No Extension for John Collins

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

We are just going to continue to see b***s*** garbage like this one published by the Athletic (and reported elsewhere as follows):

Woah, Pritchard and Edwards!  And late first round picks?  Wow.  Sign me up!  Maybe we could swap in another long-term backup that Boston drafted over the last few years.  Can't have too many bench players coming back when you trade away a young stud!

SMH....

It started here....

 

 

[kg01]

52 minutes ago, AHF said:

We are just going to continue to see b***s*** garbage like this one published by the Athletic (and reported elsewhere as follows):

Woah, Pritchard and Edwards!  And late first round picks?  Wow.  Sign me up!  Maybe we could swap in another long-term backup that Boston drafted over the last few years.  Can't have too many bench players coming back when you trade away a young stud!

Oh hey, can we have the right to pay Tristan Thompson's contract too?  No, no, you can keep him on the roster, we just wanna pay his salary.  You know, since the only reason we exist is to help the Selltics and whatnot.

Friggin Carsen Edwards is lucky to be on a roster.  That's not sweetener in a deal.  If that's deal sweetener then you may as well tell me to use Worcestershire sauce to sweeten my tea.  What a terrible pick.  Which was worse, him or the Williams kid who's penultimate NBA moment is when his boodee got an assist on Trae's layup?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

SMH....

It started here....

 

 

Kirschner should feel ashamed for participating in this charade.  This summarizes it best.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Kirschner should feel ashamed for participating in this charade.  This summarizes it best.

We are just a glorified farm team for the heritage franchises after all.

[AHF]

On 2/26/2021 at 4:15 PM, bleachkit said:

We are just a glorified farm team for the heritage franchises after all.

Media guys jumping onto a Boston Celtic fantasy trade discussion doesn't translate into what actually is.  I'd say that in the minds of Celtic media, every team other than maybe LA is a glorified farm team for Boston's use.  What is shameful for Kirschner is being a part of a discussion that is premised on that mindset.  He should have been the voice in the room saying "this is crazy people and here is why that can't happen."

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Media guys jumping onto a Boston Celtic fantasy trade discussion doesn't translate into what actually is.  I'd say that in the minds of Celtic media, every team other than maybe LA is a glorified farm team for Boston's use.  What is shameful for Kirschner is being a part of a discussion that is premised on that mindset.  He should have been the voice in the room saying "this is crazy people and here is why that can't happen."

If anything Danny's hardball tactics and tough negotiating have come back to bite him recently. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If anything Danny's hardball tactics and tough negotiating have come back to bite him recently. 

I think when we look back at the Danny era, we'll conclude that his failure to push his chips in and go for a ring at some point will have left his team constantly in the "good but not great" camp which will mean they were always in the playoffs but never a true title contender.  

[REHawksFan]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:01 PM, AHF said:

We are just going to continue to see b***s*** garbage like this one published by the Athletic (and reported elsewhere as follows):

Woah, Pritchard and Edwards!  And late first round picks?  Wow.  Sign me up!  Maybe we could swap in another long-term backup that Boston drafted over the last few years.  Can't have too many bench players coming back when you trade away a young stud!

That's just typical boston arrogance.  They just assume every other team is going to give away A Players for C Players.  I'm halfway surprised they didn't also offer to swap Taco Fall plus a 2nd for Hunter.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[AHF]

The fit between JC and Capela has really been better than anyone expected coming in.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

Obviously we’re having conversations with all the teams around the league,” Schlenk said. “Right now, it doesn’t seem like there’s anything on the horizon, but that can change. You rarely get teams’ best offers. Nobody gets real serious until you get down to the last week or two. It’s hard to gauge. We certainly will look to do anything we can to do anything we can that feels like (it’s) going to make us a better team in the short term and the long term. Those sometimes don’t go hand-in-hand, but we’ll look at any situation we think that will help us.”

Collins’ situation is the most unique given his contract. Collins and his representation turned down a $90 million extension prior to the start of the season because they believe he will get more this offseason. With the way he’s played and because of the lack of quality free agents available on the market, their bet will likely pay off.

Schlenk said he actively listens to all trade offers on each of the team’s players, not just Collins specifically, to get a sense of what the value is on each of them. He did acknowledge that there are several teams who have interest in Collins because of his production at just 23 years old. He was asked if he views Collins as part of the team’s long-term plans.

“John’s a big part of our team — I think he’s second on the team in scoring right now — we all know how effective he can be offensively with his ability to finish in the lane and to shoot the ball from the perimeter,” Schlenk said. “So we still view John as a part of our team, certainly. He made the decision this fall to go to restricted free agency, and that was his choice and obviously, we respect it. But we’re going to have the opportunity to match any offer he gets. We’ll certainly make him an offer in free agency as well, and he’ll have the ability to see if he can get an offer from another team. But at the end of the day, we view him as part of our team, and I don’t see a restricted free agency situation where we would just let him walk for nothing.”

The reality of the situation is the Hawks have not made it abundantly clear to Collins that they view him as highly as he and his representation do. There’s a gap, and one that has been acknowledged from sources close to Collins.

When asked if he needs to see something specific out of Collins in the second half of the season to feel comfortable matching any offer he might receive in restricted free agency, Schlenk said he doesn’t because he and the team know how productive he is and there’s nothing he needs to prove.

 

[Spud2nique]

@kg01 getting worked up in the sac (de cul).... I’m aint mad atcha! You do you boo! 
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMDFrK1BnUE/?igshid=w86in1jhvvmk 

[warcore]

On 3/1/2021 at 2:59 PM, AHF said:

The fit between JC and Capela has really been better than anyone expected coming in.

I dunno if I can prove it but I thought they were a perfect match the day the trade was made. JC ability to shoot from range and his strong all around offensive game seemed like a great complement to a big that bangs down low, gets boards and blocks shots. 

I was confused when everyone was saying it was a bad fit. 

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, warcore said:

I dunno if I can prove it but I thought they were a perfect match the day the trade was made. JC ability to shoot from range and his strong all around offensive game seemed like a great complement to a big that bangs down low, gets boards and blocks shots. 

I was confused when everyone was saying it was a bad fit. 

Collins perimiter game was far from a sure thing coming in. Sure he shot the three well last year, but he shot a low volume and there was no telling if he could keep it up. Collins was viewed on offense principally as a rim runner, which is what Capela is as well so the fear was they would get in each other's way on offense. This happened actually the first or second week of the season until Collins adapted and began playing more on the perimeter. 

[mrhonline]

The pairing hasn't been flawless, of course.

John regularly gets blown by on the perimeter.

And, the lack of any playmaking from him and Capela does cause problems on offense.

[warcore]

16 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Collins perimiter game was far from a sure thing coming in. Sure he shot the three well last year, but he shot a low volume and there was no telling if he could keep it up. Collins was viewed on offense principally as a rim runner, which is what Capela is as well so the fear was they would get in each other's way on offense. This happened actually the first or second week of the season until Collins adapted and began playing more on the perimeter. 

Just gonna have to disagree except the apart his perimeter game lacking coming in and yes, he was viewed as a rim runner coming in ..... however, the trade was made at the end of his 3rd season and we had already seen close to 2 full seasons of him shooting efficiently from the perimeter. His rookie season with trash roster was when he wasn't playing on the perimeter. 

In my opinion, 2 seasons is a good enough measuring stick. Especially with a young player that's only shown improvement in all facets of his game up to the point. Which suggested against regression. 

[RedDawg#8]

14 hours ago, mrhonline said:

The pairing hasn't been flawless, of course.

John regularly gets blown by on the perimeter.

And, the lack of any playmaking from him and Capela does cause problems on offense.

Playmaking from the bigs wouldn't be a big deal if our wings were able to make plays. That's the real issue if you ask me. Most teams have wings that can create some offense. We may be the only team that relies solely on one player for offense. 

[hawkzlova123]

23 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Playmaking from the bigs wouldn't be a big deal if our wings were able to make plays. That's the real issue if you ask me. Most teams have wings that can create some offense. We may be the only team that relies solely on one player for offense. 

Dunn and hunter should be back soon as well as cam. 

Boys we re about to be 100% 

Boys im xcitid

[JayBirdHawk]

Did a Collins Salary Breakdown (may have done it before):

Collins' max is 25% of the salary cap (currently $109 million) so his starting salary would be $27.25. He is eligible for an 8% annual increase so over 5 years, the Hawks can offer a max of $27.2, $29.4, $31.6, $33.8, $36. So 5yr/$170 million - Jamal Murray, DeAaron Fox, Jayson Tatum, Brandon Ingram all signed for these amounts, Siakam signed a 4yr/$130 mil.

A team offering Collins a RFA offer this offseason will be limited to offering him a 4 year deal with only 5% raises. So a max offer from another team will look something like: $27.2, $28.5, $29.9, $31.3, so 4yrs/$117 mil is the max another team can offer. (calculations based on $109, if cap goes up his starting salary goes up).

Hawks offered 4yr/$90 mil (rumored) so the breakdown is something like this, with a starting salary of $20, $21.6, $23.3, $25.1. So the difference between what the Hawks offered vs what a team can offer him as a RFA over 4 years is $27 mil.

So:

5yr Max from Hawks - $170 mil

4yr Max from Hawks - $130 mil

4yr Max from another team - $117 mil

4yr offer from Hawks - $90 mil (rumored)

What I haven't seen is what the JC's camp ACTUAL request was. We know he said he thinks he deserves a max but what was the ask during the actual negotiations or was it a strict take it or leave it offer from the Hawks.

I would like to think there is some wiggle room between the $90 mil and $117 mil to come to a meeting of the minds.