The Truth about Lloyd Pierce (Insider Thread)

[HawksNWaffles]

53 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He needs to work on his conditioning. Every year he has been in the league he comes into camp 'chubby'.

 

 

Luka Donuts 

 

But in all seriousness, you are definitely right. He would be much scarier if his cardio matched his game.

Edited June 5, 2021 by HawksNWaffles

[NBASupes]

Jokic is what Luka fans think Luka is impact wise 

[benhillboy]

Damn 5 pages on this dude?  Y’all got time today lol.

I’m just happy as hell I don’t have to hear the same ole tired “they made shots, we didn’t” after every loss.  I hear enough of that simplistic dribble from Renee Montgomery.  An NBA game ain’t no damn casual shoot around.

Edited June 5, 2021 by benhillboy

[sturt]

Even if we assume Supes' source is far more objective than any other living human being, it's not especially likely that Supes' source is TS himself, and thus, able to speak from first-hand knowledge having plumbed all of the recesses of TS' brain based on every word said. And even if we assume he had that, there's still the likelihood that TS' thinking was not static.... one week he may have been thinking X, then another, Y... and so even having that kind of mind invasive insight would not be a constant. Point being, even assuming alllll that.... even still, there's plenty of room there to deliberate TS' talent assessment competency.

Here's what we can have confidence in, though, at least from my perspective. Again, let's assume Supes' source is altogether objective and his insight impeccable. Great leaders have the humility and instinct and wisdom to not presume themselves the fountain of all intelligence... rather they only retain 51% of the vote, and allow the people they've hired to have ample opportunity to win over at least 2%, ie, ample opportunity to be swayed to a different conclusion. The GM has to make, and live with the final decision--it's all on him, good or bad. If he'd mostly made bad calls, he might already be out of a job. But the opposite is true. He gets props from me, whether b/c he allowed himself to be persuaded or b/c it was all his idea each time. His process worked. His decisions have been routinely proven smart.

Atta-boy, Colonel.

And now... let's see if you and your scouts/coaches/advisors can take the next step toward the holy grail. There's a beautiful view below, but still more mountain to climb here. Much.

[marco102]

Since this has divulged into a Trae and Luka thread. I found this interesting.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by marco102

[AHF]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Since this has divulged into a Trae and Luka thread. I found this interesting.

I believe the 3.9 assists is a typo for Trae should be 9.3.

It lists 9.4 assists and 3.9 rebounds.

[sturt]

More Luka v. Trae. This question will get asked annually, right? Will it always get this answer? My bet is that in 20 years, it will come down to which one wins more championships.

 

[marco102]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

It lists 9.4 assists and 3.9 rebounds.

Yeah, I removed that after I took another glance at it.

[terrell]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Technically, he shouldn't have been there. Is Jerome Robinson still in the NBA? 

Jerry West had 2 picks in the lottery that year and they took Robinson..lol...They Couldve had MPJr to go along with Shai....

[terrell]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He had a clue, he obviously liked Trae and saw some Steph in him. Same for Hunter, Cam, and he was the man behind Kevin and JC pick. The thing is, HC matters. You want to draft a player the HC loves too. LP had a tremendous eye. Here's what's so hard about this. All of these players, even 2nd rounders can really really play ball. 

Some HCs really value defense from their picks aka Bud. Culver was universally seen as a better prospect by the draftnik community than Hunter. Same for R.J. Trae Young was a boom or bust prospect. Let's not have revisionist history on why this ain't that easy at all. 

Trae is nothing like Steph..smh Travis..lol

Edited June 5, 2021 by terrell

[Q45T]

This was a good read but I still hate LP... doesn’t matter how smart you are if you can’t utilize your basketball intelligence to put the players in a position to succeed. Tough love is one thing, not having their back and throwing them under the bus is another. We had way more talent than the last two years and we were still ass. Good riddance...

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

More Luka v. Trae. This question will get asked annually, right? Will it always get this answer? My bet is that in 20 years, it will come down to which one wins more championships.

 

I always did like Rich Eisen and never found him to be the shock jock kind of host that SAS and Bayless are.  I'm as big a homer as there is for the Hawks, but trying to be objective for a second, I just don't see THAT much separation between Luka and Trae that would negate the opportunity to get another 1st round pick. 

Now I get that everyone will say, yeah but Cam hasn't amounted to anything.  But that's not the point.  Ignore Cam as a player for a second, is there really 1 lottery pick difference between Luka and Trae?  I don't see it.  

So yeah, as a Hawks fan, I'd do that trade over again 100 times out of 100, knowing what we know now.  

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He needs to work on his conditioning. Every year he has been in the league he comes into camp 'chubby'.

 

 sorry don’t mind me...just thinking about the past and how Jaybird hated those unconditioned guys..  

Jay, I’m convinced you would be a good trainer in the Miami Heat system. But alas, you are ours! 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LP

I will

always respect him for working with the guys, having a hand in drafting them, I remember those workouts vs Trae they were fun. Having said that, he can’t coach, he can player develop like a mug, can’t coach though and sadly that’s the #1 criteria GM’s are looking for, it’s sad because development is huge.

 

[Dynamo]

Any coach that undermines and blackballs the players that play on  their team is questionable.

 

[Bonkers]

LP Sucked

-THE END

[hawkman]

31 minutes ago, Dynamo said:

Any coach that undermines and blackballs the players that play on  their team is questionable.

 

"Tough love" or not, I can't respect that. I'm holding out hope this isn't true because I actually liked LP as a person. I never felt he was a "bad" coach. I just felt the team was ready for the next step in its development sooner than he was in his. Too many winnable games lost in the 4th quarter for various reasons. But as a coach, you always have to have your players' back. 

[Gray Mule]

I'm satisfied.  The trade was great!  I wouldn't change a thing.  Trae is exactly what the Hawks needed for years.  Remember, almost all Squawk posters said, over and over, we really need a center and a starting PG.  Then, along came the opportunity to obtain Trae.

Then, when he became available, we grabbed Capela.  That's the two things that posters here had ask for, over and over.  Now, we see what has happened to the Hawks.  Many other moves were made and other players added.  But, without these two, we wouldn't be winners of the first round and now entering the second round.  We expect to make some noise in the second round.

We've missed Cam Reddish this season.  He's stall a Hawk and the extra Atlanta received in the trade.  Travis seems to like to get a little something extra when he's dealing.  I like!

[HawkItus]

On 6/4/2021 at 9:02 AM, NBASupes said:

LP wasn't a loser as a HC. A  big part of Nate's success is the fact that he's an elite gameday coach whereas LP is a major WIP but LP did a lot of things the coaches felt was exceptional, Nate included. 

Nate's success with this squad is kinda luck more than anything. 

Trae hasn't been that much more productive with Nate than with LP. The difference is by slowing the pace significantly, what we consider shot quality has gone up exponentially which is what happens when you opt for slow pace compared to fast pace and Nate runs a lot more plays for individual players.

When Nate took over, we instantly saw improvement from Kevin and Gallo just due to the pace difference. Also, we saw our defense improve as turnovers drops and we were quicker to get set on defense under Nate than LP. The real change took place in April when we inserted Bogi into the starting 5. We all knew he was a good player in SAC and struggle with health early this year which really limited him on the court but we didn't know he was this damn good. No one did. Bogi impact stats have been in the top 10 since April of all NBA players. Clint's been our Trae for defense impact wise so we knew Clint was our most impactful player even if that's mainly due to Trae's presence. We did not know Bogi was this good. He's like a better Klay Thompson. When we signed him, we just thought he would be a more consistent Kevin Huerter with aggressiveness. He was much better than that. 

The coaching change helped the others more due to the pace change and him running plays for others. We still run LP's playbook and system. We added a few wrinkles but the pace change really slows down Trae and he's more likely to run the offense and less likely to dribble, dribble, dribble. LP ran a hybrid D'Antoni system with Spurs actions. Nate kept the offense but instead of turning up the heat to high, he lowered it to low. I will say, he doesn't get in his own way as much as LP does. LP loves his sub matters too much. LP doesn't believe in situational sub patterns. Nate does. I do feel that was worth maybe 2-3 more wins but truth is, Nate kinda got lucky. No one knew that this pace change would turn them into the Warriors. No one knew the system change would turn the Warriors into the Warriors. 

Coaches tend to do stuff like that. Nate doesn't. He doesn't have a whipping boy like LP had with Cam and he doesn't tell other coaches this guy is not ready yet for the USA team because he hasn't improved this and that when that player didn't get a chance to tryout and show the coaches for himself. 

The TNT broadcast completely debunked your arguments on what Nate did with the pace.  Any thoughts?

[macdaddy]

16 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

The TNT broadcast completely debunked your arguments on what Nate did with the pace.  Any thoughts?

I don't know if you are joking but it's pretty clear Nate slowed the pace for the Hawks.   TNT saying otherwise probably only further proves the point they don't know what they are talking about half the time.