Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[hazer]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Haze.. I hate you, I choked myself into a hick up rant. 

Enjoy the strip show!

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Ok but will he dunk the ball from 1 foot out? Embiid would flush it, Ben would kick it out for a Thybulle jumper. 

You are talking one play???

[TheBigETrain]

I’ll be on board in bringing Simmons to Atlanta. It’s interesting that Atlanta has a couple of Philly natives in Hunter and Reddish that could be used as a swap. My deal would be as follows:

To ATL: Simmons, Maxey

To PHI: Hunter, Gallinari, Wright

Basically it’s a swap of Hunter for Simmons and Gallinari and Wright are included for cap reasons. And with Wright on traded, we insist on Maxey as part of the deal to backup Trae Young.

We do lose a pretty good veteran in Gallinari, but it will allows us to give more minutes to Jalen Johnson, which I want to do after watching him in the Summer League.

SF: Simmons / Reddish / TLC

PF: Collins / Johnson / Hill

C : Capela / Dieng / Okongwu

PG: Young / Maxey / Williams 

SG: Bogdanovic / Huerter / Mays

 

 

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, TheBigETrain said:

I’ll be on board in bringing Simmons to Atlanta. It’s interesting that Atlanta has a couple of Philly natives in Hunter and Reddish that could be used as a swap. My deal would be as follows:

To ATL: Simmons, Maxey

To PHI: Hunter, Gallinari, Wright

Basically it’s a swap of Hunter for Simmons and Gallinari and Wright are included for cap reasons. And with Wright on traded, we insist on Maxey as part of the deal to backup Trae Young.

We do lose a pretty good veteran in Gallinari, but it will allows us to give more minutes to Jalen Johnson, which I want to do after watching him in the Summer League.

SF: Simmons / Reddish / TLC

PF: Collins / Johnson / Hill

C : Capela / Dieng / Okongwu

PG: Young / Maxey / Williams 

SG: Bogdanovic / Huerter / Mays

 

 

That's a really good thought.  I do like Maxey.   But you about to see some belly aching about it because you're moving a sacred cow. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Atlanta HAS NOT put on the market

An NBA source said the Sixers didn’t do anything with the trade exception because “nothing worthwhile (was) available” and they already have a full 15-man roster. Unless Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey could’ve picked up somebody like Hawks third-year forward Cam Reddish, who Atlanta supposedly hasn’t put on the market yet, for the exception and a first-rounder, the list of players reportedly on the trading block wasn’t too impressive.

 

– via Tom Moore @ Bucks County Courier-Times

 Trade, Philadelphia 76ers

[sturt]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

because you're moving a sacred cow. 

More this than that...

  

On 9/10/2021 at 9:32 AM, sturt said:

us who aren't at all drunk on what Simmons could be in light of what he's been

 

[Gray Mule]

Some joker posted that "If Cleveland traded their entire team for Ben Simmons they would be vastly improved and a candidate for the playoffs next season!"

Really?  Is he that good?  Are the Cavs that bad?  Apparently they are trying, along with other teams.  The 76ers just will not come down off their high horse and no one has, as yet, gone up high enough to move them.  Somewhere, something must give.  No one is happy right now.

[AHF]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:09 PM, Gray Mule said:

Some joker posted that "If Cleveland traded their entire team for Ben Simmons they would be vastly improved and a candidate for the playoffs next season!"

Really?  Is he that good?  Are the Cavs that bad?  Apparently they are trying, along with other teams.  The 76ers just will not come down off their high horse and no one has, as yet, gone up high enough to move them.  Somewhere, something must give.  No one is happy right now.

Clearly Simmons isn't that good (i.e., he can't take a team of G-league players and elevate them to a playoff roster) but he has been a good player career to date. The lowest moment of his career was against us.  His career ft% is roughly 60%.  His career playoff ft% other than against us is 58%.  Against us he was 33% and became scared.

If he returns to a 60% free throw shooter, he can remain a plus starter.  If he can improve that % materially above that number, this represents some of the upside people see in him.  If he can't mentally get over his failures in this year's playoffs, then he becomes a shadow of the player he was prior to the 2021 playoffs.

Time will tell but I think he is a pretty good gamble for the right team - especially if it gets ugly between Simmons and the Sixers and they have to sell at 70 cents on the dollar or something.

[macdaddy]

I can't believe this has gone on so long.   Simmons is good.  He isn't $30 million good.   Unless you really enjoy having albatross contracts on the books i can't imagine why anyone would want to bring him here when we have way more talented guys who we have to pay.   

 

[Diesel]

31 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I can't believe this has gone on so long.   Simmons is good.  He isn't $30 million good.   Unless you really enjoy having albatross contracts on the books i can't imagine why anyone would want to bring him here when we have way more talented guys who we have to pay.   

 

Alright MacDaddy...  Let's examine this statement of Value.    I want to use JC for an example. 

We just paid John Collins 25 Million per year in extension.

What are John Collins'  accolades?

He was on the 2017-2018 All rookie team...  That's it.

I don't remember you fussing about John Collins' extension or calling him an Albatrosse.

We just extended Trae Young... to a max extension.

What are his accolades?

1 time allstar and All rookie team.  That's it.

Now Ben Simmons... Who you did call an Albatrosse.  What are his Accolades?

3x All Star

2019-20 STL Champ

2019-20 All-NBA

2x All-Defensive

2017-18 All-Rookie

2017-18 ROY

And  This past year, came in 12th in MVP voting... Above Harden, Lebron, and Kawhi.

Neither Collins or Trae were on that list.

 

My point is... we like to look at a bad series or his major fault and think that defines him.  If you had a player with these accolades.... what would you pay him??  Careful... I probably can find you praising Trae's extension and Trae is not in Simmon's area code in terms of accolades.

 

[Spud2nique]

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Alright MacDaddy.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I can't believe this has gone on so long.   Simmons is good.  He isn't $30 million good.   Unless you really enjoy having albatross contracts on the books i can't imagine why anyone would want to bring him here when we have way more talented guys who we have to pay.   

 

I wouldn't call him an albatross unless he is permanently scarred from getting in his own head against us in the playoffs.  Otherwise, even if he isn't worth $30M he sure isn't an albatross at least not as how I understand the term.  The way I'd use albatross is a description that applies to someone who drags a team down to the point of inevitable failure.  Not hard for me to see teams that could win big with Simmons at $30M.  

(As an aside, I do have some difficulty seeing our team as that right fit.   Simmons' D would be a great add but his scoring is near useless to us and not sure there is a great way to marry BS's playmaking with Trae's role as our central hub without gutting BS's impact as a playmaker.)

[RedDawg#8]

49 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Alright MacDaddy...  Let's examine this statement of Value.    I want to use JC for an example. 

We just paid John Collins 25 Million per year in extension.

What are John Collins'  accolades?

He was on the 2017-2018 All rookie team...  That's it.

I don't remember you fussing about John Collins' extension or calling him an Albatrosse.

We just extended Trae Young... to a max extension.

What are his accolades?

1 time allstar and All rookie team.  That's it.

Now Ben Simmons... Who you did call an Albatrosse.  What are his Accolades?

3x All Star

2019-20 STL Champ

2019-20 All-NBA

2x All-Defensive

2017-18 All-Rookie

2017-18 ROY

And  This past year, came in 12th in MVP voting... Above Harden, Lebron, and Kawhi.

Neither Collins or Trae were on that list.

 

My point is... we like to look at a bad series or his major fault and think that defines him.  If you had a player with these accolades.... what would you pay him??  Careful... I probably can find you praising Trae's extension and Trae is not in Simmon's area code in terms of accolades.

 

I wasn't asked, but my only objection to that point is that outside of the steals crown, all of those accolades are subject to voting and bias. Simmons winning ROY as a 2nd year player over Mitchell and Tatum is a prime example. 

If Simmons was not in Philly, but say Utah or Sacramento, his resume would be a lot similar to his actual value. If there was no Luka trade and Trae ended up in NY instead, do y'all realize Trae would be considered the second coming and likely have at least 1 All NBA team and 2 All-Star appearances under his name? Voters are biased both by region and by narrative.

As it stands now, Ben received a lot of hype and premature praise because people assumed his shooting would come around on its own one day. He is a really good basketball even if he can't shoot, but it's now proven year over year that he is a liability in the playoffs.

It's not just because of our playoff series. People have been questioning for 3 offseasons now if Simmons and Embiid can coexist. Every playoff exit has been the same story. What makes this year different is that they went in to last season knowing that they would have to make a change if they underachieved again. And on top of that, his scouting report went from he can't shoot, to he won't shoot, to now he is afraid to shoot. Our series exposed the latter. 

Because of this, his resume may never add another notch to it. The hype machine and bias that fueled his first 4 seasons has now woken up.

Ben Simmons will not make another All-Star game or All-NBA team over Trae Young again. Either both make it or just Trae, but never the other way anymore.

Simmons will still get the defensive accolades which he deserves.

All those other days are potentially done.

16-8-8. That's who he is. 

[Spud2nique]

They say a small market team is involved. I’m still going with my initial Sac Kings.

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I wasn't asked, but my only objection to that point is that outside of the steals crown, all of those accolades are subject to voting and bias. Simmons winning ROY as a 2nd year player over Mitchell and Tatum is a prime example. 

If Simmons was not in Philly, but say Utah or Sacramento, his resume would be a lot similar to his actual value. If there was no Luka trade and Trae ended up in NY instead, do y'all realize Trae would be considered the second coming and likely have at least 1 All NBA team and 2 All-Star appearances under his name? Voters are biased both by region and by narrative.

As it stands now, Ben received a lot of hype and premature praise because people assumed his shooting would come around on its own one day. He is a really good basketball even if he can't shoot, but it's now proven year over year that he is a liability in the playoffs.

It's not just because of our playoff series. People have been questioning for 3 offseasons now if Simmons and Embiid can coexist. Every playoff exit has been the same story. What makes this year different is that they went in to last season knowing that they would have to make a change if they underachieved again. And on top of that, his scouting report went from he can't shoot, to he won't shoot, to now he is afraid to shoot. Our series exposed the latter. 

Because of this, his resume may never add another notch to it. The hype machine and bias that fueled his first 4 seasons has now woken up.

Ben Simmons will not make another All-Star game or All-NBA team over Trae Young again. Either both make it or just Trae, but never the other way anymore.

Simmons will still get the defensive accolades which he deserves.

All those other days are potentially done.

16-8-8. That's who he is. 

You make some good points... However,   Aside from Embiid... what other Philly players benefited from the media bias that you claim?

Well, let's think... After Allen Iverson left Philly, Andre Iguodala had his chance to be the lead dog...

Let's look at his accolades:

1x All Star  = With GS

3x NBA Champ    = With GS

2x All-Defensive   = With GS

2004-05 All-Rookie   = With Philly

2014-15 Finals MVP  = With GS 

Iguodala has all these accolades with GS but his best statistical years were with Philly.  He got NO LOVE.

That team also had Andre Miller, Kyle Korver, and Lou Williams...  How many of them received any love for anything they did in Philly?

Before Iverson got to Philly, there was a talented young player there name Jerry Stackhouse.  His rookie season... 19, 4, & 4.

Yet, Jerry Stackhouse never went to an allstar as a 76ers...  Never got any awards as a 76ers.  He got No love.

 

Like I said, you make a good point... but it fails to hold true... We can argue Mitchell over Simmons.. No doubt. 

Here's the stat view for that year:

Simmons averaged 15.8 points, 8.2 assists and 8.1 rebounds 

Meanwhile, Mitchell put up 20.5 points, 3.7 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game 

If you were voting...   Who do you vote for?

 Are we just voting for Mitchell because he's from a small market team?  I mean 20.5 ppg is great.  But I didn't even put up defensive numbers from Simmons as a rookie.   The offensive numbers look like Dark Phoenix vs. Storm.  Sure, it's a good back and fourth for a minute... but when the writers saw just the statistics and the defensive stats too... .90 out of 101 of them voted for Simmons.   Did the Utah press vote for Mitchell?

The reason why GMs drool over Simmons is that he's young and has the ability to be the next Magic.   Even in their head to head the next year, Philly won by 17 and Simmons dropped  13, 14, and 12 on the Jazz.   No Embiid in Utah.... 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201812270UTA.html

 

 

 

[Diesel]

Hey Fellas...

I get it... I see where you can blame the whole series on Simmons and he lost them the game 7 because he only had 5, 13, and 8 with 50% from the field and 50% from the FT on 2 FTs...

I get it... 

He's the worst player ever and he has always been bad???  He sucks... should have never been rookie of the year with 16, 8, and 8...

His poor FT shooting makes him a Liability. 

I get it... He sucks.

Or does he??

When was the last time you had a consistent triple double threat who played suffocating defense?

Westbrook aint it.  Magic wasn't it. Lebron isn't it. 

We in Hawkland take too many liberties looking at the speck of sawdust in Philly's eye and not recognizing the planks in ours....

If we had a 6'10 lockdown defender who could be trusted to put up triple double like numbers... we would be ecstatic.  If Cam came out next year and put up triple double like numbers and played lockdown defense... to the point that he was a steals per game leader.... and a Blocks per game leader... we would be over the moon and we would be praising Travis. 

 

The only real question about Simmons is his confidence.  If Simmons can find himself on the right team with the right coach... and he regained his confidence... he could be the MVP of this league.  Everybody realizes that except Hawks fans.  One bad series doesn't make him a bad player. 

 You guys who try to rewrite history and say he has always sucked and he's an albatross is amazing to me.   His accolades make even Trae's look like a child's. 

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If Simmons can find himself on the right team with the right coach... and he regained his confidence... he could be the MVP of this league.  Everybody realizes that except Hawks fans.

Well i missed a bunch of posts but like I said Simmons is really good.   I never said the guy was bad.  I just don't want him to be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid player on the team.   It's that simple.   

But look at that statement.  If if if.   Heck that sounds like what we said about Smoove who was also a great passer and defender but couldn't throw it in the ocean.   

Yeah all his accolades?  He's been in the league longer in a premium market on a team that's been decent longer.  But who cares about accolades.  That doesn't make him able to shoot.   

I'll ask again.   If we had him on our roster would you start him over Trae, BB, Hunter, JC, or CC?   I wouldn't.   And i'm not paying a guy $30 mill to come off the bench.  

But I'll make it simpler.   I don't really like him.   

[macdaddy]

But I'm more than willing to take a wager on Simmons winning the MVP if you want. 

[Spud2nique]

37 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

 I don't really like him.   

He’s kind like that hot girl in school you hear rumors about but she wouldn’t do everything.  Wait, I mean she would.. 

Too cool for school girl  

[AHF]

2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

 

Ben Simmons will not make another All-Star game or All-NBA team over Trae Young again. Either both make it or just Trae, but never the other way anymore.

 

Simmons (among others) making the All-Star team over Trae last year was a travesty.  (As much as anything dealing with a fan exhibition can be a travesty.)  It was obvious that Trae was the better candidate with the better case.  Call it media bias against Atlanta or media bias in favor of Philly, but Simmons clearly was less deserving.  

I agree with you that their performance against each other in the playoffs should have put that to bed for the rest of their careers.