Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, terrell said:

So what is Ressler and the front office's plan? Schlenk is just throwing darts at this point..Been saying it.....

Why would you acquire DJM in the off-season and not get ultra aggressive in your roster building while you have Murray on a favorable contract for a couple of years? I don't get what the approach is from ownership on down. 3 or 4 nonshooters in the starting lineup? Thats insane...At least the Rockets had some shooting.....

They will likely have to max out Murray if they want to keep him in a couple of years, and then it only gets more tough financially to surround Trae and DJM with the necessary pieces and firepower to contend for a championship.

The Holidays & Frank are all expiring contracts. Attach a couple second round picks and shop from the worst teams in the league or something. Good grief..

I just saw a stat on statmuse, says Trae has the worst defensive rating of all time. That includes every player in NBA history that played over 1000 minutes. Wow. Not much we can do about that. Its going to ALWAYS be a problem...

Just damn. 

 

The DJM trade was likely the only blockbuster they could make and they did it. I can't get mad at them for that. Murray is a top 25 player. He's the only reason why I know we still got a shot as he can get us a KAT in a trade. 

The Kevin trade was a disaster but then again, keeping Kevin with less minutes could have had trade repercussions so I get it but the return was too weak. They needed a 1st and two role players who can help us from Sacramento. They got had in that deal and everyone in the organization knows it. 

When I call him the defensive WOAT, I get so much static on this site but he proves it time and time again that he's the worst defender in NBA history 

Edited December 8, 2022 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So are we done with trying to get everyone going first, and not our star players?

If we are the reincarnation of the Harden/Westbrook offense, didn't that team win 50+ games?

And when did we start having championship aspirations with this group? The owner didn't go over the tax to add quality depth so this is what we have.

Shoot the ball Trae. And shoot the 

[Gray Mule]

With 3 starters missing the Atlanta Hawks are not very good.

BUT

This is no excuse for all the missed shots in last night's game.  Entering the game, the Knicks was the worst 3 point shooting team in the NBA.  They shot a lot of them and missed only one to give them half of them going in.  Hawks, on the other hand, couldn't hit anything.

IF, big if, Atlanta could have hit a reasonable amount of their shots, we would have lost a close game.  Our three point shooters, Trae, AJ & Bogie were all terrible from downtown.  This had nothing to do with starters being out.  Open 3's being missed.  Gee whiz.

[Gray Mule]

Here's the results from New York:  Three point shooting.

The Knickerbocker team:  17-36

The Hawks big three: Trae, AJ & Bogie: 1-22

Hawks did not show up for the 3 point shooting contest.  

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

So what is Ressler and the front office's plan? Schlenk is just throwing darts at this point..Been saying it.....

Why would you acquire DJM in the off-season and not get ultra aggressive in your roster building while you have Murray on a favorable contract for a couple of years? I don't get what the approach is from ownership on down. 3 or 4 nonshooters in the starting lineup? Thats insane...At least the Rockets had some shooting.....

They will likely have to max out Murray if they want to keep him in a couple of years, and then it only gets more tough financially to surround Trae and DJM with the necessary pieces and firepower to contend for a championship.

The Holidays & Frank are all expiring contracts. Attach a couple second round picks and shop from the worst teams in the league or something. Good grief..

I just saw a stat on statmuse, says Trae has the worst defensive rating of all time. That includes every player in NBA history that played over 1000 minutes. Wow. Not much we can do about that. Its going to ALWAYS be a problem...

Just damn. 

 

I just saw a stat on statmuse, says Trae has the worst defensive rating of all time. That includes every player in NBA history that played over 1000 minutes. Wow. Not much we can do about that. Its going to ALWAYS be a problem... 

Even worse than World be free, Iverson and Freeman Williams?   Damn!  

[AtLaS]

35 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So are we done with trying to get everyone going first, and not our star players?

If we are the reincarnation of the Harden/Westbrook offense, didn't that team win 50+ games?

And when did we start having championship aspirations with this group? The owner didn't go over the tax to add quality depth so this is what we have.

Shoot the ball Trae. And shoot the 

Trae can't shoot this year.  I hope he gets it together, but that Miami series seems to have taken him down a peg mentally.  He just doesn't look the same.  

[NBASupes]

48 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So are we done with trying to get everyone going first, and not our star players?

If we are the reincarnation of the Harden/Westbrook offense, didn't that team win 50+ games?

And when did we start having championship aspirations with this group? The owner didn't go over the tax to add quality depth so this is what we have.

Shoot the ball Trae. And shoot the 

They traded Capela and started winning games because the spacing got better but the defense wasn't as good without Capela. Before that trade, they were never putting 4 quarters together and it was ugly to watch like we are right now

[macdaddy]

I'm moving on 

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

18 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Trae can't shoot this year.  I hope he gets it together, but that Miami series seems to have taken him down a peg mentally.  He just doesn't look the same.  

 

He was OK to start the season, despite the lower shooting percentages.

The one thing about Trae, is that if the ball is in his hands, he can still create offense for others, even if he's not making shots.  That's why in a game in which he goes 9 - 26 FG in, he can still score 34 pts and dish out 10 assists, which accounts for 54+ points of created offense.  Those were his stats in the New Orleans game, which we won.

This whole, move the ball around so that others can stay involved, is all well and good when people are making shots.  But when they don't make shots, you know what else they don't do? 

They don't create shot opportunities for others, and they don't get to the FT line.  Trae can still dominate a game, even when he's not making shots.

To me, something changed the night he scored 42 points on 15 - 32 FG, but was still heavily criticized by some in this fan base, and even sneakily by his coach, for not getting more people involved.  He also made 5 - 10 of his threes that game and only had 2 turnovers.

But because other people want to touch and shoot the ball, they started to whine and cry about it.   The next game was the Toronto game, where he dialed down the aggressiveness and tried to get the ball to other people.  He ends up with 10 turnovers, trying to force passes to people, instead of forcing up shots.  Shots that could possibly be grabbed by Capela, one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.

 

We are what we are folks.  We are a team in which our best two players are our point guards.  Point guards who can score points and create for others.  So until we get people who can constantly knock down open shots, it is what it is.  Keep the ball in Trae's hands, and give him the green light to do whatever he wants.  

 

[Alf]

I am getting so damn tired of us getting out hustled and out worked.No damn excuse for that.Earn your paycheck.

And as has beem said,6-36 from 3?!Pathetic and bad thing is a lot came from good looks.

Made NY look way better than what they are.

Still think we can win division and make some noise playoff wise but something needs to change quickly or this will be a shit season.

[ABH]

We suck

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

I just saw a stat on statmuse, says Trae has the worst defensive rating of all time. That includes every player in NBA history that played over 1000 minutes. Wow. Not much we can do about that. Its going to ALWAYS be a problem... 

Even worse than World be free, Iverson and Freeman Williams?   Damn!  

Not sure what they mean by defensive rating.  Just take a look and you'll see that Collin Sexton and Anfernee Simon have worse defensive ratings for their career than Trae for example.  (I did not research this historically - just looked at a couple of bad perimeter defenders and immediately found these two with worse numbers).  I wouldn't rely on statmuse if they are giving out such easily debunked info.

Sexton 119

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Simon 119

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simonan01.html

Trae 117

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01.html

[TheNorthCydeRises]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They traded Capela and started winning games because the spacing got better but the defense wasn't as good without Capela. Before that trade, they were never putting 4 quarters together and it was ugly to watch like we are right now

 

In that season, they were 44 - 28 overall.   But they were also 9 - 9 after they traded Capela . . compared to 7 - 1 when Capela was hurt or out of the lineup, but still on the team.  Houston thought they had found their answer by playing small and having Westbrook dominate paint scoring.  But they couldn't stop anybody.

One of the reasons why I'm not overly concerned about things, is that as long as our defense stays mostly consistent, we can win games in which our offense struggles.

With Bogi back, we may have to shake up this lineup a little.  Give more time to Vit, due to his passing ability, and less to AJ or JJ ( when they're not effective ).

Or, you simply increase the minutes of the starters + Bogi, and have lineups for the bench that DON'T include either Trae or Dejounte.  Contrary to popular belief, Trae + Dejounte play well with each other, but both of them are struggling playing with the bench units.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

 

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

In that season, they were 44 - 28 overall.   But they were also 9 - 9 after they traded Capela . . compared to 7 - 1 when Capela was hurt or out of the lineup, but still on the team.  Houston thought they had found their answer by playing small and having Westbrook dominate paint scoring.  But they couldn't stop anybody.

 

I was looking at Capela's game log instead of the team's.   

Looks like that Rockets team was actually 10 - 1 without Capela in the lineup, and 15 - 10 without him.

 

So they were fooled, thinking they could be borderline elite without Capela in the lineup, but started to get exposed later in that season.  They went 10 - 2 directly after the Capela trade, but fell off significantly to finish the year, going 5 - 8.

Now did someone get hurt?  I don't know.

 

[benhillboy]

42 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not sure what they mean by defensive rating.  Just take a look and you'll see that Collin Sexton and Anfernee Simon have worse defensive ratings for their career than Trae for example.  (I did not research this historically - just looked at a couple of bad perimeter defenders and immediately found these two with worse numbers).  I wouldn't rely on statmuse if they are giving out such easily debunked info.

Sexton 119

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Simon 119

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simonan01.html

Trae 117

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01.html

They’re putting players up against their team’s ratings from Basketball Reference.  Simons is 3 points below the Blazers, Sexton is 4 points below the Jazz, and Trae is 5 below the Hawks’.  If you don’t care about box, ratings, and 100 possessions there’s nothing to see.

This season is the lowest Trae has been under the Hawks.  Previously -3, -2, -3, and -3.

Edited December 8, 2022 by benhillboy

[JeffS17]

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not sure what they mean by defensive rating.  Just take a look and you'll see that Collin Sexton and Anfernee Simon have worse defensive ratings for their career than Trae for example.  (I did not research this historically - just looked at a couple of bad perimeter defenders and immediately found these two with worse numbers).  I wouldn't rely on statmuse if they are giving out such easily debunked info.

Sexton 119

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Simon 119

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simonan01.html

Trae 117

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01.html

Either way, we're debating if the guy is the worst of all time or just bottom 3 in the entire league.  You can't play that bad on defense while shooting 41%, 29% from three.  His offensive impact is still good but it needs to be elite for us to make any noise, which requires him shooting better (especially with the volume of shots he's putting up).

 

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So are we done with trying to get everyone going first, and not our star players?

If we are the reincarnation of the Harden/Westbrook offense, didn't that team win 50+ games?

And when did we start having championship aspirations with this group? The owner didn't go over the tax to add quality depth so this is what we have.

Shoot the ball Trae. And shoot the 

He's third in the league in FGA per game -- what more do you want?  

[shakes]

1 hour ago, ABH said:

We suck

[benhillboy]

26 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

They’re putting players up against their team’s ratings from Basketball Reference.  Simons is 3 points below the Blazers, Sexton is 4 points below the Jazz, and Trae is 5 below the Hawks’.  If you don’t care about box, ratings, and 100 possessions there’s nothing to see.

This season is the lowest Trae has been under the Hawks.  Previously -3, -2, -3, and -3.

Before the edit cut off time rudely interrupted me, Trae’s difference in offensive rating versus the Hawks in his career has been -1, +7, +1, +2, and this season +1.  

Edited December 8, 2022 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

49 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

In that season, they were 44 - 28 overall.   But they were also 9 - 9 after they traded Capela . . compared to 7 - 1 when Capela was hurt or out of the lineup, but still on the team.  Houston thought they had found their answer by playing small and having Westbrook dominate paint scoring.  But they couldn't stop anybody.

One of the reasons why I'm not overly concerned about things, is that as long as our defense stays mostly consistent, we can win games in which our offense struggles.

With Bogi back, we may have to shake up this lineup a little.  Give more time to Vit, due to his passing ability, and less to AJ or JJ ( when they're not effective ).

Or, you simply increase the minutes of the starters + Bogi, and have lineups for the bench that DON'T include either Trae or Dejounte.  Contrary to popular belief, Trae + Dejounte play well with each other, but both of them are struggling playing with the bench units.

 

Other than adding when he was hurt and not playing which he got traded hurt, we said the same thing. 

I don't find a easy fix for the Hawks. You can't add Bogi without killing something even if something that's killing us becomes better. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

He was OK to start the season, despite the lower shooting percentages.

The one thing about Trae, is that if the ball is in his hands, he can still create offense for others, even if he's not making shots.  That's why in a game in which he goes 9 - 26 FG in, he can still score 34 pts and dish out 10 assists, which accounts for 54+ points of created offense.  Those were his stats in the New Orleans game, which we won.

This whole, move the ball around so that others can stay involved, is all well and good when people are making shots.  But when they don't make shots, you know what else they don't do? 

They don't create shot opportunities for others, and they don't get to the FT line.  Trae can still dominate a game, even when he's not making shots.

To me, something changed the night he scored 42 points on 15 - 32 FG, but was still heavily criticized by some in this fan base, and even sneakily by his coach, for not getting more people involved.  He also made 5 - 10 of his threes that game and only had 2 turnovers.

But because other people want to touch and shoot the ball, they started to whine and cry about it.   The next game was the Toronto game, where he dialed down the aggressiveness and tried to get the ball to other people.  He ends up with 10 turnovers, trying to force passes to people, instead of forcing up shots.  Shots that could possibly be grabbed by Capela, one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.

 

We are what we are folks.  We are a team in which our best two players are our point guards.  Point guards who can score points and create for others.  So until we get people who can constantly knock down open shots, it is what it is.  Keep the ball in Trae's hands, and give him the green light to do whatever he wants.  

 

That's not gonna work with this personnel which it did offensively over the previous years.