nearly done deals. 

Not too many teams willing to take on a bad contract, Memphis doing so just speaks volume that they felt they needed more premium picks as a franchise. 

I am not sure why Toronto is going so far in. I am really not sure at all. 

I am told Atlanta and Toronto is coveting Daniel Theis as a FA. I am also told Atlanta likes Nerlens Noel as well. Before OO injury, there was no mention of a center outside of the min but the names are actually decent centers. Not the Dedmon/Len types. 

I was told Atlanta still wants to resign JC. Nothing new on that front. 

1). We are in the dead period an all trades involving players need to be completed after 8/2.  GS does not/will not have TPE's to use in this space.

2). Philly has TPE's to use but nothing close to what would absorb Ball's new salary.

3). I can confirm that backup PG is their number 1 priority in the draft, F/A, pick up games in the neighborhood, trade, games of horse after practice. They are looking everywhere for Trae's backup. Bruno/Dunn are being shopped but as filler/pick swaps.

4. ATL won't pass on a SG but it is not their focus. Their number one mission is to use 20 to improve the roster. They are interested in PG/PF/C in that order. This one threw me for a loop.

5. They are looking to move down or package 20. They are looking to move up, package future picks with 48.

[capstone21]

What bu pgs are we targeting?

[thecampster]

Word is there may be some heavy action later today. The Memphis/NO stuff set things in motion.  Could/Should see lots of picks moving this year.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

They have to get rid of Malachi Flynn to make the money work and are targeting a couple of 2nds and someone who can take him with a TPE. I am told Atlanta is very interested. This is massive news to Hawk fans as this one could possibly go down. 

I know nothing about this guy. Tell me more.

He has a $2 million salary, does the Hawks have any TPEs? @thecampster

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I know nothing about this guy. Tell me more.

He has a $2 million salary, does the Hawks have any TPEs? @thecampster

Once Snell is waived, this is all we qualify for at the moment.  

Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception

$ 6,074,714

 

 

I say once Snell is renounced because all of our holds show us in the LT (not reality).

Edited July 27, 2021 by thecampster

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Once Snell is waived, this is all we qualify for at the moment.  

Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception

$ 6,074,714

I thought the Non-Tax MLE was around $9+ mil?

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I thought the Non-Tax MLE was around $9+ mil?

That's pulled directly from Shamsports Capulator.

[thecampster]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/mid-level-bi-annual-projections-for-202122.html

Here see the charts. You're thinking Standard MLE.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

That's pulled directly from Shamsports Capulator.

 

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/mid-level-bi-annual-projections-for-202122.html

Here see the charts. You're thinking Standard MLE.

But we aren't a Tax payer so we should have the Standard MLE, No?

On an unrelated note: the Hawks received $1.25 million in the Rondo/Lou trade - where does that money and how is it calculated against the cap, if it is?

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

But we aren't a Tax payer so we should have the Standard MLE, No?

On an unrelated note: the Hawks received $1.25 million in the Rondo/Lou trade - where does that money and how is it calculated against the cap, if it is?

That is counted in the year it occurred, 20/21.  Has no bearing on future discussions which is all I'm worried about for fear of causing board confusion.

 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

That is counted in the year it occurred, 20/21.  Has no bearing on future discussions which is all I'm worried about for fear of causing board confusion.

 

Okay let me address that.

Cash considerations are not "player salaries" but instead money to make up the difference in taking on a player whose salary you don't want financial responsibility for.  Financial responsibility and Cap responsibility are 2 separate issues.  The money received is not "player salary" which is all the cap/LT is addressing.

Also, cap/LT is a funny business as the penalty is calculated at the end of the season based on the final value of contracts paid. For the purposes of "cap/LT trade rules", the rules are enforced based on the current situation. But the penalty, final tabulation happens during the dead period (after the team plays its last game for season/playoffs).  Trades = current, penalty = final roster spending end of the year.

Cash considerations are payment to take a player you might not otherwise take and not considered salary. It is off the salary books and part of the profit/loss statement.