The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

EPMs are missing D and you gots to chill. 

The crossover

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

We were 27th in defense last season. We had to do something. Kevin's offensive impact was being overshadowed by his defensive incompetence. Trae could make up for his poor defense with offensive brilliance. If Kevin was more consistent and aggressive on offense, he could've too.

The real truth is that AJ Griffin may be able to easily reproduce Kevin's 3 point offense off the bench.

Right, forget Holiday. The writing should have been on the wall after we drafted 2 guys at his exact same position.

Clearly we are not satisfied with what we were getting from the wing position.

 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

Harkless is so bad he's not worth talking about. 

Holiday was bad last season. He's what 40 years old now? I'm trying to think of how many fringe NBA players actually get better when they are old and getting worse. I can't really think of any.

If we really did this trade just to get cheaper then I have every right to be upset as a fan. 40 year old Holiday and Mo Harkless aren't anyone's rotation players on a contending team. 

Harkless isn't bad. I actually like his game defensively. Versatility and toughness. He just can't shoot. Reminds me of TLC on the offensive end. But he can lockdown. One of the better man defenders in the league. 

[JTB]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Harkless isn't bad. I actually like his game defensively. Versatility and toughness. He just can't shoot. Reminds me of TLC on the offensive end. But he can lockdown. One of the better man defenders in the league. 

Yeah I thought it was odd that both Soth and Camp was going in on him. He’s actually a good defender like you said. He was a main role piece on that Portland team that went to the WCF not too long ago.

 

i think defensively he’s a big upgrade off the bench compared to what we did have. Offensively as you stated he’s not very good but we may be ok with Bogi and JH offensively off the bench.

[gurpilo]

hace 10 minutos, NBASupes dijo:

Harkless isn't bad. I actually like his game defensively. Versatility and toughness. He just can't shoot. Reminds me of TLC on the offensive end. But he can lockdown. One of the better man defenders in the league. 

I think he is good as a 5th forward, can defend and although is not a good shooter he is 0,33% shooter from 3. He is fine behind Collins, Hunter, Jalen Johnson and AJ or Holiday. The main question mark is if JJ or Griffin or Holiday are fine as 3rd or 4th forwards off the bench.

[gurpilo]

And let me add that DiVincenzo would have been the best piece for our backcourt as 3rd guard for a 5 guards rotation. Provides the chance to make balanced rotations and avoid Trae and Bogi

Trae/Murray

Trae/Donte

Murray/Bogi

Murray/Donte

Holiday/Bogi

Holiday/Murray

Hokiday/Donte…

[HawkingAwesome]

DEFENSE 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, enrique said:

EPM is the most accurate predictive advanced metric we have. It isn't flawless, but pretty solid for a catch-all advanced metric. If you look at the playoff series and outcomes, the teams with the better EPM among the rotation tended to win. Exceptions are teams where you have a beast (Giannis) and injuries remove a key piece of the equation.

I wish there was a way to filter out some of the "noise" from the COVID games. I know most teams dealt with it as well, so honestly I have tended to disregard its impact on the Hawks..."all the other teams dealt with it too." I am not saying that this is, in fact, the reality. But I was letting you know why I didn't concern myself when comparing teams overall depth last year.

I do know that if our younger players developed and stepped up, we would have had an amazing season. Trae's improvements were beyond my hopes. Most of the other players really didn't take big steps up (or some even took a slight step back). I don't have an answer for that other than it is obvious that the Warrior's player development system is lightyears better than most any organizations.  

 

If you swear by EPM ( Estimated Plus/Minus for those who don't know ), we better get DeAndre Hunter the hell off of this team then, seeing that he ranked 10th amongst all Hawks players and 308th in the league overall, posting a horrible ( -2.0 ) EPM.  He was also 258th in the league in Estimated Wins as just 1.0.  Even Delon Wright posted a EW of 1.7

EPM puts Trae right outside the top 10 at 11th overall in the league.   #6 in the league in estimated wins at 14.2. This seems correct.

At least Huerter was average all around.  6th on the Hawks and 168th in the NBA with a EPM of +0.1.  This seems right as well, seeing that Huerter's impact on the game most of the time was neither positive nor negative.

 

I think the notion that we were a "deep team" stemmed from the fact that we could throw Trae - Bogi - Collins - Capela at people, along with Okongwu off the bench.  All of those players were in the top 90 in EPM.  Huerter and Gallo were in the top 200.  But even with all of that, Trae was the only player in the top 50 of EPM. 

As you alluded to, most of your high level playoff teams had at least 2 guys in the top 50.  Boston had 6 players in the top 50.  Golden State had 4 ( with Curry - Draymond - Klay - . . . . and Gary Payton Jr ).

At least with the addition of Dejounte, we potentially add another top 50 EPM player to this roster.  But we still need to have others improve from an impact standpoint, or acquire another impact player.

[Gray Mule]

No one is talking.  Why?

Center position, Atlanta Hawks.  There are too many.  Who is going?  Our newest center, Jock Landate, was part of one of our deals.  He's 25 years old and 6'11" with NBA experience.  

He's never mentioned.  Why?  Did everyone just forget?  What to do with all our centers?  All of them will not be here when the opening bell rings.  JL is way back in the order of things.  Some must go and if it's not him, then he moves up.  Any thoughts, good or bad?

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Gray Mule

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

If you swear by EPM ( Estimated Plus/Minus for those who don't know ), we better get DeAndre Hunter the hell off of this team then, seeing that he ranked 10th amongst all Hawks players and 308th in the league overall, posting a horrible ( -2.0 ) EPM.  He was also 258th in the league in Estimated Wins as just 1.0.  Even Delon Wright posted a EW of 1.7

EPM puts Trae right outside the top 10 at 11th overall in the league.   #6 in the league in estimated wins at 14.2. This seems correct.

At least Huerter was average all around.  6th on the Hawks and 168th in the NBA with a EPM of +0.1.  This seems right as well, seeing that Huerter's impact on the game most of the time was neither positive nor negative.

 

I think the notion that we were a "deep team" stemmed from the fact that we could throw Trae - Bogi - Collins - Capela at people, along with Okongwu off the bench.  All of those players were in the top 90 in EPM.  Huerter and Gallo were in the top 200.  But even with all of that, Trae was the only player in the top 50 of EPM. 

As you alluded to, most of your high level playoff teams had at least 2 guys in the top 50.  Boston had 6 players in the top 50.  Golden State had 4 ( with Curry - Draymond - Klay - . . . . and Gary Payton Jr ).

At least with the addition of Dejounte, we potentially add another top 50 EPM player to this roster.  But we still need to have others improve from an impact standpoint, or acquire another impact player.

Best case scenario for Hawks is internal growth from all of the young guys.  Trae - DJ - JC - OO - Clint - JJ - AG - All of em.  IF they get that, they will grow into contender status of the next couple years, imo.

Obviously we all think JC's time with the Hawks (and maybe Clint and Bogi too) has a definite expiration date, but until and unless they are traded for guys already in the Top 50, they need to focus on that internal improvement if the team is going to be significantly better. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, Gray Mule said:

No one is talking.  Why?

Center position, Atlanta Hawks.  There are too many.  Who is going?  Our newest center, Jock Landate, was part of one of our deals.  He's 25 years old and 6'11" with NBA experience.  

He's never mentioned.  Why?  Did everyone just forget?  What to do with all our centers?  All of them will not be here when the opening bell rings.  JL is way back in the order of things.  Some must go and if it's not him, then he moves up.  Any thoughts, good or bad?

 

 

People will end up loving Jock Landale as a 3rd center on this team.  And I don't think we have too many.  Depending on how Jalen Johnson plays, he has a legit shot to crack this rotation, simply because he plays hard and tough.

As I was saying last year, at some point we do need to see what Okongwu playing the 4 looks like. Does his defense translate out to the perimeter, which may allow the Hawks to potentially be an elite defensive team?  If so, Nate will automatically cut Jalen Johnson's minutes.  And that may open up minutes at the backup center spot for Jock.

Jock isn't an impact player.  He just plays hard out on the floor and he normally doesn't hurt the team when he plays.  And he's another big that is very good as the roll man in the pick and roll.  Jock is a big body that we'll need to go up against the big centers, in order to protect Capela and Okongwu from foul trobule.

 

With Jock's shooting potential, a 2nd team lineup could look like this

• Murray
• Bogi
• Holliday ( although I would definitely try Jalen Johnson at the 3 )
• Okongwu
• Landale ( perimeter shooting from the frontline )

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Yeah I thought it was odd that both Soth and Camp was going in on him. He’s actually a good defender like you said. He was a main role piece on that Portland team that went to the WCF not too long ago.

 

i think defensively he’s a big upgrade off the bench compared to what we did have. Offensively as you stated he’s not very good but we may be ok with Bogi and JH offensively off the bench.

I think it's the return for Huerter that they were disappointed with more than anything 

[JayBirdHawk]

Marc Stein

@TheSteinLine

·

9h

 

First two days of NBA free agency are in the books … 58 new contracts reported so far + nine extensions AND six rookie scale signings … totaling an estimated value north of $2.8 billion.

[BangHolman]

33 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

People will end up loving Jock Landale as a 3rd center on this team.  And I don't think we have too many.  Depending on how Jalen Johnson plays, he has a legit shot to crack this rotation, simply because he plays hard and tough.

As I was saying last year, at some point we do need to see what Okongwu playing the 4 looks like. Does his defense translate out to the perimeter, which may allow the Hawks to potentially be an elite defensive team?  If so, Nate will automatically cut Jalen Johnson's minutes.  And that may open up minutes at the backup center spot for Jock.

Jock isn't an impact player.  He just plays hard out on the floor and he normally doesn't hurt the team when he plays.  And he's another big that is very good as the roll man in the pick and roll.  Jock is a big body that we'll need to go up against the big centers, in order to protect Capela and Okongwu from foul trobule.

 

With Jock's shooting potential, a 2nd team lineup could look like this

• Murray
• Bogi
• Holliday ( although I would definitely try Jalen Johnson at the 3 )
• Okongwu
• Landale ( perimeter shooting from the frontline )

 

 

He's way better than the Damion Joneses of the early Trae era

[sturt]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

We were 27th in defense last season. We had to do something. Kevin's offensive impact was being overshadowed by his defensive incompetence. Trae could make up for his poor defense with offensive brilliance. If Kevin was more consistent and aggressive on offense, he could've too.

The real truth is that AJ Griffin may be able to easily reproduce Kevin's 3 point offense off the bench.

Right. Agreed. All of that.

But all of that can be true and still what I said... also... true.

Right?

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Marc Stein

@TheSteinLine

·

9h

 

First two days of NBA free agency are in the books … 58 new contracts reported so far + nine extensions AND six rookie scale signings … totaling an estimated value north of $2.8 billion.

What the... ????? What is that???

[sturt]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Harkless

Those envisioning Harkless as McM's new occupant of the Solo role, I believe are spot on.

[Blunt91]

42 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

People will end up loving Jock Landale as a 3rd center on this team.  And I don't think we have too many.  Depending on how Jalen Johnson plays, he has a legit shot to crack this rotation, simply because he plays hard and tough.

As I was saying last year, at some point we do need to see what Okongwu playing the 4 looks like. Does his defense translate out to the perimeter, which may allow the Hawks to potentially be an elite defensive team?  If so, Nate will automatically cut Jalen Johnson's minutes.  And that may open up minutes at the backup center spot for Jock.

Jock isn't an impact player.  He just plays hard out on the floor and he normally doesn't hurt the team when he plays.  And he's another big that is very good as the roll man in the pick and roll.  Jock is a big body that we'll need to go up against the big centers, in order to protect Capela and Okongwu from foul trobule.

 

With Jock's shooting potential, a 2nd team lineup could look like this

• Murray
• Bogi
• Holliday ( although I would definitely try Jalen Johnson at the 3 )
• Okongwu
• Landale ( perimeter shooting from the frontline )

 

 

     We can do better than Jock Landale.  He had fewer rebounds (although only a very small percentage less) than Dieng did last season.  He played 3.5 minutes more than Gourgi and Gourgi was/is soft as a rebounder.

[Blunt91]

4 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

 

     We can do better than Jock Landale.  He had fewer rebounds (although only a very small percentage less) than Dieng did last season.  He played 3.5 minutes more than Gourgi and Gourgi was/is soft as a rebounder.

Correction it was only 2.5 minutes  but the point still stands neither are good rebounders and we can do a little better than both of them.

[Spud2nique]

29 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

He's way better than the Damion Joneses of the early Trae era

I’m sorry I don’t know him.