Official Game Thread: Spurs at Hawks

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

1. Magic

2. Zeke

3. Stockton 

4. Oak town’s finest 

5. Nash

6. CP3

7. Kidd

UHmmmm... Where O where is the real BIG O.. Oscar Robinson??

The Blatant Disrespect!!

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Career wins? You sure. Again Stockton made the finals twice, CP3 once. Jazz were regular season 50+ game winner for like a decade and a half straight.  

WS. Stockton played 19 years, CP3 is in year 16. Look at similarly scores 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html

Edited February 13, 2022 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

22 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Diesel saying Magic and Zeke are in the same tier, I disagree there. Magic is higher on the totem pole imo.

 

I said it's debateable... 
Lemme explain...

If you put Magic on the team with Dumars and the rest of the Bad Boys.. what happens to Magic Stats?

IF you put Zeke on the team with Kareem and all those finishers... What happens to Isiah's Stats?

of Course Magic is always going to have rebounds over any other Pg... but I would suggest that having the Lakers was a big benefit. 

[Spud2nique]

Stockton is part of the best duo in the history of the league.

 

STOCKTON TO MALONE!

 

 

CP3 TO DAVID WEST

CP3 TO BLAKE GRIFFIN

CP3 TO JAMES HARDEN

CP3 TO DEVIN BOOKER

 

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

UHmmmm... Where O where is the real BIG O.. Oscar Robinson??

The Blatant Disrespect!!

Sorry this was players I’ve seen play live.

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

CP3 is in year 16.

17

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I said it's debateable... 
Lemme explain...

If you put Magic on the team with Dumars and the rest of the Bad Boys.. what happens to Magic Stats?

IF you put Zeke on the team with Kareem and all those finishers... What happens to Isiah's Stats?

of Course Magic is always going to have rebounds over any other Pg... but I would suggest that having the Lakers was a big benefit. 

You can't underrate that trait. Especially when guys like Westbrook, LeBron, and Jokic can quickly turn those rebounds to transition opportunities in their primes. 

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I said it's debateable... 
Lemme explain...

If you put Magic on the team with Dumars and the rest of the Bad Boys.. what happens to Magic Stats?

IF you put Zeke on the team with Kareem and all those finishers... What happens to Isiah's Stats?

of Course Magic is always going to have rebounds over any other Pg... but I would suggest that having the Lakers was a big benefit. 

Who you got Dies. Top 7 or 8. That’s you’ve seen live not Bob Cousy. 

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I said it's debateable... 
Lemme explain...

If you put Magic on the team with Dumars and the rest of the Bad Boys.. what happens to Magic Stats?

IF you put Zeke on the team with Kareem and all those finishers... What happens to Isiah's Stats?

of Course Magic is always going to have rebounds over any other Pg... but I would suggest that having the Lakers was a big benefit. 

That’s all true but given all that, 9/10 pick Magic over Zeke in their dream team lineup. . You the one that don’t 

ps @NBASupes This barbershop be mad laggin I just needed a fade I been here 5 hours!  

[Spud2nique]

38 minutes ago, Diesel said:

UHmmmm... Where O where is the real BIG O.. Oscar Robinson??

 I heard that Robinson fella was good. …

ps @sturt don’t worry he’s in the top 5! 

 

 

[sturt]

52 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Oscar Robinson??

The Blatant Disrespect!!

I don't know what to say. I really don't. Who is Oscar Robinson?

[Diesel]

37 minutes ago, sturt said:

I don't know what to say. I really don't. Who is Oscar Robinson?

Oscar Robertson was that guy who averaged a triple double for a season. 

 

 

Found this interesting tidbit:

Career
Magic Johnson 13 Seasons   
G    Min   Pts   PPG  FGM  FGA   FG%  FTM  FTA  FT%  3PM  3PA  3P%  ORB  DRB  TRB  RPG  AST  APG  STL  BLK TO   PF 
906  33245 17707 19.5 6211 11951 .520 4960 5850 .848 325 1074 .303  1601 4958 6559 7.2 10141 11.2 1724 374 3506 2050 
Oscar Robertson 14 Seasons  
G    Min   Pts   PPG  FGM  FGA   FG%  FTM  FTA  FT%  3PM  3PA  3P%  ORB  DRB  TRB  RPG  AST  APG  STL  BLK TO   PF 
1040 43886 26710 25.7 9508 19620 .485 7694 9185 .838 0    0   .000   71  208  7804 7.5 9887  9.5  77   4   0    2931 
Steve Nash 10 Seasons   
G    Min   Pts   PPG  FGM  FGA   FG%  FTM  FTA  FT%  3PM  3PA  3P%  ORB  DRB  TRB  RPG  AST  APG  STL  BLK TO   PF 
703  21068 9495  13.5 3426 7188  .477 1726 1926 .896 917 2178 .421  436  1547 1983 2.8 5006  7.1  569  50  1702 1308 
John Stockton 19 Seasons
G    Min   Pts   PPG  FGM  FGA   FG%  FTM  FTA  FT%  3PM  3PA  3P%  ORB  DRB  TRB  RPG  AST  APG  STL  BLK TO   PF 
1504 47765 19711 13.1 7039 13658 .515 4788 5796 .826 845 2202 .384  965  3085 4050 2.7 15806 10.5 3265 315 4243 3942 
Isiah Thomas 13 Seasons
G    Min   Pts   PPG  FGM  FGA   FG%  FTM  FTA  FT%  3PM  3PA  3P%  ORB  DRB  TRB  RPG  AST  APG  STL  BLK TO   PF 
979  35516 18822 19.2 7194 15904 .452 4036 5316 .759 398 1373 .290  951  2527 3478 3.6  9061  9.3 1861 249 3682 2971 

Bolded numbers means better of the 4 compared

Highest assist totals for a season  |   Seasons with 10+ APG  | Seasons leading league in assist
Stockton   1164                         10                      9
Thomas     1123                          4                      1
Johnson     989                          9                      4
Robertson   899                          5                      6
Nash        861                          2                      2

[Diesel]

The difference is the fast break.  Isiah never had a team that ran the fast break so he spent a lot more time managing a game.   He had to basically develop his scorers.  Magic and really Stockton too had to find their finishers.  Magic is capable of running the halfcourt game but there's a difference between being able to run the halfcourt game and having to run the halfcourt game every play. 

[sturt]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Oscar Robertson was that guy

Oh. Okay. Why didn't you say so?

I was trying to figure out if you meant Frank Robinson by chance.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Run the damn PnR. Attacking mismatches is a Nate staple and it's just not as successful as it should be.

 

No Bueno!

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

 I heard that Robinson fella was good. …

ps @sturt don’t worry he’s in the top 5! 

 

 

Good talk!  yeeeaaaa buddy 

[AHF]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:53 PM, NBASupes said:

He played 19 years, you are losing yourself on this one. You aren't losing me.

Bad argument.  Look at the list of top assists per game in any season:

Magic shows up at #8 for the first time after Stockton already has 5 seasons on the board.  It wasn't merely the total number of years or total number of games that Stockton played.  Note that Magic played in 4 of the 5 seasons where Stockton was setting records:

1987-88 Stockton 13.76 apg / Magic 11.9 apg

1988-89 Stockton 13.6 apg / Magic 12.8 apg

1989-90 Stockton 14.5 apg / Magic 11.5 apg

1990-91 Stockton 14.2 apg / Magic 12.5 apg

I personally have Magic as #1 on my list of GOAT PGs but this type of argument that Stockton has the better numbers just because he was more durable doesn't hold any water.  The best argument against Stockton is nothing more or less than his lack of explosiveness as a scorer.  I think the vast, vast majority of 'industry experts' as well as knowledgeable fans would have Stockton in their top 4 PGs of all time because of his passing, defense and the Steve Nash-esque scoring (i.e., lower volume than you'd like for someone that talented but very efficient).

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, sturt said:

A lot of popular... dare I say, also, "shallow"... conclusions in this thread that avoid the evidence.

But it's okay.

 

 

Shallow???   Evidence?? ...I know what my lying eyes tell me when I watched us play in each of the first few weeks of each season.  I had my issues with his offensive philosphy in each of the early part of the last 2 seasons. 

On 11/29/2022 at 1:07 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I know this pledge is about the roster and players...but I'm going to start with coaching. I'm laying EVERYTHING at Nate's feet.

1. I'm not a fan of Nate! Same as it was last year, same this year.

2. His offensive philosophy of attacking mismatches and playing in the midrange, it leads to too much ISO stuff.  The inflexibility with his rotations, timing and personnel usage.  He does not coach with situational instinct.  It's your time to go in or come out - so that's what will happen.  In game adjustment - very rare.

2. We are a low volume, low percentage shooting 3-point shooting team - not in todays NBA.  His comment regarding ignoring what the analytics say - sure sure sure.  See where we are? smh

 

On 11/1/2022 at 12:16 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I railed against this whole mid-range shots and attacking mismatches in the early part of last season as well - now here we are, AGAIN.  There is nothing imaginative and intuitive about Nate's offense. 

If you going to be a midrange team you need to take more of them and hit at a higher percentage.  We aren't getting to the free throw line except Trae.

 

On 2/12/2022 at 5:25 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Run the damn PnR. Attacking mismatches is a Nate staple and it's just not as successful as it should be.

Posted in wrong thread...but still applies.

[sturt]

And all of that, @JayBirdHawk, can be right... and yet... none of it... none... un-does what the results were. The results were the results. For whatever good and bad reasons, given whatever good and bad conditions, given whatever good and bad decisions... what came out in the wash is what came out in the wash.

.621 when tested under a normal set of conditions.

So, it's not about Nate being better with Lloyd's sets. That's false. People will say what they want to say. Free country. Flat earth, and we've never been to the moon.

The evidence is that it's this season exclusively that's been the problem.