Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Spud2nique]

52 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Marvin

Are you talking about Cam here? Hunter or any of the above add Huerter. 

[Diesel]

29 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Are you talking about Cam here? Hunter or any of the above add Huerter. 

Let's say yeah.. it's Cam... Just for grins.

Everybody is expecting Cam to blossom into a star.   Me too.   However, if a good trade comes along, I'm not for waiting on potential that might not ever come if we can get somebody who makes us better now. 

 

[Gray Mule]

Hunter, Reddish, Johnson and 2 future 1st round picks for one all star 76er?

This is the kind of deal they are asking.  Too much.  True, he's an all star and our are still potential all stars.  Any way you slice the pie, the cost is much too high.  Yes, he's very good.  So are our players.

[macdaddy]

16 hours ago, Diesel said:

Uhm...  16 ppg, 56% FG%,  8.0 rpg, 7.7 apg...  = Liability????  Yeah.. those were his career numbers. 

To many people take that one series and want to believe that it is who he is... I hate to be the Simmons apologist here but the dude is not an offensive liability.   That's a mischaracterization.   He had one bad series.  It happens.    Did you ever watch Lebron vs. Dallas in the Finals??  Bad Series. 

I said a lot of times he is and Atlanta exploited it.  When you have a guy who can't see the floor at the end of the game because he might get fouled that's a liability.  When you have a guy that you can sag off 5 feet on the perimeter that's a liability.   All players have weaknesses but these are weaknesses that should disqualify you from getting a max contract unless your 7 feet / 280.  

[ATLHawks3]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

Like I said.. Ben might not be the right trade.  I like what he can do for us but I don't like his salary... Philly will not get 1/2 of what they want for him but he has value.   But I don't want to see no player become another Marvin.  We talk about potential so much that we fail to see that they are not meeting what we expect or need. 

No joke, but I think Philly could get a better offer if they agree to pay for one of the years on his deal.

[sturt]

41 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

agree to pay for one of the years on his deal

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe--unlike MLB--the limit in the NBA is to pay the other team $3m max in any given trade.

[sturt]

17 hours ago, AHF said:

both Dallas and GS are already pretty good and become even better with this trade so an unprotected pick likely translates to a non-lottery selection.

Yes. Point well-taken.

But while it makes the picks received less appealing, that's not to say it makes the picks insignificant and not at all appealing... and particularly as you look at GSW a few years out, when this core group should be expected to decline.

I don't specify what picks or how many, and that's because it's very much an eye-of-the-beholder and nebulous question what should be satisfactory to the three GMs who would be involved... and stating the obvious, it's not like there's any thought that this is actually being deliberated by any of them... it's a thought experiment like virtually every other fan trade proposal is (of course).

 

18 hours ago, AHF said:

The Philly fans might riot even with a pick.  Getting Wiggins back as the best player in a deal could cause Embiid to riot.

Philly fans are Philly fans. Hard to imagine them being happy with whatever they get in return.

But for us who aren't at all drunk on what Simmons could be in light of what he's been?

I ask myself, are they a better team with a competent PG, a 2020 first round PG prospect who's had some good flashes, and a scoring wing?... do they seem to have a better chance of advancing with those three than with Simmons and Seth Curry?

Maybe obviously, my answer is yes, they are.

Then why do I say that there should be some additional draft pick compensation component to the trade that favors them? It's a good question, and my best answer is public perception... indeed, Simmons is seemingly perceived to be so much more than Wiggins is perceived to be. But the reality from where I sit is that Wiggins is a better fit for what PHI needs in order to exceed their 2021 performance.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I said a lot of times he is and Atlanta exploited it.  When you have a guy who can't see the floor at the end of the game because he might get fouled that's a liability.  When you have a guy that you can sag off 5 feet on the perimeter that's a liability.   All players have weaknesses but these are weaknesses that should disqualify you from getting a max contract unless your 7 feet / 280.  

Just think about it though.

We got Simmons.  He's on the floor with Trae, Bogi, JC, and Clint.    or Trae, Bogie, JC, and OO... or   Trae, Bogie, Gallo, and Clint.

My question..  Why is Simmons on the perimeter???

We have other guys who are very capable three point shooters.  That's not why we would call him in at all. 

The other problem in what you said...

You would take Shaq in his prime.. .but won't take Simmons in his prime?  Whereas All Shaq could do is dominate the middle.  Simmons is going to score, pass, rebound, and play 1st class Defense.   But Simmons is a "liability"... and Shaq wasn't....   Explain that Logic to me...

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Why is Simmons on the perimeter???

Other team’s defensive schemes. You’re open for a reason son! 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Other team’s defensive schemes. You’re open for a reason son! 

No...  It's Philadelphia's offensive scheme.  They don't want Simmons bringing another defender to defend Embiid.   That's the problem with them as a team.  Embiid is their dominant scorer... Capable of 40 ppg and 30 points in the paint.    They sit Simmons on the perimeter because they want Embiid to have room to work...

Do we have an Embiid?

If we got Simmons, he would become our Embiid.    Trae, Bogi, and JC are on the perimeter or in the high post playing PNR.

 

 

[macdaddy]

Just now, Diesel said:

Just think about it though.

We got Simmons.  He's on the floor with Trae, Bogi, JC, and Clint.    or Trae, Bogie, JC, and OO... or   Trae, Bogie, Gallo, and Clint.

My question..  Why is Simmons on the perimeter???

We have other guys who are very capable three point shooters.  That's not why we would call him in at all. 

The other problem in what you said...

You would take Shaq in his prime.. .but won't take Simmons in his prime?  Whereas All Shaq could do is dominate the middle.  Simmons is going to score, pass, rebound, and play 1st class Defense.   But Simmons is a "liability"... and Shaq wasn't....   Explain that Logic to me...

Well first and foremost I would absolutely like to have Simmons if the price was right.  Which it isn't.

Simmons vs Shaq?   Well that's easy because 'all Shaq could do is dominate the middle'.   Well that's everything right?   What more do you need?  Dominate the paint on both ends.  Hell yeah.   

Simmons almost averaged a triple double in the Wiz series and had a triple single against us.  Maybe it's an anomaly but it didn't look like it.  Looked like we game planned him out of effectiveness.   You can't have your supposed 2nd best player average 10 points and miss 30 free throws.   He's a pass only PG right now.  Until someone effectively transforms him into an elite PF I'll take a pass.      

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

If we got Simmons, he would become our Embiid.

That’s the thing though, he can’t become our Embiid because Embiid can SHOOT the ball. Ben wouldn’t even be able to play a stretch 5 in our scheme because again he can’t shoot. 
 

If you can’t shoot you are a liability in today’s game. Opposing coaches will adjust to him fairly easily.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

That’s the thing though, he can’t become our Embiid because Embiid can SHOOT the ball. Ben wouldn’t even be able to play a stretch 5 in our scheme because again he can’t shoot. 
 

If you can’t shoot you are a liability in today’s game. Opposing coaches will adjust to him fairly easily.

Yeah you're both right.

In an ideal world, Simmons with the appropriate mindset would be a championship piece for us.  Like, literally, I think that squad would be a title contender.

However, we all know he doesn't have the right mindset.

If you could guarantee they'd be able to fix him, I'd acquire him in a heartbeat.  But the reality is we'd likely only be bringing in a problem child tryna fight with Trae for the pg spot.

Things he needs to do:

- Improve as a FT shooter.

- Play the 3/4, absolutely no 1

I don't need him to shoot well from the perimeter.  I just need him to be brave enough to shoot when that's the proper play.  Right now, he doesn't do that and that's part of the problem.

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

However, we all know he doesn't have the right mindset.

People really want him to and that’s great but he isn’t gonna put in the work.

17 minutes ago, kg01 said:

- Play the 3/4, absolutely no 1

Yup.

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Well first and foremost I would absolutely like to have Simmons if the price was right.  Which it isn't.

Simmons vs Shaq?   Well that's easy because 'all Shaq could do is dominate the middle'.   Well that's everything right?   What more do you need?  Dominate the paint on both ends.  Hell yeah.   

Simmons almost averaged a triple double in the Wiz series and had a triple single against us.  Maybe it's an anomaly but it didn't look like it.  Looked like we game planned him out of effectiveness.   You can't have your supposed 2nd best player average 10 points and miss 30 free throws.   He's a pass only PG right now.  Until someone effectively transforms him into an elite PF I'll take a pass.      

The problem is that he's been relegated to being a PG.   He's not a PG but he has the skillset.   Moreover, Philly's gameplan was skitso.  Everybody but Embiid and Curry Disappeared.  Where was Harris?  When I watched, Harris could score on us AT WILL.  What happened?  It's bad coaching and bad gameplanning.  The reason why teams are salivating over the prospect of getting Simmons and the reason why Philly won't give him up for a salesprice is because everybody knows if you put him in the right situation, he will be one of the best players in the League period.    His defense is better than Lebron's.  His passing and rebounding is comparable to Lebron's.    It's just the free throws right now.. and his shooting is mental.   Put him in a better situation and he becomes one of the best players in the game. 

 

24 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

That’s the thing though, he can’t become our Embiid because Embiid can SHOOT the ball. Ben wouldn’t even be able to play a stretch 5 in our scheme because again he can’t shoot. 
 

If you can’t shoot you are a liability in today’s game. Opposing coaches will adjust to him fairly easily.

When I said our Embiid, I meant, the guy that can play inside.. not play the 5. 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

The problem is that he's been relegated to being a PG.   He's not a PG but he has the skillset.   Moreover, Philly's gameplan was skitso.  Everybody but Embiid and Curry Disappeared.  Where was Harris?  When I watched, Harris could score on us AT WILL.  What happened?  It's bad coaching and bad gameplanning.  The reason why teams are salivating over the prospect of getting Simmons and the reason why Philly won't give him up for a salesprice is because everybody knows if you put him in the right situation, he will be one of the best players in the League period.    His defense is better than Lebron's.  His passing and rebounding is comparable to Lebron's.    It's just the free throws right now.. and his shooting is mental.   Put him in a better situation and he becomes one of the best players in the game. 

 

When I said our Embiid, I meant, the guy that can play inside.. not play the 5. 

 

Ok but will he dunk the ball from 1 foot out? Embiid would flush it, Ben would kick it out for a Thybulle jumper. 

[macdaddy]

His passing and perimeter defense are his elite qualities.   Move him to the four and it negates a lot of that

Reminds me of how we heard for years that Al should be a PF and not a C and he would be one of the best PFs in the league.  But despite playing for like 10 coaches he's mostly a center.   That's because he's a really good center and just an average PF.    Would you rather have Simmons at the 3 over Hunter, at the 4 over Collins?   I wouldn't.

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The problem is that he's been relegated to being a PG.   He's not a PG but he has the skillset.   Moreover, Philly's gameplan was skitso.  Everybody but Embiid and Curry Disappeared.  Where was Harris?  When I watched, Harris could score on us AT WILL.  What happened?  It's bad coaching and bad gameplanning.  The reason why teams are salivating over the prospect of getting Simmons and the reason why Philly won't give him up for a salesprice is because everybody knows if you put him in the right situation, he will be one of the best players in the League period.    His defense is better than Lebron's.  His passing and rebounding is comparable to Lebron's.    It's just the free throws right now.. and his shooting is mental.   Put him in a better situation and he becomes one of the best players in the game. 

 

When I said our Embiid, I meant, the guy that can play inside.. not play the 5. 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again.  Simmons has never had an actual NBA coach.  It's no wonder he's the same player today that he was as a jr. in high school, no cap.

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ok but will he dunk the ball from 1 foot out? Embiid would flush it, Ben would kick it out for a Thybulle jumper. 

Classic ...

... but I don't think that 1 moment should overshadow the fact that the dude is an elite player ... with a glaring weakness.

[hazer]

On 9/9/2021 at 12:02 PM, macdaddy said:

So what did we decide here?  Ben Simmons or no Ben Simmons?

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Haze.. I hate you, I choked myself into a hick up rant. 

Enjoy the strip show!