No Extension for John Collins

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, mrhonline said:

Assuming Edwards is off-limits (surely Minny isn't that dumb), McDaniels is the only piece I'd want.

As far as Beasley, I want no part of this around Trae, Reddish, or OO: Google News.

Minnesota going to have to pay a lot for JC. That's all I got that's new. The Hawks still leaning to keeping him. The fear is Dallas but even they aren't big on maxing out JC. We will see. Minnesota has a package but Atlanta wants pick swaps. That's what's the hold up. There are 6 teams in for JC. Most within our division. 

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The whole thing is whether JC is 'worth' the max or whatever amount.   Contending teams don't let key guys just leave because they feel like they aren't worth a few extra million.   They just pay up.   I'm not saying be stupid but it's not like we're banking on JC's potential.  The guy is seriously productive and great for team chemistry.   Who's the vocal leader of this team when he's gone?   As fans, and for the reputation of the franchise, we need to be keeping the elite talent not trying to find more cost effective talent.   

 

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Yep.  You don't wanna be stupid but you gotta understand cheap teams don't win.

Here's another:

Quote

Despite the Hawks getting Bogdan Bogdanovic and Danilo Gallinari back to health and potentially having Kris Dunn and De'Andre Hunter rejoin them soon, the universal opinion among league insiders is that Atlanta is looking to acquire talent over the next week.

"The pressure hasn't changed," said a West executive. "They still are going to do something.

Whomever the Hawks decide to target, the name floating around from Atlanta's end is John Collins. The fourth-year forward is set to be a restricted free agent this summer and could be in line for a nine-figure deal after he and the Hawks failed to come to an agreement on an extension before the season. 

"They're worried he's getting maxed, and they're putting it out there they are willing to pay him if he gets a max but won't be thrilled about it," said an East executive. However, Collins' $4.1 million salary makes it difficult to trade him for an established player, and a deal for the future -- be it young players or draft picks -- doesn't help the Hawks make a playoff push this season.

"I think they'd like to buy, but not sure there's a lot to buy or what they buy it with," said an East exec. "[Kevin] Huerter and picks, I guess, is the package, but what is that buying you?"

2021 NBA trade deadline - League insiders say whether these teams should acquire, unload or stand pat (espn.com)

[JeffS17]

I do feel like a JC trade is imminent.  I love JC but I feel like we were already trying to ship him this past offseason which is why we dragged our feet and ultimately failed to extend.  JC having no extension and on his rookie deal leaves our options way more open-ended for where we can send him out and even sign-and-trade scenarios.  The writing seems to be on the wall and Schlenk is leaving his options open.  With that said, I don't know who we could realistically get back that would make sense, but I hesitate to write off all the JC rumors as journalists who don't know what they're saying.  Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.  I don't want my homer goggles to shield me from what feels inevitable at this point,

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I do feel like a JC trade is imminent.  I love JC but I feel like we were already trying to ship him this past offseason which is why we dragged our feet and ultimately failed to extend.  JC having no extension and on his rookie deal leaves our options way more open-ended for where we can send him out and even sign-and-trade scenarios.  The writing seems to be on the wall and Schlenk is leaving his options open.  With that said, I don't know who we could realistically get back that would make sense, but I hesitate to write off all the JC rumors as journalists who don't know what they're saying.  Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.  I don't want my homer goggles to shield me from what feels inevitable at this point,

Its not.

[JeffS17]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Its not.

Maybe not inevitable, but it seems likely we ship him.  It's clear we don't want to max him and it's very likely a team out there offers it.  We also don't want to let him walk soooo the option that makes the most sense is ship him now and get value.

 

[sturt]

If the corporate-driven news media has no real ethics/shame any more, so much more, then, the corporate-driven sports media.

I've been told for at least 10 years this: "The designated hitter is imminent."

This time last year, I was told "It's done now. You will never see a pitcher hit in a MLB game again."

 

The pride and professionalism is so inconsistent at-best that it... and by "it" I'm especially calling out those occasions when the nature of a report is to predict what will happen... just can't be taken as meaningful.

[macdaddy]

Trading JC at the deadline I'll be the most pissed i've been since the Smitty trade.   And I don't think i'm in the minority on that.   Hawks have to take that into account too.  

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

Y’all crazy, match all day every day and twice on Sunday. Très, ‘Dre, JC, and Ah-Capella must stay. I like The Huert, Code Reddish, and Bogi but would package any/all of them for a superstar SG to put us over the top. No, I don’t know who that superstar is/will be, but this is the ticket to Finals:

Ice Très, Superstar, ‘Dre, JC, Ah-Capella

Trae is getting maxed, if you want a superstar thats another max contract, capela/gallo/bogi are getting $20M per... and you're suggesting we max JC as well... where exactly do we find money to pay hunter, reddish, heurter, or anyone else to fill out the roster?  We'd obviously need to ship some of those guys for the SG but we still have no space with the starting 5 you mentioned.  I just don't think maxing JC is a long-term winning move.  He's really good but if you want to win a chip you 2 things: willingness to run up to the hard cap and you need contracts on good value, not mediocre to bad value, which is what a JC max is.

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Trading JC at the deadline I'll be the most pissed i've been since the Smitty trade.   And I don't think i'm in the minority on that.   Hawks have to take that into account too.  

I'd have to see the trade before passing judgement, but as well all know, trading young stars never helps you win in the near term.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae is getting maxed, if you want a superstar thats another max contract, capela/gallo/bogi are getting $20M per... and you're suggesting we max JC as well... where exactly do we find money to pay hunter, reddish, heurter, or anyone else to fill out the roster?  We'd obviously need to ship some of those guys for the SG but we still have no space with the starting 5 you mentioned.  I just don't think maxing JC is a long-term winning move.  He's really good but if you want to win a chip you 2 things: willingness to run up to the hard cap and you need contracts on good value, not mediocre to bad value, which is what a JC max is.

1. We don't know what Huerter's contract will look like or of we keep him particularly because we a paying Bogi. Maybe by the time Huerter hits RFA, Bogi is moved.

2. When Hunter and Reddish's extensions kick in Gallo and Capela would have expired, Bogi will be in the last year of his player option deal. 

There is nothing static about this and also add the expected rise in Salary Cap in each if the next 3 years.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae is getting maxed, if you want a superstar thats another max contract, capela/gallo/bogi are getting $20M per... and you're suggesting we max JC as well... where exactly do we find money to pay hunter, reddish, heurter, or anyone else to fill out the roster?  We'd obviously need to ship some of those guys for the SG but we still have no space with the starting 5 you mentioned.  I just don't think maxing JC is a long-term winning move.  He's really good but if you want to win a chip you 2 things: willingness to run up to the hard cap and you need contracts on good value, not mediocre to bad value, which is what a JC max is.

I only support a trade if it's in our long term best interests based on the assets coming back. It's just to avoid paying the luxury tax, that will be disappointing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by bleachkit

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

1. We don't know what Huerter's contract will look like or of we keep him particularly because we a paying Bogi. Maybe by the time Huerter hits RFA, Bogi is moved.

2. When Hunter and Reddish's extensions kick in Gallo and Capela would have expired, Bogi will be in the last year of his player option deal. 

There is nothing static about this.

The hypothetical was getting a star SG right now, not in 2 years.  I know our cap situation and it waterfalls out pretty favorably but the lineup the guy presented had Trae, Capela, Collins, star SG, and hunter in it.  If you want that lineup short-term or long-term -- and you're maxing JC -- you're looking at ~$95-105M for trae/JC/star SG, ~$20M for capela, and ~$10M for hunter before his rookie deal is up.  That's $125M minimum and leaves you with no room at all to fill out a bench.  In this hypothetical, you'd have to ship bogi and gallo for expirings and fill out the bench with scrubs.

I don't think it's wise to max JC.  The guy is a solid player but Trae is a huge contributor to his success.  We also need SOME flexibility down the road.  If Cam comes back after this offseason and takes a huge leap, we wouldn't have money to pay him and Hunter, and I know you guys wouldn't want them to walk either.  And a max JC contract will be hard to ship.

[Peoriabird]

20 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae is getting maxed, if you want a superstar thats another max contract, capela/gallo/bogi are getting $20M per... and you're suggesting we max JC as well... where exactly do we find money to pay hunter, reddish, heurter, or anyone else to fill out the roster?  We'd obviously need to ship some of those guys for the SG but we still have no space with the starting 5 you mentioned.  I just don't think maxing JC is a long-term winning move.  He's really good but if you want to win a chip you 2 things: willingness to run up to the hard cap and you need contracts on good value, not mediocre to bad value, which is what a JC max is.

We should not have signed Bogdanovic!

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't think it's wise to max JC.

It may not be wise, they might not like it - but unless you are getting back great value that helps now and in the long term, letting talent walk for scraps is the same penny pinching Hawks.

[RedDawg#8]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

1. We don't know what Huerter's contract will look like or of we keep him particularly because we a paying Bogi. Maybe by the time Huerter hits RFA, Bogi is moved.

2. When Hunter and Reddish's extensions kick in Gallo and Capela would have expired, Bogi will be in the last year of his player option deal. 

There is nothing static about this.

Correct, correct, correct.

JC is the only contract that is due before we have a clear idea of everyone's value, fit, potential, etc... Everyone else lines up on a similar timeline where we can cut ties if needed, re allocate funds, trade expiring  deals, etc.

We knew before hand that the timing for JC was the worst part of his negotiations, as he was about a year too soon, but that shouldn't be held against him like it was held against Taurean Prince.

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It may not be wise, they might not like it - but unless you are getting back great value that helps now and in the long term, letting talent walk for scraps is the same penny pinching Hawks.

I don't disagree but I also don't want us to end up with a $20M/year player on a max contract that is untradeable without mortgaging our future.  I think I'm just not as high on Collins as most people here.

[sturt]

(I soooooooo wish certain individuals on this board... not to be named, of course, lest there be some offense taken by the protectors of all that is good, aka, the priests of Syrinx... were given a real general manager job for just a year or, for that matter, a head coach job for just a year. Not for the Hawks, of course. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, please no. Any other franchise. And if you have to ask me why that would be the case, then I don't think I can explain it to you if I tried.)

[Gray Mule]

It's not just our players.  Almost all pro players now have a common theme:

I WANT!  I WANT!  I WANT!

This is driven by the gigantic money available to any and all who are great players in their chosen sport.  They are, for the most part, spoiled rotten brats.  And, there is nothing that can be done about it.

For the good of the team is not to be considered.  Can't really blame the players.  They see others getting huge $$$ paydays and they want in on it.  

Large market teams can out spend the rest of the league because they have huge income.  They can go way over the limit and never feel the hurt.  

Some of our current Hawks will leave, not because we want them to but because we just can't afford to pay all of them what they want and what other teams are willing to pay.

[Spud2nique]

A lot of teams desire Collins, I appreciate that. Yup, lotta teams want good pieces and we happen to have a lot. I’m flattered! 

[JayBirdHawk]

44 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

It's not just our players.  Almost all pro players now have a common theme:

I WANT!  I WANT!  I WANT!

This is driven by the gigantic money available to any and all who are great players in their chosen sport.  They are, for the most part, spoiled rotten brats.  And, there is nothing that can be done about it.

For the good of the team is not to be considered.  Can't really blame the players.  They see others getting huge $$$ paydays and they want in on it.  

Large market teams can out spend the rest of the league because they have huge income.  They can go way over the limit and never feel the hurt.  

Some of our current Hawks will leave, not because we want them to but because we just can't afford to pay all of them what they want and what other teams are willing to pay.

Here's what I know - there will always be someone else willing to pay these players.  It's the nature of the business.  You are either in or out.  Market conditions dictates what a player gets which at most times you are gonna hear 'overpaid'.  As long as a player's statistical production doesn't tank after a hefty payday and they aid in winning, you keep building on that.

You are right, we can't pay them all but what if they (Hunter, Reddish, Huerter) aren't worth paying in 2-3 years? I'm Just saying.