The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Luka's supporting cast won multiple playoff games without him.  That is very different from Huerter, Hunter, etc. who have shown some very important flashes but haven't been there with the same consistency.  For example, Jalen Brunson has 9 games this postseason where he scored between 21 and 41 points.  Hunter has 2 games and Huerter has 1 game between 21 and 41 points in their careers.  Bogi has 4.  So Brunson has 9 this year alone (which happens to be the first year Dallas is doing anything in the playoffs with Luka) and Bogi, Hunter and Huerter have a combined 8 for their entire careers.

Other than Bogi, the rest are young and will improve.  We have talked about the lack of an offseason for almost half of the Hawks so I will continue to reiterate my previous statement. A productive off season will be transformative for this team.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Jalen Brunson

Him and Spencer Din. We need some guards that can handle for sure. It’s not Huerter he’s scared to dribble too much. It’s nobody on our roster right now.

Combo guards needed.

Is Derrick Rose too old?

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

the rest are young and will improve. 

I’m not banking on this anymore. Specially with your boy JC. Dude didn’t add much besides that initial outside shot. He gets bodied and his athleticism isn’t enough to cover for his weaknesses at the 4. 
 

I really wanna swing a deal with Sacramento for Sabonis centering on JC. I realize they just got him but let’s face it, the Kings are a desperate organization and so desperate things.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Other than Bogi, the rest are young and will improve.  We have talked about the lack of an offseason for almost half of the Hawks so I will continue to reiterate my previous statement. A productive off season will be transformative for this team.

I definitely hope you are right.  Just pointing out that they haven't transformed yet so a future state where those guys level up just hasn't been in play the last playoff runs.  Our guys have stepped up in a handful of games but the Dallas guys have taken the reins and led the team for portions of a lot of these games.

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Him and Spencer Din. We need some guards that can handle for sure. It’s not Huerter he’s scared to dribble too much. It’s nobody on our roster right now.

Combo guards needed.

Is Derrick Rose too old?

Dinwiddie hasn't been on the same level as Brunson, imo, but he doesn't need to be as a third option who has scored 30, 22, 20, 19, etc. to supplement Luka and Brunson.  He isn't #1 or #2 in scoring in the playoffs with the full team so him chipping in 15 points is more meaningful than if they were counting on him to play a more central role.  I just view him as much more replaceable than Brunson.

The three of them in combination have given Dallas some nice check down options for sure.

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is just too much a repeating pattern for CP.  Think this writes his legacy to some extent.  That "lost series after 2-0 lead" is bad.

The idea that he can't win a game when Foster refs is telling.  As I mentioned in our series, for better or worse, Foster doesn't back down to Paul's histrionics and bullying.  As a result, he's forced to simply play basketball and it diminishes him.  That says a lot even if you acknowledge Paul's a really good player.

Heyul, when the game's called too loose and it impacts Trae's effectiveness, it says something.  Meaning it's something he's gotta overcome.  But, to me, there's a difference between having to overcome play outside the rules vs a guy being hampered by the rules being enforced properly.

And, to add a disclaimer since I know the homer-police's ears perked up there.  No, I'm not suggesting Trae is great and Paul is trash - I know that's what they read.

[Peoriabird]

34 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m not banking on this anymore. Specially with your boy JC. Dude didn’t add much besides that initial outside shot. He gets bodied and his athleticism isn’t enough to cover for his weaknesses at the 4. 
 

I really wanna swing a deal with Sacramento for Sabonis centering on JC. I realize they just got him but let’s face it, the Kings are a desperate organization and so desperate things.

Why not wait until the trade deadline next year and see what you have?  If John is still not meeting your lofty expectations, there will be an opportunity to move him

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

meeting your lofty expectations,

Hey, they aren’t just my lofty expectations they should be his.

[warcore]

6 hours ago, JTB said:

Nope it’s not clear at all but man media is the devil!

I was being sarcastic

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Hey, they aren’t just my lofty expectations they should be his.

Just saying that Ayton's numbers aren't even John like at the same age and posters think he is great!  John when healthy does a lot for this team and I consider him the heart and sole and the voice of this team

[NBASupes]

47 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m not banking on this anymore. Specially with your boy JC. Dude didn’t add much besides that initial outside shot. He gets bodied and his athleticism isn’t enough to cover for his weaknesses at the 4. 
 

I really wanna swing a deal with Sacramento for Sabonis centering on JC. I realize they just got him but let’s face it, the Kings are a desperate organization and so desperate things.

I still think Phoenix is enamored with Sabonis. I wouldn't be surprised if a SnT for Sabonis with Ayton was done by PHX. Saves PHX money and I still believe Sacramento are in love with Ayton as they were on draft night. The issue is, Ayton has to want to go to Sacramento. Good luck with that.

Edited May 16, 2022 by NBASupes

[JeffS17]

I won't hate it if we get Ayton but I still don't know if it's the best move.  One of the intangible things I like about Gobert is the presence he will have in the locker room and the leadership he shows on the defensive end.  He holds guys accountable for playing defense and isn't afraid to speak up.  We have no one on the squad that really does that.  People complain about Gobert's age but maybe what this squad needs is a little bit of vet presence to force some accountability -- Nate doesn't seem to be able to do that.  

[NekiEcko]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I still think Phoenix is enamored with Sabonis. I wouldn't be surprised if a SnT for Sabonis with Ayton was done by PHX. Saves PHX money and I still believe Sacramento are in love with Ayton as they were on draft night. The issue is, Ayton has to want to go to Sacramento. Good luck with that.

Yeah I dont see him going there at all.  Besides Suns probably wants to shipped him away from Western Conference.  But I think Ayton is a option but not the solution.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

This is just too much a repeating pattern for CP.  Think this writes his legacy to some extent.  That "lost series after 2-0 lead" is bad.

I don't fault any one that loses a series after leading 2-0..  It could easily just go as the Home team wins at home... and if they go to a game 7, the home team lossed game 7.   That's not bad.    What's bad however is not showing up for games 3-7.

 

[Dynamo]

Ayton is an option.Hawks need experienced veterans,perimeter defenders,playmakers and players that can consistently shoot/score.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Here is the thing...early in the series against Phoenix, the fans and pundits were saying the same thing about Luka's supporting cast i.e. they weren't showing up and then they showed up in the last game. How is that any different from what Huerter did last year vs Philly? Or even Gallo/Bogi in some games?

By the way, I agree that center isn't the problem

There's no difference.  I agree.   I think that Dallas had the luxury of having their others finally show some consistency... just like ours did last year.   That's not a statement of slight against us or Dallas, it's just a point that when everything is working, we and they are hard to beat.  As I said, we have sometimy "others".   Unfortunately against Miami, guys who could have stepped up to help sustain us were not even on the court or was out there walking injured and couldn't produce even if they wanted to produce. 

 

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I don't fault any one that loses a series after leading 2-0..  It could easily just go as the Home team wins at home... and if they go to a game 7, the home team lossed game 7.   That's not bad.    What's bad however is not showing up for games 3-7.

 

Cause - Not showing up games 3-7

Effect - Losing series after leading 2-0

[Diesel]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

Cause - Not showing up games 3-7

Effect - Losing series 

I fixed that for you.

Several teams have lost a series after leading 2-0.   That's not even a marker when you consider HC advantage.   But where Phoenix messed up is not showing up for games 3-7 by CP3.  They also desserted a working offensive plan.  If CP3 is getting less than 8 shots per game after he has been looking this post season, something else is wrong. 

 

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

People complain about Gobert's age but maybe what this squad needs is a little bit of vet presence to force some accountability -- Nate doesn't seem to be able to do that.  

We definitely need that.   Seems to me like Gobert isn't that popular with his teammates though.   Maybe it's just Mitchell?   Not every vet can command the respect.  Solo did it from the bench.   Rondo was horrible at it imo despite being really loud.  

[AHF]

22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I fixed that for you.

Several teams have lost a series after leading 2-0.   That's not even a marker when you consider HC advantage.   But where Phoenix messed up is not showing up for games 3-7 by CP3.  They also desserted a working offensive plan.  If CP3 is getting less than 8 shots per game after he has been looking this post season, something else is wrong. 

 

 

The issue for CP is that he has never broken through in the playoffs and has come from ahead to end up losing an abnormal number of series.  I just think that is going to somewhat define his legacy.  He isn't like Stockton and Malone where they could argue that Michael Jordan kept them from a title.  

Just look at this pattern:

2008:  Up 2-0.  Win 3 home games an average of almost 20 points a game but still lose the series on their homecourt.  (A lot of similarity to this year's series).

2015:  Misses first two games with the team splitting those against Houston.  Win the next two games to go up 3-1 needing only 1 more win to advance in 3 games.  Buh-bye.  (Houston wins only 1 game in its next series).

2016:  Up 2-0 against a decent but not great Portland team, LA gets swept from that point on.  In Paul's defense on this one, he got hurt and missed the last few games of the series.  (Portland wins only 1 game in its next series).

2017:  Up 2-1 with 2 more home games and 2 on the road, fail to get the two wins needed against a decent but not particularly threatening Utah team.  (Utah goes on to be swept in the second round).

2021:  Up 2-0, get swept out of the playoffs after that.  This one doesn't mean as much to me since Milwaukee was good but clearly Phoenix couldn't recover the momentum after winning the opening games and this is partly on Paul's as the conductor of their offensive orchestra.

2022:  We know this was one of the worst given homecourt advantage, how bad Paul's game fell off after the first two games, and how unimpressive the Mavericks are (not in an absolute sense but as far as being legit title contenders).

 

What is most remarkable to me is how many of these series Paul had homecourt advantage to go with the early series lead and how of their opponents were not teams that went on to the NBA finals but ended up getting crushed in the next round of the playoffs.  Which means they were losses against teams that were either clearly or arguably not even contenders and they were in a real position of strength after 2 or 3 games only to crumble.  

I just think this overall pattern could be a legacy thing for Paul in a way that the failure of teams to beat the Bulls was not.  (I.e., if Paul had lost these series to prime Golden State it wouldn't carry the same weight as losing to Portland, Dallas, etc.)

[NBASupes]

30 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We definitely need that.   Seems to me like Gobert isn't that popular with his teammates though.   Maybe it's just Mitchell?   Not every vet can command the respect.  Solo did it from the bench.   Rondo was horrible at it imo despite being really loud.  

Lol, accountability and Onovan