The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

This was on hoopshype. #apologize #nopodcasteverlisten

Hello San Antonio.  (They're under the salary cap).

[thecampster]

15 minutes ago, Watchman said:

You'd really pay Simmons $35 million a year?  Really?

For the right deal, yes?

I'm going to try to explain this as best I can.

When Trae is trapped, and with DJ off the floor, or with DJ on the floor without Trae, there is no one they gives the ball up to that can take advantage of driving lanes. We lose our entire drive and kick opportunity. We lose the lob and the floater.

Ben Simmons is a freak and at his best receiving a pass moving toward the basket.  Not just because he's impossible to stop physically with the ball in his hands, but because he is capable of passing / dribbling while moving in traffic.  In our current sets, if our PGs give up the ball, they can't get it back to spot up (DJ gets more of these than Trae due to height but still few).  We are movement stagnant on offense. Not the case when you add Simmons on the floor for either of the other 2. It isn't that you lose Bogi's shooting and replace it with Simmons. Its that Simmons gives you someone who must be stopped from dribbling and that requires a double team and increases off ball shots for Trae/DJ.

On the defensive side of the ball, Simmons has a length problem few can match. he disrupts lanes, creates havoc.  Brooklyn's record this year has a lot to do with once Simmons got healthy, they were finally at least average defensively, allowing Durant and Irving's offense to carry them.  

I have always been a Simmons fan at what he does despite his shooting. Do I want to pay him $35 million a year, no...but Simmons + Curry IMHO > JC/Bogi from an impact perspective and that's the salary tradeoff you're looking at.

 

More importantly, JC/Bogi for for Simmons/Curry is netting you at least 1 of those 1st Brooklyn just got.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by thecampster

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, sturt said:

Bleach called it. Totally.

 

(ie, that was the Bic lighter moment in our recent discourse.)

 

Look, I wasn't going to get into it, but the mock victory lap begs for some context.

Lesson probably not learned, but if ya wanna know why it's good to couch your comments in some degree of intellectual humility like that you might not  have it exactly correct? Yeah. Call it semantics, but I call it talking like you know you're just a regular person who gets some things right, gets some things wrong.

I was being tongue-in-cheeck. Predicting we would get outbid for KD hardly deserves plaudits. That's the safe bet just based on simple math. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by bleachkit

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

regular person

Spudstadamus #myname

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

Bleach called it. Totally.

 

(ie, that was the Bic lighter moment in our recent discourse.)

 

Look, I wasn't going to get into it, but the mock victory lap begs for some context.

Lesson probably not learned, but if ya wanna know why it's good to couch your comments in some degree of intellectual humility like that you might not  have it exactly correct? Yeah. Call it semantics, but I call it talking like you know you're just a regular person who gets some things right, gets some things wrong.

If I mail the Crowder thing I’m a shoe in for squawk hall of fame, not that I’m not in already, my numbers speak for themselves.

[JayBirdHawk]

Joe Cowley: Keep on eye on Atlanta. Was told that teams are waiting for them to show their hand today. The Hawks can make the market get very interesting.

 

– via Twitter JCowleyHoops

[sturt]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Predicting we would get outbid

 

Is that what you did? Oh.

I thought you said it wouldn't happen at all.

And/but even if it did, other teams' offers would be so superior to anything we could offer, which I took to mean, in effect, "Why are we even talking about this like it's some possibility that could ever happen?"

 

Got you wrong. I apologize.

 

[Watchman]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

For the right deal, yes?

I'm going to try to explain this as best I can.

When Trae is trapped, and with DJ off the floor, or with DJ on the floor without Trae, there is no one they gives the ball up to that can take advantage of driving lanes. We lose our entire drive and kick opportunity. We lose the lob and the floater.

Ben Simmons is a freak and at his best receiving a pass moving toward the basket.  Not just because he's impossible to stop physically with the ball in his hands, but because he is capable of passing / dribbling while moving in traffic.  In our current sets, if our PGs give up the ball, they can't get it back to spot up (DJ gets more of these than Trae due to height but still few).  We are movement stagnant on offense. Not the case when you add Simmons on the floor for either of the other 2. It isn't that you lose Bogi's shooting and replace it with Simmons. Its that Simmons gives you someone who must be stopped from dribbling and that requires a double team and increases off ball shots for Trae/DJ.

On the defensive side of the ball, the trade Simmons has a length problem few can match. he disrupts lanes, creates havoc.  Brooklyn's record this year has a lot to do with once Simmons got healthy, they were finally at least average defensively, allowing Durant and Irving's offense to carry them.  

I have always been a Simmons fan at what he does despite his shooting. Do I want to pay him $35 million a year, no...but Simmons + Curry IMHO > JC/Bogi from an impact perspective and that's the salary tradeoff you're looking at.

 

More importantly, JC/Bogi for for Simmons/Curry is netting you at least 1 of those 1st Brooklyn just got.

 

Why would the other team have to stop Simmons' dribble?  He won't shoot it, not even a layup.  No need to even guard him.  They can then double team Trae or Murray.  If he was being paid what Justin Holiday is being paid, it might be worthwhile, but not at almost 6 times  that.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Watchman

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Joe Cowley: Keep on eye on Atlanta. Was told that teams are waiting for them to show their hand today. The Hawks can make the market get very interesting.

 

– via Twitter JCowleyHoops

Only CHI reporter I trust is KC Johnson.  Cowley is a hack. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Why would the other team have to stop Simmons' dribble?  He won't shoot it, not even a layup.  No need to even guard him.  They can then double team Trae or Murray.

This simply isn't true though.  Even if it is, teams are procedurally dumb on defense.  Witness how many teams doubleteam non-threats in the post and leave shooters open at the 3 time and again.

To be clear, there's something wrong with Simmons so acquiring him is a bet that he'd figure 'it' out "enough".  But he's not worthless out there.

[sturt]

My problem with Medusa Simmons has always been, at the risk of stating the obvious, he has beautiful and unique traits from afar... until you look close enough to see that's not hair, them's some damn venomous snakes protruding from his scalp.

If this were baseball, where what you spend is just a matter of your owner's uber-wealth and degree of miserly-ness, I'd be all in on a guy like him... because there are no consequences to me, a common fan of the team.

Basketball, of course, when you make a $35m bet on a player, it has impact to what you can do with the rest of your roster. You can't make $35m mistakes if Antony P. Ressler is your owner. You just can't.

Great prize. Too enormous a risk.

[thecampster]

 

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Why would the other team have to stop Simmons' dribble?  He won't shoot it, not even a layup.  No need to even guard him.  They can then double team Trae or Murray.

Simmons is a monster moving toward the basket.  The above is just not true.  The Hawks penetration, dribble drive was light years better than Brooklyn's this season. Simmons average 6.4 apg this year for the Nets(in just 27 minutes)...there is a reason for that.  His per 36 numbers this year are:  9.6, 8.5, 8.4, 1.9.  Its the reb/assists/steals you're looking for there.  He's 56.6% from the floor this year, mainly because he limits himself to around the basket plays.  Its not pay him or not. It's you're tied to Collins for 3 more years at $25ish million and Bogi can opt in for another year at 18 million.  You're already doling out $43 million for 2 players who have been net negative.  Simmons is an instant improvement as is more AJ on the floor instead of Bogi.  We get better defensively.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Is that what you did? Oh.

I thought you said it wouldn't happen at all.

And/but even if it did, other teams' offers would be so superior to anything we could offer, which I took to mean, in effect, "Why are we even talking about this like it's some possibility that could ever happen?"

 

Got you wrong. I apologize.

 

Several of our future picks are tied up in the Murray deal. Nets weren't going to settle for anything less than a bounty of picks, which we didnt have to offer. Unless we lost our minds and gave them Trae, I dont see how we could trump the Sun's deal. Mikal Bridges is one of the best defensive wings in the game, and a solid offensive player to boot. Personally, I dont think we were close. You can think what you like. 

[shakes]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Only CHI reporter I trust is KC Johnson.  Cowley is a hack. 

take it from someone from Chicago this is 100% true.     KC Johnson sucks as well, but Cowley is the absolute worst.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

 We get better defensively.

And offensively despite Simmons' shortcomings.  Only flaw I see is the assumption AJ gets more time.  Gotta trade Holiday for picks to force iRobot's hand there.  Jmho 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

Simmons is a monster moving toward the basket.  The above is just not true.  The Hawks penetration, dribble drive was light years better than Brooklyn's this season. Simmons average 6.4 apg this year for the Nets(in just 27 minutes)...there is a reason for that.  His per 36 numbers this year are:  9.6, 8.5, 8.4, 1.9.  Its the reb/assists/steals you're looking for there.  He's 56.6% from the floor this year, mainly because he limits himself to around the basket plays.  Its not pay him or not. It's you're tied to Collins for 3 more years at $25ish million and Bogi can opt in for another year at 18 million.  You're already doling out $43 million for 2 players who have been net negative.  Simmons is an instant improvement as is more AJ on the floor instead of Bogi.  We get better defensively.

How do you see Simmons as a lob threat?  Would he make a good pnr partner?

[sturt]

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Personally, I dont think we were close.

I have no knowledge at all about any of it. Of course.

I'm left to believe what I'm told by reliable sources, with the operative adjective being "reliable."

 

 

Depends, I suppose, on how much one prefers his/her own omniscience over the intel coming from people who, many are persuaded, have actual real world insight.

 

 

That said, and at the risk of repeating myself, it is not hard for me to believe that KD is precisely the kind of asset that Antony P. Ressler would have frothed at the mouth to pay luxury tax to get. This was my fear... that this FO and owner would so value that asset that the overpay would be enormous and absurd.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, kg01 said:

And offensively despite Simmons' shortcomings. Only flaw I see is the assumption AJ gets more time. Gotta trade Holiday for picks to force iRobot's hand there. Jmho 

 

 

Simmons and Clint - how do you see that working?

[Diesel]

Damn.. Mavs beat the Clipps last night. 

No Luka...

That's a big time start for the KI years.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

 

Simmons is a monster moving toward the basket.  The above is just not true.  The Hawks penetration, dribble drive was light years better than Brooklyn's this season. Simmons average 6.4 apg this year for the Nets(in just 27 minutes)...there is a reason for that.  His per 36 numbers this year are:  9.6, 8.5, 8.4, 1.9.  Its the reb/assists/steals you're looking for there.  He's 56.6% from the floor this year, mainly because he limits himself to around the basket plays.  Its not pay him or not. It's you're tied to Collins for 3 more years at $25ish million and Bogi can opt in for another year at 18 million.  You're already doling out $43 million for 2 players who have been net negative.  Simmons is an instant improvement as is more AJ on the floor instead of Bogi.  We get better defensively.

Sorry, all I can see in my head is him refusing to drive to a wide open basket to dunk or lay it up, while Embiid glared at him, and people like Shaq saying they would have knocked him on his rear end (actually not using such nice words) if they were his teammate.   

[kg01]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Simmons and Clint - how do you see that working?

Heeey.... I don't claim to have all the answer here.  This is the part of our group presentation where I stall and wait for @thecampster to jump in and save me since I didn't do the work or come to any of the meetings ....