Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I have a question I’ll just post it here and not make it a separate topic.

Who would you rather have?

Lamar Odom (prime)

Ben Simmons (prime, I assume it’s this upcoming year if you factor years in the league and age as a combo)

?

They said teams like us saw him as our Lamar? I’m just wondering who many of you think is better. A prime Lamar or Ben?

I'm still assuming Ben's ceiling is a couple years away if things go right for him.  I view Simmons as the higher ceiling but Odom as the safer pick.  Simmons is a huge question mark for how he is going to bounce back from this.  Worst case is Nick Anderson 2.0.  Best case is that he follows Jason Kidd and others that started with broken jumpers and gets to some reasonable level of competence.  (Kidd was 31 before his jumper became an actual plus to his game and was 24 before he really improved his FT stroke).  
 

If I am a team with legit stars already, then I want Odom because I think his skills are more reliable.  But if I am counting on Odom/Ben to raise my team's ceiling, I'm going with Simmons and praying he matures and develops his shooting.

[NBASupes]

13 hours ago, JTB said:

If you don’t mind can you give us some details on that ?

I believe you mentioned “6th man”….I’m just trying to understand what exactly the goal was IF a trade went through and was Simmons willing to accept that role.

if you can’t speak on it I understand but I don’t believe you stated exactly what you heard in the “ask nbasupes 2” thread.

I don't have much detail on it than surface level. 

I don't know if that's a role that Simmons would take. Simmons is pretty open to playing in a smaller market but he has seemed to lean on roles where he would still be the superstar. Not sure if Atlanta ever fit that and even if we did, we aren't open to trades at this time. 

That's all I have in relation to the Hawks

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Odom

How do you think Odom would have done in 2005-10 if he wasn’t primarily trying to act as a “Pippen type” to Kobe, Pau and co.? Do you think he could carry his team as a #2, certainly not a #1 option? 
 

Agree though, it’ll be a bit clearer this upcoming season. If Ben improves nothing in his perimeter game he’s in trouble.

[AHF]

48 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

How do you think Odom would have done in 2005-10 if he wasn’t primarily trying to act as a “Pippen type” to Kobe, Pau and co.? Do you think he could carry his team as a #2, certainly not a #1 option? 
 

Agree though, it’ll be a bit clearer this upcoming season. If Ben improves nothing in his perimeter game he’s in trouble.

I think he was always best as a #3 option.  Don't think he could be a legit #2 scoring option at all.  He is more of a swiss army knife giving you versatile contributions all over but not dominant in anything.  He also didn't have anything close to an alpha personality.  

[Atlantaholic]

He's making around 10 million a year more than Collins and really isn't all that much better. 

[Spud2nique]

34 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He's making around 10 million a year more than Collins and really isn't all that much better. 

I would say Collins is better. Ben has “the tools” but who cares if he is afraid to lay the ball in when he’s under the hoop.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I would say Collins is better. Ben has “the tools” but who cares if he is afraid to lay the ball in when he’s under the hoop.

Both JC and Simmons average 13.9 ppg and between 8 and 9 and rebounds per game in the playoffs.  I think Simmons has the big plus of his passing and defense.  JC has the plus of fit on offense with his spacing.  Simmons passing on the dunk was a big moment but whether it is a career defining moment or one that is forgotten depends on what he does going forward.  Again, Nick Anderson yips is worst case.  Getting confidence and some range is the best case.  I do think he is moving from badly overrated to potentially underrated right now based on how far he got in his own head against us.  

Using his free throws as an example, he has been a career ~60% ft shooter in both the regular season and post-season until this past year when he was an abysmal 34%.  It makes a huge difference if he returns to 60%, if he improves to closer to or above 70%, or if he loses confidence and is a 30-40% guy going forward.  A return to his career numbers should mean a more confident player but the risk is there.

[Atlantaholic]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

Both JC and Simmons average 13.9 ppg and between 8 and 9 and rebounds per game in the playoffs.  I think Simmons has the big plus of his passing and defense.  JC has the plus of fit on offense with his spacing.  Simmons passing on the dunk was a big moment but whether it is a career defining moment or one that is forgotten depends on what he does going forward.  Again, Nick Anderson yips is worst case.  Getting confidence and some range is the best case.  I do think he is moving from badly overrated to potentially underrated right now based on how far he got in his own head against us.  

Using his free throws as an example, he has been a career ~60% ft shooter in both the regular season and post-season until this past year when he was an abysmal 34%.  It makes a huge difference if he returns to 60%, if he improves to closer to or above 70%, or if he loses confidence and is a 30-40% guy going forward.  A return to his career numbers should mean a more confident player but the risk is there.

How Ben Simmons responds will definitely be one of the most interesting stories going into next season. A lot of hot takes right after our series but the Sixers didn't panic and their absurd trade demands for Ben seem like they were sending a message to the league about how highly they still value him. 

[REHawksFan]

On 8/20/2021 at 5:36 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Clint is a bad freethrow shooter but he's willing to mix it up inside, missed bunnies and all.

I've wondered at times if the reason he misses so many bunnies is because he's trying to get a shot off before getting fouled given his poor FT shooting.  

[Atlantaholic]

7 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I've wondered at times if the reason he misses so many bunnies is because he's trying to get a shot off before getting fouled given his poor FT shooting.  

Definitely get that impression, he tries to get too cute down there with his finishes instead of taking it up strong consistently. 

[macdaddy]

48 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Definitely get that impression, he tries to get too cute down there with his finishes instead of taking it up strong consistently. 

And is pretty terrible at using the backboard.  

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I've wondered at times if the reason he misses so many bunnies is because he's trying to get a shot off before getting fouled given his poor FT shooting.  

yep...I've said as much before

[QuantumHawkz]

I'm sorry, but I gotta sick with Hunter and Reddish.

[sillent]

On 8/25/2021 at 7:32 PM, Spud2nique said:

I have a question I’ll just post it here and not make it a separate topic.

Who would you rather have?

Lamar Odom (prime)

Ben Simmons (prime, I assume it’s this upcoming year if you factor years in the league and age as a combo)

?

They said teams like us saw him as our Lamar? I’m just wondering who many of you think is better. A prime Lamar or Ben?

Lamar Odom could shoot and play all 5 positions. He might not have lived up all the way to his potential. That may give Ben an edge but as far as fit Lamar could fit into any role without disturbing the flow of the team.

[Diesel]

48 minutes ago, sillent said:

Lamar Odom could shoot and play all 5 positions. He might not have lived up all the way to his potential. That may give Ben an edge but as far as fit Lamar could fit into any role without disturbing the flow of the team.

I think Ben's defense separate's him from Odom.   Moreover, Odom was never a high point guy.  His PPG mirrors what Ben does..   So now we're talking ther other stuff.  Defense = Simmons.   Passing = Simmons   Rebounding = maybe even. 

[swanlee]

I think Simmons is mentally broken and would cost to much. Our team is pretty solid we don't need a square peg messing with our chemistry.

[NBASupes]

Just a FYI. It's not happening for the Hawks. Hawks like their squad. 

[macdaddy]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Just a FYI. It's not happening for the Hawks. Hawks like their squad. 

Good.

[Diesel]

What I'd be willing to offer for him is:  Gallanari, Reddish and Heurter for Simmons. 

 

Trae, Bogo, Simmons, JC, and Cap - Starters. 

We lose some depth.. We lose some potential.. but you got to give Philly something.    For us, our starters will be hard to keep up with.  We're more defensive.  We're bigger.   It will be interesting. 

[capstone21]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What I'd be willing to offer for him is:  Gallanari, Reddish and Heurter for Simmons. 

 

Trae, Bogo, Simmons, JC, and Clint - Starters. 

We lose some depth.. We lose some potential.. but you got to give Philly something.    For us, our starters will be hard to keep up with.  We're more defensive.  We're bigger.   It will be interesting. 

Edited ... only one Cap