CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[IheartVolt]

LMAO.. You guys are killing me..

 

That is five words so my work here is done. I am not even gonna say anything to Supes in his thread about his new budding bro-mance that is forming 

[Buzzard]

24 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I always value Supes’ analysis but I found myself much more troubled by the weaknesses in Mike Schmitz’s video than encouraged by the strengths.  Shooting off screens and defensive versatility was great.  Low shot release not so much.  Downright pathetic finishing ability and questionable motor is gonna give me nightmares of Joe Johnson again.  He lacks the perfect size and playmaking to offset.

I do trust that CLP The Don and Ice Trae The Game will devise a comfortable fit (Supes’ favorite term lol)  for him at some point during his rookie campaign.  I do not share his same zest for volume three point shooting under .400, varied or no.

I think the best part of Cam's offensive game is shooting threes and free throws. I agree !00% on everything you posted. If Cam can be a more defensive minded/bigger athletic version of JJ Redick, taking him 10th is a solid win. He absolutely has to be able to shoot with his weakness when finishing.

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I always value Supes’ analysis but I found myself much more troubled by the weaknesses in Mike Schmitz’s video than encouraged by the strengths.  Shooting off screens and defensive versatility was great.  Low shot release not so much.  Downright pathetic finishing ability and questionable motor is gonna give me nightmares of Joe Johnson again.  He lacks the perfect size and playmaking to offset.

I do trust that CLP The Don and Ice Trae The Game will devise a comfortable fit (Supes’ favorite term lol)  for him at some point during his rookie campaign.  I do not share his same zest for volume three point shooting under .400, varied or no.

Thanks for the post. Much appreciate the reply. 

He does have shades of Joe Johnson. For me, he is a lot like Jamal Crawford scoring and creator/Jodie Meeks movement potential/T-Mac body/fluidity/and build, bio-mechanics and defense is a like like Lonzo Ball. 

I think you might be truly understating high end variance and the difficulty of it regardless of age.  You can't uaw our old ways of scouting into the new era of Basketball. That's why Tyler Herro and Cam Reddish are the two most impressive shooters for me in the draft even if I think Kyle Guy and Cameron Johnson are the best shooters because in today's NBA, off ball high end variance is KING. Even more than on ball high end variance. 

The days of 40% and above being a good marker of 3pt% shooting for college prospects is long gone. 

His finishing is much better than the numbers. Not that it's much better than it is because it's not, he will just get easier baskets in our system and in our personnel grouping. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

@AHF, you know what it is? People just don't think he is that talented. They think, oh, he must just look like the part. They don't realize this guy is extremely talented. More talented than PG as a prospect. He just doesn't have a normal skill-set for a G/F of his size. He has a modern analytic based game. 

For me, I think Cam just doesn't have that competitive "dog" in him. 

I can easily see a Marvin Williams type career for him, in the sense that he'll never be anything more than just a good backup/decent 4th option starter .. but could be in the league for a long time.

His lackluster production despite his size, SCREAMS a lack of intensity, which would explain the poor finishing numbers at the rim and in the paint.

The analytics actually show that he may be best with the ball in his hands as a pick and roll initiator, rather than a spot up shooter. If that's the case, he needs to be aggressive be, be aggressive.

If Cam has all of this talent, we might be looking at Joe Johnson lite in a few years.

Right now, I'd take a steady Marvin Williams like career from him.

[nathan2331]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

For me, I think Cam just doesn't have that competitive "dog" in him. 

I can easily see a Marvin Williams type career for him, in the sense that he'll never be anything more than just a good backup/decent 4th option starter .. but could be in the league for a long time.

His lackluster production despite his size, SCREAMS a lack of intensity, which would explain the poor finishing numbers at the rim and in the paint.

The analytics actually show that he may be best with the ball in his hands as a pick and roll initiator, rather than a spot up shooter. If that's the case, he needs to be aggressive be, be aggressive.

If Cam has all of this talent, we might be looking at Joe Johnson lite in a few years.

Right now, I'd take a steady Marvin Williams like career from him.

Well, in high school Cam was a killer. I've seen multiple videos of his peers praising him, and for good reason. He didn't show it at Duke, but he's absolutely got the ability to score in volume. Playing as a third fiddle next to Zion and RJ, his game was suppressed. Similar to how Bosh had to become more perimeter oriented in Miami to accommodate Wade and LeBron. In the NBA, obviously he isn't going to come in and be our number one option. But the ball moves on our team, and it'll be to his benefit when he's getting open looks and more space when driving to the basketball.

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

This strikes me as an unfair criticism as this applies to every rookie in history even the ones who were ready to blow up immediately like Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, MJ, Magic, Big O, etc.

Or Anthony Bennett, Marvin Williams, random big stiff Euro, etc

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Well, in high school Cam was a killer. I've seen multiple videos of his peers praising him, and for good reason. He didn't show it at Duke, but he's absolutely got the ability to score in volume. Playing as a third fiddle next to Zion and RJ, his game was suppressed. Similar to how Bosh had to become more perimeter oriented in Miami to accommodate Wade and LeBron. In the NBA, obviously he isn't going to come in and be our number one option. But the ball moves on our team, and it'll be to his benefit when he's getting open looks and more space when driving to the basketball.

Len is getting 5 to 8 shots per game, Trae is going to take close to 20, Collins is going to take 15. In a 100 shot per game league, 40+ are gone before the kid steps on the court.  Hunter is going to get an opportunity. Parker (if healthy) is a scoring machine. Huerter earned the right to lose the job last year.  The kid is running out of 15 shots a game to take.  That would be the minimum for him to "set the world on fire" or at the very minimum bake a good set of cookies by Christmas.  

 

I am the biggest proponent of defense and rebounding you may ever see, but that doesn't sell tickets and the Hawks are in sell tickets mode, not NBA championship mode. Not poo-pooing Cam but begging for realism here.  Cam wins rookie of the year means 3 major Hawks broke limbs or snapped tendons. Lets not be rooting for that.

[nathan2331]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Len is getting 5 to 8 shots per game, Trae is going to take close to 20, Collins is going to take 15. In a 100 shot per game league, 40+ are gone before the kid steps on the court.  Hunter is going to get an opportunity. Parker (if healthy) is a scoring machine. Huerter earned the right to lose the job last year.  The kid is running out of 15 shots a game to take.  That would be the minimum for him to "set the world on fire" or at the very minimum bake a good set of cookies by Christmas.  

 

I am the biggest proponent of defense and rebounding you may ever see, but that doesn't sell tickets and the Hawks are in sell tickets mode, not NBA championship mode. Not poo-pooing Cam but begging for realism here.  Cam wins rookie of the year means 3 major Hawks broke limbs or snapped tendons. Lets not be rooting for that.

Both Prince and Bazemore got over 10 shots a game in 28 minutes or less. Cam is straight up a better offensive player than either. Obviously he lacks in experience, but he's a better shot creator than either right now. Personally I don't see Cam lighting the league on fire initially, but he will get opportunities to shoot if he's playing. I don't agree with Supes' conclusion simply because I haven't see how Cam plays with the Hawks in reality, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Trae put things together a lot faster than I anticipated, so I'm open to the idea Cam can do the same. 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

For me, I think Cam just doesn't have that competitive "dog" in him. 

I can easily see a Marvin Williams type career for him, in the sense that he'll never be anything more than just a good backup/decent 4th option starter .. but could be in the league for a long time.

His lackluster production despite his size, SCREAMS a lack of intensity, which would explain the poor finishing numbers at the rim and in the paint.

The analytics actually show that he may be best with the ball in his hands as a pick and roll initiator, rather than a spot up shooter. If that's the case, he needs to be aggressive be, be aggressive.

If Cam has all of this talent, we might be looking at Joe Johnson lite in a few years.

Right now, I'd take a steady Marvin Williams like career from him.

You aren't watching his game, you are watching the stat sheet. 

Whenever you compare Cam and the first name that pops up is Marvin, your statement goes straight to my garbage can.

That's why I wrote this for people who simply lack foresight

Edited July 19, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Both Prince and Bazemore got over 10 shots a game in 28 minutes or less. Cam is straight up a better offensive player than either. Obviously he lacks in experience, but he's a better shot creator than either right now. Personally I don't see Cam lighting the league on fire initially, but he will get opportunities to shoot if he's playing. I don't agree with Supes' conclusion simply because I haven't see how Cam plays with the Hawks in reality, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Trae put things together a lot faster than I anticipated, so I'm open to the idea Cam can do the same. 

Some people just gotta see it to believe it. You seen how he agrued like a baby kitten about the piece in general. 

I wrote over how many words, idk. If you can't understand, then let his game do the talking. 

As Cam likes to say "If they seen, They know" 

 

Whenever someone makes a case and they start saying silly shit like shots in our system, pace, and personnel, just charge them to the game of foolishness. 

Thecampster will be nonsensical on this topic. Cam will bust the NBA ass next season and he will be copping pleas. It's not worth my time to convince people of what I find to be obvious. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

@sturt, Moss did play in D1-AA and tied a lot of Jerry Rice records.

[kerrypack]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Or Anthony Bennett, Marvin Williams, random big stiff Euro, etc

Marvin Williams had a long career.  He just wasn't worth the second pick.  He always was kinda uncoordinated, not a freak athlete, but a good teammate, etc.  And yeah, for this team, Marvin Williams with the 10th pick would be good enough.  We already have two very solid players and some other good pieces.  supes definitely likes him...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Well, in high school Cam was a killer. I've seen multiple videos of his peers praising him, and for good reason. He didn't show it at Duke, but he's absolutely got the ability to score in volume. Playing as a third fiddle next to Zion and RJ, his game was suppressed. Similar to how Bosh had to become more perimeter oriented in Miami to accommodate Wade and LeBron. In the NBA, obviously he isn't going to come in and be our number one option. But the ball moves on our team, and it'll be to his benefit when he's getting open looks and more space when driving to the basketball.

But most college players in high school were "killers".

Cam had a 6 game stretch when Zion went down, to really show what he can do. He showed flashes, but at best, he was wildly inconsistent.

Then he flat out disappeared in the ACC and NCAA tournaments.

So to me, the guy has to want to be great. And people who want to be great don't sit back and let the game come to them. They go out and impose their will on people.

If Cam is as talented as Supes thinks he is, I fully expect Cam to either be the starter by Christmas, or play a significant 6th man role as a scorer/defender/playmaker.

[kerrypack]

(also, why do we always bring up Marvin as the worst pick ever?  The Hawks did so many boneheaded things from 1999 to 2008 that Marvin is not at the top of the list.  Shareef Abdur Rahim?)

[NBASupes]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But most college players in high school were "killers".

Cam had a 6 game stretch when Zion went down, to really show what he can do. He showed flashes, but at best, he was wildly inconsistent.

Then he flat out disappeared in the ACC and NCAA tournaments.

So to me, the guy has to want to be great. And people who want to be great don't sit back and let the game come to them. They go out and impose their will on people.

If Cam is as talented as Supes thinks he is, I fully expect Cam to either be the starter by Christmas, or play a significant 6th man role as a scorer/defender/playmaker.

I disagree wholeheartedly. 

There is a difference between good in HS and an elite scorer who can bust your ass at will. It's like you have no f***ing clue on this topic. Cam wasn't just a killer in HS. Cam does shit no one can do. 5 3s in a row. One from 30ft, step back, hesi, can't guard him in iso and lord don't like that man get a screen, it's Jamal Crawford 2.0. The level of HS he played which we reference isn't your church league, EYBL is the best HS players in the nation regardless of classification. Even then, in HS, he had a national schedule. Once again, stop talking about shit you don't know.

Cam got hurt during the same game but the difference was, he didn't sit like Zion did and he played through a serious groin injury. It was only Duke toughest stretch of games outside of the pre conference Maui run. 

Of the two games Cam missed, Duke was 1-1, couldn't guard the perimeter for shit and needed a player from VT blowing a wide open layup for the win and the other, they lost to an unranked Syracuse. Once again, watch the f***ing film.

He disappeared because he is an elite space player on non ball movement, non spacing, and he is the only shooter in a college game where they just sit in a zone because the opponent know Duke would kill them in M2M. It's considered to be a good defensive strategy. 

He will do that with us in my belief. He always had the want to as well but he isn't R.J. He isn't going to force his style on you, you have to have his style as a base for him to be successful. 

He is as talented as I think he is. Believe that.

[kg01]

39 minutes ago, kerrypack said:

(also, why do we always bring up Marvin as the worst pick ever?  The Hawks did so many boneheaded things from 1999 to 2008 that Marvin is not at the top of the list.  Shareef Abdur Rahim?)

Because none of them were the #2 pick in the draft.

Marvin was a bust because of where he was picked.  He's had a good career but the bust label stands.

[NBASupes]

56 minutes ago, kerrypack said:

(also, why do we always bring up Marvin as the worst pick ever?  The Hawks did so many boneheaded things from 1999 to 2008 that Marvin is not at the top of the list.  Shareef Abdur Rahim?)

SAR 

The Rider trade

The Acie Law pick

The Shelden Williams pick

The Josh Childress pick

The Mad Dog trade

The list is long. Marvin is the opposite of Cam Reddish. He had a tremendous college season for a freshman. He is a player I felt went to the wrong team, in the wrong era, in the wrong position and role for the NBA. And said it so many times. 

I still stand on the idea that he would be the 4th best prospect in this class if he was in this draft and obviously modernized his game which already had modern elements. 

Marvin was a better prospect than De'Andre Hunter is. I don't think anyone would argue with that. Marvin had everything you want from a modern stretch 4 especially if he played in today's AAU scene.

I wouldn't doubt some or many would take Marvin over R.J. and maybe even Ja. If Marvin had BPM. It would be as high as JJJ was last year. His WS and other stats were identical 

Edited July 19, 2019 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

Marvin sucks.

[NBASupes]

I always felt from watching Marvin even without close to my knowledge of the game that I have today that Marvin had superstar potential if even star potential. I always felt back then that Marvin is just a role player who is talented. I felt the same way about his baby brother Jaren Jackson Jr. And still feel that way about JJJ. 

With Cam, I have not only a lot more knowledge, insight and a lot more film. He is going to be a superstar in the NBA in the right personnel grouping and situation. I felt that way the entire process and now that he is in the perfect fit. I am doubling down

 

In the 2005 draft 

Deron was #1 on my big board. CP3 was #2. Bogut was #3. It was a big man game back then and played differently than it is today. Marvin was #4. Felton #5. I remember it to this day. I felt Deron and CP3 had all star potential. Bogut was a day 1 top 8-10 NBA center and Marvin was going to be a nice role player. 

The media loved Marvin and even 2k had his potential at 97 overall 

Edited July 19, 2019 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I always felt from watching Marvin even without close to my knowledge of the game that I have today that Marvin had superstar potential if even star potential. I always felt back then that Marvin is just a role player who is talented. I felt the same way about his baby brother Jaren Jackson Jr. And still feel that way about JJJ. 

With Cam, I have not only a lot more knowledge, insight and a lot more film. He is going to be a superstar in the NBA in the right personnel grouping and situation. I felt that way the entire process and now that he is in the perfect fit. I am doubling down

Cam will be better than OJ Mayo. Right or wrong personnel it won’t matter. One balls while the other falls on the floor and acts like a .