The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Q45T]

This is just my opinion but I’m not hot on Gobert or Ayton. They both just got bodied by a team that doesn’t even have a real center. Ayton does not have a passion for basketball which was discussed during predraft and is why the Suns don’t wanna max him. Gobert is just too whiny but a lot of his issues come from having to clean up messes from Utah’s trash perimeter defense. I’m honestly cool with Capela for now granted he gets healthy. I think we should prioritize getting another ball handling guard who can actually play defense… not that there’s a lot of those out there anyway.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, Q45T said:

This is just my opinion but I’m not hot on Gobert or Ayton. They both just got bodied by a team that doesn’t even have a real center. Ayton does not have a passion for basketball which was discussed during predraft and is why the Suns don’t wanna max him. Gobert is just too whiny but a lot of his issues come from having to clean up messes from Utah’s trash perimeter defense. I’m honestly cool with Capela for now granted he gets healthy. I think we should prioritize getting another ball handling guard who can actually play defense… not that there’s a lot of those out there anyway.

I haven't heard a single name that made sense yet. Finding a perimeter fit for Trae is like finding sneakers for Shaq.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I won't hate it if we get Ayton but I still don't know if it's the best move.  One of the intangible things I like about Gobert is the presence he will have in the locker room and the leadership he shows on the defensive end.  He holds guys accountable for playing defense and isn't afraid to speak up.  We have no one on the squad that really does that.  People complain about Gobert's age but maybe what this squad needs is a little bit of vet presence to force some accountability -- Nate doesn't seem to be able to do that.  

Not mad at this. It’s a very good point.

[JTB]

22 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I haven't heard a single name that made sense yet. Finding a perimeter fit for Trae is like finding sneakers for Shaq.

I think there’s tons of perimeter fits it just depends on what you’re looking for and how you classify “fit”.

 

[hylndr11]

Sorry cp need to explain his worse plus minus if his career in game 7 , I mean were they just tired ? 

[NBASupes]

I've actually gotten updates but nothing juicy yet. Nothing about Atlanta yet.

35 minutes ago, JTB said:

I think there’s tons of perimeter fits it just depends on what you’re looking for and how you classify “fit”.

 

Naw, I don't see any at a high level. At Kevin level, sure including Kevin.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

The issue for CP is that he has never broken through in the playoffs and has come from ahead to end up losing an abnormal number of series.  I just think that is going to somewhat define his legacy.  He isn't like Stockton and Malone where they could argue that Michael Jordan kept them from a title.  

Just look at this pattern:

2008:  Up 2-0.  Win 3 home games an average of almost 20 points a game but still lose the series on their homecourt.  (A lot of similarity to this year's series).

2015:  Misses first two games with the team splitting those against Houston.  Win the next two games to go up 3-1 needing only 1 more win to advance in 3 games.  Buh-bye.  (Houston wins only 1 game in its next series).

2016:  Up 2-0 against a decent but not great Portland team, LA gets swept from that point on.  In Paul's defense on this one, he got hurt and missed the last few games of the series.  (Portland wins only 1 game in its next series).

2017:  Up 2-1 with 2 more home games and 2 on the road, fail to get the two wins needed against a decent but not particularly threatening Utah team.  (Utah goes on to be swept in the second round).

2021:  Up 2-0, get swept out of the playoffs after that.  This one doesn't mean as much to me since Milwaukee was good but clearly Phoenix couldn't recover the momentum after winning the opening games and this is partly on Paul's as the conductor of their offensive orchestra.

2022:  We know this was one of the worst given homecourt advantage, how bad Paul's game fell off after the first two games, and how unimpressive the Mavericks are (not in an absolute sense but as far as being legit title contenders).

 

What is most remarkable to me is how many of these series Paul had homecourt advantage to go with the early series lead and how of their opponents were not teams that went on to the NBA finals but ended up getting crushed in the next round of the playoffs.  Which means they were losses against teams that were either clearly or arguably not even contenders and they were in a real position of strength after 2 or 3 games only to crumble.  

I just think this overall pattern could be a legacy thing for Paul in a way that the failure of teams to beat the Bulls was not.  (I.e., if Paul had lost these series to prime Golden State it wouldn't carry the same weight as losing to Portland, Dallas, etc.)

2015:  Misses first two games with the team splitting those against Houston.  Win the next two games to go up 3-1 needing only 1 more win to advance in 3 games.  Buh-bye.  (Houston wins only 1 game in its next series).

Didn't he miss the series due to injury?

2017:  Up 2-1 with 2 more home games and 2 on the road, fail to get the two wins needed against a decent but not particularly threatening Utah team.  (Utah goes on to be swept in the second round).

Isn't this the series where they loss their top scorer (Blake Griffin).   They tried to replace him with Maurice Spheight?  Honestly, that LAC team was lacking talent.  In the end, after Blake was injured,  it was like CP3 and JJ Redick. 

2021:  Up 2-0, get swept out of the playoffs after that.  This one doesn't mean as much to me since Milwaukee was good but clearly Phoenix couldn't recover the momentum after winning the opening games and this is partly on Paul's as the conductor of their offensive orchestra.

I couldn't begin to tell you how they got up 2-0 against Milwaukee.   Milwaukee was just leagues better than them.   I do blame Monty for not trying to double Giannis. 

I think this loss to the Mavs is the most puzzling.   No injuries.  Just lost to an inferior team. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

I never in my life thought that Utah Jazz team was a legit contender with Stockton and Malone. That Bulls squad was always superior to everyone and if they were healthy, they were going to win it all

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

I definitely hope you are right.  Just pointing out that they haven't transformed yet so a future state where those guys level up just hasn't been in play the last playoff runs.  Our guys have stepped up in a handful of games but the Dallas guys have taken the reins and led the team for portions of a lot of these games.

 

John and Capela were hurt and so was Bogi.  Would love to flip Bogi and Gallo but they are probably not seen as positive assets by the league like they were last year so we are stuck with them

 The one thing I have noticed about the remaining team with exception of maybe Boston is depth. So instead of consolidating like Brooklyn and the Lakers, we need to expand and develop our depth not shrink it.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

2015:  Misses first two games with the team splitting those against Houston.  Win the next two games to go up 3-1 needing only 1 more win to advance in 3 games.  Buh-bye.  (Houston wins only 1 game in its next series).

Didn't he miss the series due to injury?

 

No.  

LA went 3-1 when CP played less than 30 minutes or missed the game entirely over the first 4 games.  They went 0-3 when CP played 30+ minutes over the last 3.

Quote

2017:  Up 2-1 with 2 more home games and 2 on the road, fail to get the two wins needed against a decent but not particularly threatening Utah team.  (Utah goes on to be swept in the second round).

Isn't this the series where they loss their top scorer (Blake Griffin).   They tried to replace him with Maurice Spheight?  Honestly, that LAC team was lacking talent.  In the end, after Blake was injured,  it was like CP3 and JJ Redick. 

Yes - They did lose Blake.  But was CP, prime DeAndre Jordan (15.4 points, 14.4 rebounds per game), Jamal Crawford, and Redick not enough to compete with this Utah team?  They weren't exactly impressive.

 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

John and Capela were hurt and so was Bogi.  Would love to flip Bogi and Gallo but they are probably not seen as positive assets by the league like they were last year so we are stuck with them

 The one thing I have noticed about the remaining team with exception of maybe Boston is depth. So instead of consolidating like Brooklyn and the Lakers, we need to expand and develop our depth not shrink it.

JC and Capela being hurt are different issues unless you think either of them could assert themselves as a legit #2 option in the playoffs like Brunson has for Dallas this year.  I see their limitations as making a bigger impact on defense and on the type of offense we could run (can't do normal PnR for example) but neither of them are legit #2 options, imo.  So they might have been enough to change the complexion of the series and perhaps even lead to a Hawks win (who knows but I think Miami should have the benefit of the doubt given their full season performance) but it doesn't change the fact that none of our wings have made the transformation you are talking about yet.  

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

JC and Capela being hurt are different issues unless you think either of them could assert themselves as a legit #2 option in the playoffs like Brunson has for Dallas this year.  I see their limitations as making a bigger impact on defense and on the type of offense we could run (can't do normal PnR for example) but neither of them are legit #2 options, imo.  So they might have been enough to change the complexion of the series and perhaps even lead to a Hawks win (who knows but I think Miami should have the benefit of the doubt given their full season performance) but it doesn't change the fact that none of our wings have made the transformation you are talking about yet.  

You can win games by playing defense...I know this is a foreign concept to Hawk fans but teams do it on a regular basis. We saw it 1st had with Miami. And even with Dallas...their defense was far more impressive than their offense most of the game.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

You can win games by playing defense...I know this is a foreign concept to Hawk fans but teams do it on a regular basis. We saw it 1st had with Miami. And even with Dallas...their defense was far more impressive than their offense most of the game.

That is a non-sequitor.  You can both play defense and have legit #2 options like Milwaukee last season.  I'm not arguing that our defense doesn't need to improve - just that this is largely unrelated to whether any of our wings transform into a legit #2 option.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

That is a non-sequitor.  You can both play defense and have legit #2 options like Milwaukee last season.  I'm not arguing that our defense doesn't need to improve - just that this is largely unrelated to whether any of our wings transform into a legit #2 option.

exactly.  Dallas has 6 double digit scorers in the playoffs and 2 guys averaging >20/game.  One >30.     I'm all for more defense but not if they can't score.  We've got Trae and a bunch of role players right now.  That's not contending.   

[h4wkfan]

@NBASupes

ever hear of rumblings about Jamal Murray being available? Or does Denver want to wait and see that team healthy with jokic first?

although on the smaller side for playing the 2 - he is strong and quick enough I think he’d be fine. And he’d play just fine off of trae. Assuming his knee comes back to full strength. 

[kg01]

Ya'll boys 'n gals out here talkin' about the Suns shoppin' Ayton.  But what about the dude that really came up schmall when it counted?  Booker look'd like he had his trip to Cancun all pre-book'd.

Sell high, suns!

[AUhawksfan]

I wonder if Portis is more willing to leave with the Bucks out of the playoffs now. He’s not the ball handler we need but he could do a lot to shore up some of the defense that Bogi and Huerter don’t provide, as well as the rebounding Hunter rarely provides. 

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ya'll boys 'n gals out here talkin' about the Suns shoppin' Ayton.  But what about the dude that really came up schmall when it counted?  Booker look'd like he had his trip to Cancun all pre-book'd.

Sell high, suns!

He definitely didn't rise to the challenge but they threw a lot of bodies at him.  If we had a wing that commanded that kind of attention, Trae would be feasting.  Part of our issue is that defenses don't pay attention like that to anyone but Trae.

[Peoriabird]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is a non-sequitor.  You can both play defense and have legit #2 options like Milwaukee last season.  I'm not arguing that our defense doesn't need to improve - just that this is largely unrelated to whether any of our wings transform into a legit #2 option.

It's not the end all be all that y'all making it out to be otherwise the nets team would still be playing

[Atlantaholic]

15 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I wonder if Portis is more willing to leave with the Bucks out of the playoffs now. He’s not the ball handler we need but he could do a lot to shore up some of the defense that Bogi and Huerter don’t provide, as well as the rebounding Hunter rarely provides. 

Portis and Collins are a bit redundant. And despite what the perception is of both in this forum, Collins is the better player overall.