No Extension for John Collins

[RedDawg#8]

If Im paying for homegrown talent, only Trae, JC and Dre look to be worth it.

 

[aali34]

Damn. I thought he would only be moved for an established star? What changed?

Edited February 15, 2021 by aali34

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Damn. I thought he would only be moved for an established star? What changed?

It's hard to match up his salary for an established star.  If they trade him for another damn lottery pick though, they are setting themselves back.  

[macdaddy]

WTF?   I'm, hopefully, calling bs on that.   This is why i wish we'd extended and hope we are communicating with him.  These reports are only going to increase and it's a problem.  It gets in everyone's mind.   

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

WTF?   I'm, hopefully, calling bs on that.   This is why i wish we'd extended and hope we are communicating with him.  These reports are only going to increase and it's a problem.  It gets in everyone's mind.   

You are seeing two factors this season that show why their decision to tank was a bad idea.  First, you have a coaching staff that allowed the players to screw up in its first two years in the name of getting a high draft pick, and now it's hard to break those bad habits that came out of that.  The transition from losing to winning was always going to be long and hard based on the way they went about things.

Second, when you employ this strategy, you are far more likely to tank again than you are of being a championship team.  Trading John Collins for a lottery pick would mean the Hawks are giving up on this season and are playing for draft position again rather than focusing on doing what it takes to win games.  It's a never ending cycle.

[bleachkit]

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

WTF?   I'm, hopefully, calling bs on that.   This is why i wish we'd extended and hope we are communicating with him.  These reports are only going to increase and it's a problem.  It gets in everyone's mind.   

Total BS. They must have been getting their info from Supes guy ha ha.

[KB21]

Also, before anyone decides to go outside and intentionally slip on this ice that is forming, it is highly likely that the Hawks are asking for a high lottery pick because they know it probably will not happen.  It's not an indictment of John, but more the teams picking that high are unlikely to move a high pick for a player they will have to pay up for next season.  

I was hesitant before the season to give John a max deal, but his development as a two way player this year makes me less hesitant.  The best thing for the Hawks to do is to stay the course right now, and I think they probably includes Pierce.  This team is still developing, and they were always going to have to pay someone before they got good again.  

[bleachkit]

Any team that trades for JC is clearly prepared to pay the max. My preference would be to keep him, but if we do trade him, I need two unprotected 1sts (has to be a bad team), or an unprotected 1st and a good young player to even begin negotiations.. Collins is beyond a good young player at this point, he's an established player/borderline star. 

[AHF]

Like KB, I would be pretty loath to trade JC for a pick.  Even if this was a year with a Tim Duncan, any single team is much more likely to get a pick other than #1 and most of the lottery in any year won't turn out to be nearly as good as JC.  (In Timmy's 1997 draft, Chauncey Billups was a bust for his first 5 years and is the only guy from that lottery class other than T-Mac that would be in the discussion.)  Not only that but there is a lot of time between now and the end of the year and any team trading us their lottery pick would have zero incentive not to win as many games as possible the rest of the way.  It wouldn't be a shock to see a team like Washington really improve if they picked up JC at this point in the season and they are last in the East.

This team has to transition to winning now.  You need to keep JC to stay on that path.  Just get Dunn, Bogi, Hunter, etc. healthy and keep pushing for the playoffs this year.  Find a new coach if LP can't get you there.

If Schlenk really wants to move JC (and I wouldn't be pushing for that by any means), he needs to get back a young vet who can help us win now and in the future.  Such a trade should have less to do with the impending RFA status and more to do just with how TS assesses trade value (i.e., it should be the same as if JC had already been resigned and you received that trade offer).

 

[JayBirdHawk]

41 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Damn. I thought he would only be moved for an established star? What changed?

I'm calling bull, unless Schlenk has decided he wants to go back to the lottery this season. A pick can't help us get to the playoffs this season.

[bleachkit]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Like KB, I would be pretty loath to trade JC for a pick.  Even if this was a year with a Tim Duncan, any single team is much more likely to get a pick other than #1 and most of the lottery in any year won't turn out to be nearly as good as JC.  (In Timmy's 1997 draft, Chauncey Billups was a bust for his first 5 years and is the only guy from that lottery class other than T-Mac that would be in the discussion.)  Not only that but there is a lot of time between now and the end of the year and any team trading us their lottery pick would have zero incentive not to win as many games as possible the rest of the way.  It wouldn't be a shock to see a team like Washington really improve if they picked up JC at this point in the season and they are last in the East.

This team has to transition to winning now.  You need to keep JC to stay on that path.  Just get Dunn, Bogi, Hunter, etc. healthy and keep pushing for the playoffs this year.  Find a new coach if LP can't get you there.

If Schlenk really wants to move JC (and I wouldn't be pushing for that by any means), he needs to get back a young vet who can help us win now and in the future.  Such a trade should have less to do with the impending RFA status and more to do just with how TS assesses trade value (i.e., it should be the same as if JC had already been resigned and you received that trade offer).

 

Trade deadline is March 25th, so hopefully by then the lottery bound teams will be more readily apparent if draft capital is what the Hawks wan in a trade. Still think these articles are probably just click bait/speculation stuff though. Part of the reason every trade article mentions JC is because teams want him. 6'9" toolsy ultra athletic rim rummer that can flat out shoot. He's a stud.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm calling bull, unless Schlenk has decided he wants to go back to the lottery this season. A pick can't help us get to the playoffs this season.

Setting terms for a trade doesn't mean we will trade. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm calling bull, unless Schlenk has decided he wants to go back to the lottery this season. A pick can't help us get to the playoffs this season.

The only way this makes sense is if that pick they acquire is then included in a follow up trade to a different team for a better player to fill Collins role if that team isn't interested in Collins.

[High5]

I don't think Schlenk has done anything to give anyone a reason to believe that he'd trade JC for a first. If he's seeking a first in addition to a player that can help us make the playoffs then I could buy that, as much as I'd hate to lose JC. 

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, High5 said:

I don't think Schlenk has done anything to give anyone a reason to believe that he'd trade JC for a first. If he's seeking a first in addition to a player that can help us make the playoffs then I could buy that, as much as I'd hate to lose JC. 

I just don’t see anyone that they could legitimately get that will make them better than they are with Collins.  

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I just don’t see anyone that they could legitimately get that will make them better than they are with Collins.  

Anything that comes to mind is a trade the other team almost surely wouldn't do.  

[Wretch]

As much as I am a fan of the talent in the lottery and rebuilding, I'm not thrilled about adding another lottery pick in exchange for JC.  If we are so concerned about his salary and matching a ridiculous offer, then we have to move him for talent that helps now.  I'm less concerned about filling his position as I am about just getting significant production/potential in return.

Regardless, these injuries are doing us no favors.  I wonder how different this conversation would look with just a healthy Hunter.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

It's hard to match up his salary for an established star.  If they trade him for another damn lottery pick though, they are setting themselves back.  

We can throw in Snell/Rondo/Gallo if needed..lol

Edited February 15, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

You are seeing two factors this season that show why their decision to tank was a bad idea.  First, you have a coaching staff that allowed the players to screw up in its first two years in the name of getting a high draft pick, and now it's hard to break those bad habits that came out of that.  The transition from losing to winning was always going to be long and hard based on the way they went about things.

Second, when you employ this strategy, you are far more likely to tank again than you are of being a championship team.  Trading John Collins for a lottery pick would mean the Hawks are giving up on this season and are playing for draft position again rather than focusing on doing what it takes to win games.  It's a never ending cycle.

Meh. Had he kept the guy that fell into his lap in 2018, we wouldn't be having this conversation..

Edited February 15, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm calling bull, unless Schlenk has decided he wants to go back to the lottery this season. A pick can't help us get to the playoffs this season.

He could see this year as pretty much a wash, with all of the injuries, no practices, etc... Idk..