The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[hazer]

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

We'd be out rebounded by 20 every game and teams would build a high rise in our paint.

Only if your guy De'Andre Hunter didn't do his part on the boards.

Ben Simmons may have some mental issues, but he is not a soft player.  And the 8 rebs per game he averages as a PG, would increase to 9 - 10 rebounds if he played more in the paint ( where he's most comfortable in )

 

This is Ben Simmons last year playing center . . DESTROYING Rudy Gobert

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

49 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Not directed at you bird, but in reading the board today people seem to forget how good Simmons is.

I think most would agree he is talented. What he is not a full time Center, there's a commitment and mindset that comes with it. Most importantly what's going on between his ears and his back surgery as a Center - good luck.

[sturt]

29 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I disagree.

Did you kow that in the past 3 seasons, Bogi and John Collins have shot the exact same percentage from 3?  ( 38.8% ).  We've also seen Okongwu this season looked better than Capela at times on both ends of the floor.  I truly believe that if you give both of these guys more responsiblity, along with the all-around talent that Simmons would bring to the table, that the Hawks could become a team that is a lot more versatile and lethal.

Honestly, Simmons is all I would want back from that Brooklyn team, to enable our young guys to get a chance to develop.

Having 3 legit playmakers on this team ( Trae, Murray, and Simmons ), of which you could keep up to 2 of them on the court at all times, could completely transform this team.

I think our ceiling is 55 wins, if we stay as is right now.  If we keep Collins and acquire Simmons, I think we have a legit shot at 60+ wins.

It's a reasoned case you make.

But economically, I at least want a future asset of some kind to balance out the trade.

 

First, let's acknowledge that all three players have had their unfortunate bouts with injury at times... and set that aside...

 

Primary point:

You're sending out solid assets who have long histories of being positive contributors to the team both in terms of talent and in terms of psychology.

You're bringing back one talent who... broken record alert several times over by now... has a significant history now of being a drag (to be kind) on the psychology of the team... who you really can't rely on in that way based on clear and compelling evidence... he's inclined to pout.

Neither BogBog nor Capela could be further from the pouting realm.

 

Nah, I have to have more. We lose that trade to the degree that one can assess it on this end of the timeline.

[RedDawg#8]

Simmons is a lemon at this point. 
He needs way too much work to justify his price tag.

[RandomFan]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think most would agree he is talented. What he is not a full time Center, there's a commitment and mindset that comes with it. Most importantly what's going on between his ears and his back surgery as a Center - good luck.

Agreed. Which is why I posted this 10 hours ago saying he's not a center. His best position would be a point-forward: at least with our roster.

9 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I'm one of the biggest Simmons fans here and hope we trade for him, but he isn't a center. He can play small ball center, but he doesn't have the wingspan, length, and strength to be a regular rim protecting 5 full time. And he can't really technically be what is considered a small ball 5 either since he has no outside shot to draw the opposing center to the 3 pt line. 

But he can defend 1-4 exceptionally well; perhaps better than anyone else in the NBA. His best position is as a point-forward.  

Okongwu would be our center. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by RandomFan

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

He would be a horrible center for us. Ya'll do know we got Trae Young on defense. Simmons best position is a 4 as long as Trae is on the floor. You gotta have rim protection with Trae at all times. 

 

His best position is absolutely at the 4.  But he can definitely play the 5 . . successfully.

Once again though, teams don't game plan to attack Trae on defense.  They just don't.   They run offene through their best players.  

Even you've said that the Hawks purposely put Trae on the opposing teams weakest offensive player at the 1 - 3 position. This is why we can hide him on defense. 

The big thing that Trae needs to do on defense, is stop falling asleep when he's playing an area of the court, and be aware of where that man is at all times.  This was also Kevin Huerter's fatal flaw defensively.  With Dejounte beside Trae, the days of him having "WOAT" defensive stats, are over.

Simmons at center would force teams to match up with our speed and athleticism . . not us trying to match up with their size.  As good as Jokic and Embiid are, they would have no chance in hell trying to guard Ben at the 5 spot.  On the other end, he could at least stay in front of both guys and force them into tough shots, which is all you could ask for againt those 2 caliber of players.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

This is Ben Simmons last year playing center . . DESTROYING Rudy Gobert

Did you actually watch the entire video? I watched it twice. He had 7 of 26 shot attempts vs Gobert....other than that #15, O'Neal and Bogdanovic guarded him. Philly still lost the game. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

If Ben Simmons was stable and could hit the midrange and some 3's, it would make him more worthwhile.

 

You guys need to see how the league is being played in today's NBA.

If we keep the right player on the frontline who could do that ( Collins ), there is no need for Simmins to extend his range, if he's constantly attacking the rim and passing the ball out for people to take wide open 3s.

[Bonkers]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Did you actually watch the entire video? I watched it twice. He had 7 of 26 shot attempts vs Gobert....other than that #15, O'Neal and Bogdanovic guarded him. Philly still lost the game. 

THIS!!!

[bird_dirt]

Part of me believes bringing in Simmons would completely blow up in our faces. It’s a very good chance it would.  
 

However, I also don’t really care. I would love to see it. It would be such a unique construction, unlike any other I can think of. I want to see what happens. The Hawks would have an opportunity to create a new paradigm, and not just copy what’s already been done before. 
 

If successful, it would be close to impossible for any other team to duplicate any time soon. If it fails? We’ll, honestly, it’s not my money. And it’s not like they couldn’t tear it down and rebuild again. We’ve been through it a million times before and it will happen again. 
 

No more conservative pussyfooting around wasting time to find out we can’t get over the hump until it’s too late. I want to try catching lightning in a bottle.

Edited July 3, 2022 by bird_dirt

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

His best position is absolutely at the 4.  But he can definitely play the 5 . . successfully.

Once again though, teams don't game plan to attack Trae on defense.  They just don't.   They run offene through their best players.  

Even you've said that the Hawks purposely put Trae on the opposing teams weakest offensive player at the 1 - 3 position. This is why we can hide him on defense. 

The big thing that Trae needs to do on defense, is stop falling asleep when he's playing an area of the court, and be aware of where that man is at all times.  This was also Kevin Huerter's fatal flaw defensively.  With Dejounte beside Trae, the days of him having "WOAT" defensive stats, are over.

Simmons at center would force teams to match up with our speed and athleticism . . not us trying to match up with their size.  As good as Jokic and Embiid are, they would have no chance in hell trying to guard Ben at the 5 spot.  On the other end, he could at least stay in front of both guys and force them into tough shots, which is all you could ask for againt those 2 caliber of players.

You always say garbage when it comes to Trae. Dude is always getting attacked on D. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

It would be JC plus either of Capela or Bogi for Simmons and cap filler. I'm good with either player going out. We've long needed to consolidate talent on this roster, and that's what this is. 

Not directed at you bird, but in reading the board today people seem to forget how good Simmons is. True he's not baggage free, but even considering that he's STILL a top 20-30 player. 

Ben is a DPOY quality defender who is as equally adept at on-ball and off-ball D, plus switching. Elite handles, passing, screen setting, rolling to the rim and finishing there. And still only 26 years old. Same age as Murray, two years older than Trae. 

He's elite at everything, except sucking at jumpshooting. But the shooting is why he's only top 20-30 instead of being a top 5 player.

Trae wants Simmons here. Do we think we know better than Trae what a good player looks like? Do we think we know better than Trae about the roster fit or lineup fit with Ben?

C'mon man!

 

I get it.  People just are leery taking a risk on him, seeing how he melted down in the playoffs against us, and how he basically sat out an entire season due to whatever anxiety he was experiencing.

But as you said, the only thing this guy isn't elite at, is shooting the basketball.  The defensive activity that he and Murray could produce alone, would almost be worth the price of admission.  

Capela is great at what he does at center.  But his impact is limited to rim protection and rebounding.  We've seen Capela struggle guarding some of the better centers in the league, while Okongwu has fared much better.  It'll be interesting to see how a 6-11 more athletic and quicker Simmons, would guard a guy like Embiid.  And when Ben gets a defensive rebound, that's almost an automatic 5 on 4 . . 4 on 3 fast break.

Simmons also gives us the ability to switch more on defense ( if Collins is kept ).  Simmons defensive upside is far greater than Capela's, despite Capela having a good impact on our defense.

To me, Fields has to find a way to keep Collins in the mix, to keep the 3 point shooting threat on the frontline.  As many bunnies as we saw Capela blow last year, that all goes away if Simmons gets the ball in those same spots.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think most would agree he is talented. What he is not a full time Center, there's a commitment and mindset that comes with it. Most importantly what's going on between his ears and his back surgery as a Center - good luck.

What are the roles of the modern day NBA center?  And who fits that model the best?

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

37 minutes ago, sturt said:

It's a reasoned case you make.

But economically, I at least want a future asset of some kind to balance out the trade.

 

First, let's acknowledge that all three players have had their unfortunate bouts with injury at times... and set that aside...

 

Primary point:

You're sending out solid assets who have long histories of being positive contributors to the team both in terms of talent and in terms of psychology.

You're bringing back one talent who... broken record alert several times over by now... has a significant history now of being a drag (to be kind) on the psychology of the team... who you really can't rely on in that way based on clear and compelling evidence... he's inclined to pout.

Neither BogBog nor Capela could be further from the pouting realm.

 

Nah, I have to have more. We lose that trade to the degree that one can assess it on this end of the timeline.

 

In other words, you know what we have with Bogi and Capela, and you don't expect the team to get any worse if they're on the floor.

With Simmons, the team could get worse if all of his issues aren't fixed . . or could get exponentially better if they are.

 

My ace in the hole is that, while undersized, Okongwu could come close to duplicating what Capela already does . . if not more.  And Murray brings much more to the table than Bogi, who basically only brings 3 point shooting and the right mindset toward the game.

I'll even go a step further.  I think this squad has more potential . . 

Trae - Murray - Hunter - Collins - Okongwu

Than this squad

Trae - Bogi - Hunter - Collins - Capela

 

So even if something happened with Simmons, I still think we're better off with Murray and Okongwu being starters, than Bogi and Capela.  And as for the bench, you need 3 guys who can step up to be decent rotation players.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What are the roles of the modern day NBA center?  And who fits that model the best?

You either are a Rim protector, a big body bruiser amd physical or a floor spreader.

[RandomFan]

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I get it.  People just are leery taking a risk on him, seeing how he melted down in the playoffs against us, and how he basically sat out an entire season due to whatever anxiety he was experiencing.

But as you said, the only thing this guy isn't elite at, is shooting the basketball.  The defensive activity that he and Murray could produce alone, would almost be worth the price of admission.  

Capela is great at what he does at center.  But his impact is limited to rim protection and rebounding.  We've seen Capela struggle guarding some of the better centers in the league, while Okongwu has fared much better.  It'll be interesting to see how a 6-11 more athletic and quicker Simmons, would guard a guy like Embiid.  And when Ben gets a defensive rebound, that's almost an automatic 5 on 4 . . 4 on 3 fast break.

Simmons also gives us the ability to switch more on defense ( if Collins is kept ).  Simmons defensive upside is far greater than Capela's, despite Capela having a good impact on our defense.

To me, Fields has to find a way to keep Collins in the mix, to keep the 3 point shooting threat on the frontline.  As many bunnies as we saw Capela blow last year, that all goes away if Simmons gets the ball in those same spots.

BEN SIMMONS IS NOT A CENTER!!!

Full stop.

[TRW]

I like Ben Simmons but the back concerns, the almost 2 year layoff, and his mental is really a problem. We don't need our Atlanta Hawks to become the LeBron/Clutch Hawks. We don't want them trying to control us like they control the Lakers. If we get Simmons then getting Murray wasn't necessary. Although Simmons playing Center is intriguing, it's not worth the gamble. We have to find another shooter preferably at Power Forward if we keep John or two if John is traded.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

30 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Did you actually watch the entire video? I watched it twice. He had 7 of 26 shot attempts vs Gobert....other than that #15, O'Neal and Bogdanovic guarded him. Philly still lost the game. 

 

Yes ma'am, I did.  The Jazz had to switch O'Neal onto Simmons, because he started the game killing Rudy. #15 is Derrick Favors, an undersized but decent defending center.  And he had no chance vs Simmons either.  Simmons had 19 points and 5 assists in the 1st quarter of this game.

And it's just not the shots vs Gobert, it's the fact that Gobert couldn't slow Simmons down at all.  If Simmons wasn't scoring at the rim when Rudy was guarding him, he was passing out to others for wide open shots.   Gobert only had 11 pts - 9 rebs this game, which is an indication that despite the size advantage, he could not take advantage of Simmons, nor Dwight.

 

 

 

As for why the Sixers lost?  It was this guy.   Oh . . and notice the score of the game when the video starts.