The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

OMG...Simmons is not an elite rebounder or shot blocker. Not even an elite playmaker. Stop making him into something he is not.

The crazy thing is that Simmons would be the exact type of player that you would root for.  He plays team ball. He's big.  And he plays defense.  That's all you've been talking about all of last year.   Oh . . and by adding another ball handler on the team, it takes the ball out of Trae's hands even more.   I know you'd like that.

OK . . so let's forget calling Ben a center.  Just call him a PF.  So we'd have 2 PFs on the floor at the same time, in Simmons and Capela, that could switch at both positions and at least do an adequate job at man defense.

Proposed lineup

• Trae  ( 6 - 1 )
• Murray ( 6 - 5 )
• Hunter ( 6 - 7 )
• Collins ( 6 - 10 ) 
• Simmons ( 6 - 11 )

 

What's the issue?

 

[RedDawg#8]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

A coaching staff would be idiotic not to use some of his playmaking skills with the ball in his hands.

Once again, if a guy like Simmons has the ball, that means a shooter like Trae is off the ball.

So what are you going to do as a defender?  Are you going to let Simmons blow by his man and drive to the basket?  Or are you going to try to prevent that, but leave Trae wide open in the corner for an open 3?

With the way this offense completely bogged down vs Miami, having a 2nd and 3rd ball handler on this team that could score at the rim, would do wonders for this team.

Neither. The scouting report is widely public on Simmons, the moment he gets the ball on the perimeter his defender sinks down below the FT line.

In our case the defense would just cheat over to help on Trae. Or Simmons defender would play free safety and roam. Either way, ain't a single team in the league guarding Ben Simmons one-on-one outside of 15 feet.

He is officially self check until he gets in the low post.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

To be clear, I no longer like the salary fit on Simmons.....BUT.... You have to think of the rotations.  At 6 minutes, Simmons takes a seat and someone subs in. At 9 minutes, Murray takes a seat and BB subs in.  At the start of the 2nd quarter, Trae subs out, Simmons subs back in. At the 9 minute mark, Murray subs back in. At the 6 minute mark, Trae subs back in and Bogi sits. To finish the 2nd at the 3 minute mark Bogi subs back in and Simmons sits. There is a 3 minute window where the only primary ball hander on the floor is Simmons but he has Bogi on the floor with him. 

6 minutes a game, you'd have Simmons + shooter/defenders. 42 minutes a game you'd have 2 to 3 of Simmons, Murray, Trae on the floor all at once. 3 players who've averaged at least 8 assists per game before.  The team would be a nightmare cover. Although Simmons doesn't "shoot", he cuts/attacks with the best of them. There is a reason he's averaged 15.9 ppg for his career.  Its not the worst idea. It also means if either Murray/Young go out for any significant amount of time, you have a built in PG for minutes. Don't crap on it until you fully understand it.

 

[RedDawg#8]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The crazy thing is that Simmons would be the exact type of player that you would root for.  He plays team ball. He's big.  And he plays defense.  That's all you've been talking about all of last year.   Oh . . and by adding another ball handler on the team, it takes the ball out of Trae's hands even more.   I know you'd like that.

OK . . so let's forget calling Ben a center.  Just call him a PF.  So we'd have 2 PFs on the floor at the same time, in Simmons and Capela, that could switch at both positions and at least do an adequate job at man defense.

Proposed lineup

• Trae  ( 6 - 1 )
• Murray ( 6 - 5 )
• Hunter ( 6 - 7 )
• Collins ( 6 - 10 ) 
• Simmons ( 6 - 11 )

 

What's the issue?

 

The issue is he is officially only 6’9.

But continue.

I am an OO at Center guy so I don’t think height is a deal breaker for that argument. I just feel like it needs to be genuine. Simmons is 6’9

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Ben Simmons is the same height with and without shoes as John Collins. But for whatever reason the NBA rounds JC’s height down and Simmons height up.

Im not going against your center argument but I just want it to be clear, if Simmons is 6-11 then so is JC.

In reality they are both 6’8.25 barefoot and 6’9 +change in shoes. 

Simmons draft combine

https://www.nbadraft.net/2016-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

JC draft combine

https://www.nbadraft.net/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

Official NBA measurements after they updated everyones height

https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/

Ben and JC are both officially listed as 6’9.
 

I don’t know how his 6-11 height keeps being floated around. He was never that tall.

 

Good stuff about the draft combine measurements.   OK  . . let's shrink Simmons down to 6-9 . . 240 lbs

We're you going to answer the 2nd part of that question, or did you just want to clear up Simmons' real height?

Either way, it's all good.

[GameTime]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

You know he's not really 6'11" right? He's 6'9". 

Simmons next 7'0 Embiid

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

You know he's not really 6'11" right? He's 6'9". 

 

OK . . same question remains. 

Would the 6-9 . . 240 lb Ben Simmons be outclassed at Center vs those players?

 

How and/or why?

[GameTime]

3 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

The issue is he is officially only 6’9.

But continue.

I am an OO at Center guy so I don’t think height is a deal breaker for that argument. I just feel like it needs to be genuine. Simmons is 6’9

Link?

[RandomFan]

45 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So let's play a game. 

 

Would the 6-11 . . . 240 lb Ben Simmons be outclassed at Center vs these players?

• Robert Williams:  6-8 . . 237 lbs
• Al Horford:  6-9  . . . 240 lbs
• Draymond Green: 6-6 . .  230 lbs
• Kevon Looney:  6-9 . . . 222 lbs

If so . . . how and why?

 

As has already been covered, but Simmons is 6'9", not 6'11". Even if he's really 6'10, he's still not built like a center in body type. He does still have a positive wingspan of 7'0", but he's just not built like a center. Plus, Simmons may be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate but he’s done that by his menacing perimeter defense, not his interior defense. 

Defensively his strength is guarding perimeter players. He's great fighting through screens, guarding ball handlers on-ball, wings off-ball, mobile bigs that are perimeter oriented. Guarding the interior is a different skillset. 

He lacks the strength the bang with centers full-time. But more importantly he's not a great help defender or rim protector, the two primary requirements of playing the 5 in most schemes.

Let's compare this to OO who is similar sized, although built differently. Okongwu's strengths are help defense, and rim protection, but what makes him an elite interior defender is also having the ability to step out on the perimeter and do a good job there too. But you wouldn't want to make OO a full-time perimeter defender, it's not his strength and you would be wasting what he is good at. 

It's the opposite with Simmons. He's an elite perimeter defender, possibly the best in the world, that can also play some good interior defense. But you don't want him on the interior full-time because it's not his strength and you would be wasting what he is exceptional at. 

A 6'9" perimeter defender that can guard on-ball and off-ball is a unicorn. A 6'9" guy that isn't a great rim protector or help defender is a dime a dozen in the NBA. THAT is why he isn't a center. It's not that he is completely incapable of doing it; it's that your taking him away from a position of greatness and moving him to a position of mediocrity. 

 

Look, we are both in favor of wanting Simmons. He's just not a center and we shouldn't try to make him one. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by RandomFan

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Simmons next 7'0 Embiid

 

So Embiid is 6-9.5.   Unless it's Embiid's fro that makes him a 7 footer.

 

 

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The crazy thing is that Simmons would be the exact type of player that you would root for.  He plays team ball. He's big.  And he plays defense.  That's all you've been talking about all of last year.   Oh . . and by adding another ball handler on the team, it takes the ball out of Trae's hands even more.   I know you'd like that.

OK . . so let's forget calling Ben a center.  Just call him a PF.  So we'd have 2 PFs on the floor at the same time, in Simmons and Capela, that could switch at both positions and at least do an adequate job at man defense.

Proposed lineup

• Trae  ( 6 - 1 )
• Murray ( 6 - 5 )
• Hunter ( 6 - 7 )
• Collins ( 6 - 10 ) 
• Simmons ( 6 - 11 )

 

What's the issue?

 

Why would I root for this head case? Did you also root for J.R. Rider?

[DawnOfThemBirds]

1 minute ago, RandomFan said:

 

As has already been covered, but Simmons is 6'9", not 6'11". He does still have a positive wingspan of 7'0", but he's just not built like a center. Plus, Simmons may be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate but he’s done that by his menacing perimeter defense, not his interior defense. 

Defensively his strength is guarding perimeter players. He's great fighting through screens, guarding ball handlers on-ball, wings off-ball, mobile bigs that are perimeter oriented. Guarding the interior is a different skillset. 

He lacks the strength the bang with centers full-time. But more importantly he's not a great help defender or rim protector, the two primary requirements of playing the 5 in most schemes.

Let's compare this to OO who is similar sized, although built differently. Okongwu's strengths are help defense, and rim protection, but what makes him an elite interior defender is also having the ability to step out on the perimeter and do a good job there too. But you wouldn't want to make OO a full-time perimeter defender, it's not his strength and you would be wasting what he is good at. 

It's the opposite with Simmons. He's an elite perimeter defender, possibly the best in the world, that can also play some good interior defense. But you don't want him on the interior full-time because it's not his strength and you would be wasting what he is exceptional at. 

A 6'9" perimeter defender that can guard on-ball and off-ball is a unicorn. A 6'9" guy that isn't a great rim protector or help defender is a dime a dozen in the NBA. THAT is why he isn't a center. It's not that he is completely incapable of doing it; it's that your taking him away from a position of greatness and moving him to a position of mediocrity. 

 

I think there was some talk a few years ago that Simmons grew like an inch or 2 after being drafted.

[sturt]

12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

[RandomFan]

3 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

I think there was some talk a few years ago that Simmons grew like an inch or 2 after being drafted.

Maybe. Probably. But that doesn't change anything regarding how Simmons still doesn't possess the skills needed to be a great defensive center. 

And as I keep pointing out, I'm probably the guy that wants us to trade for him the most out of anyone on this forum. I made a trade proposal for him months ago. He's just not best used as a center. 

[RedDawg#8]

11 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Link?

I gave 2 links already you have to back track bud

[Bonkers]

What a chump LOL

 

[sturt]

Just now, sturt said:

 

Still not sold on Medusa, but I cannot not love the attempt to think beyond normal convention.

In sturt world, we're anticipating BRK getting some significant assets coming back to them in the Kyrie and KD trades... essentially, we'd have to see essentially equivalent assets to what we'd get just trading BogBog and Capela to any other team--cheap and futures in front of them--with Medusa effectively serving as the "filler" to make the trade work.

[RedDawg#8]

6 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

I think there was some talk a few years ago that Simmons grew like an inch or 2 after being drafted.

https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/
 

All good, this happened after he was drafted. The year they updated everyone

[bleachkit]

14 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Simmons next 7'0 Embiid

That's your evidence? Ben and LeBron see eye to eye. LeBron is 6'9". For reference Gallo is 6'10", does Ben look an inch taller than Gallo? He doesn't. Ben is 6'9". 

[bleachkit]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So Embiid is 6-9.5.   Unless it's Embiid's fro that makes him a 7 footer.

 

 

You act like they are standing back to back in the picture. I can provide counter photographic evidence if you like.