2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[JayBirdHawk]

....Teams aren't willing to overpay. Good - as it should be.

 

Siakam wants to stay and extend, but Raps don't have a direction, so they are unwilling to extend? What a mess!

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....Teams aren't willing to overpay. Good - as it should be.

 

Many Hawks fans are though

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

Danny Manning 2.0

What's funny is that DM became "meh" right after that whole ordeal.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Many Hawks fans are though

Is that really true though?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Is that really true though?

Giving up anything of value for a none difference making rental is too much so yes

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Giving up anything of value for a none difference making rental is too much so yes

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

10th seed last year

[warcore]

Hey DuduTang-OG....

Siakam sucks. Raps suck. Masai sucks. And everyone in the states knows that troll under the bridge is spewing out Masai garbage -- no real substance. Y'all are going nowhere and you're not getting back what your delusions suggest for Siuckem.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

10th seed last year

So you've never seen a 2nd tier player change teams and improves that team? Some players aren't built to be #1s.

See Andrew Wiggins and Aaron Gordon.

You have faith in Quin? If you do, wouldn't you have faith in him to put a system in place WITH him that actually works?

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

10th seed last year

If that logic was legit teams would not want to add Dame or Luka or Trae for that matter since they all had records equal to or worse than 41-41.  But they clearly do want to add players from teams with records of .500 or lower where they think those players are talented.  Given that Siakam was an All-Star last year and All-NBA the year before, I think you can take it as a given that he is viewed as a desirable and talented player.  What really crushes his value is the fact that he will be an expiring contract after this season, that he will want a lot of money, and that he is giving no one any assurances he won't just walk in FA.  If he was under a non-max contract like JC and DH are, he would be drawing very significant offers.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

What really crushes his value is the fact that he will be an expiring contract after this season, that he will want a lot of money, and that he is giving no one any assurances he won't just walk in FA.  If he was under a non-max contract like JC and DH are, he would be drawing very significant offers.

[kg01]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....Teams aren't willing to overpay. Good - as it should be.

 

Siakam wants to stay and extend, but Raps don't have a direction, so they are unwilling to extend? What a mess!

He's basically reverse-Harden.  Instead of tryna angle a spot onto another team, he's teyna hold onto his spot on the team that no longer wants him.

It's kinda sad and weird at the same time.  TOR needs to hang onto whatever high end talent they get.  It's not like they've been able to build through the draft.  What do they think their core of Barnes/Poetl/d*ck is gonna accomplish?

And can I get in before the outright OG trade demand?  Cause ya know thats comin'.. 

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

If that logic was legit teams would not want to add Dame or Luka or Trae for that matter since they all had records equal to or worse than 41-41.  But they clearly do want to add players from teams with records of .500 or lower where they think those players are talented.  Given that Siakam was an All-Star last year and All-NBA the year before, I think you can take it as a given that he is viewed as a desirable and talented player.  What really crushes his value is the fact that he will be an expiring contract after this season, that he will want a lot of money, and that he is giving no one any assurances he won't just walk in FA.  If he was under a non-max contract like JC and DH are, he would be drawing very significant offers.

Hey, have you gotten a deluge of new account requests from hockey-themed email addresses that smell of maple syrup?

Just wondering....

 

[Atlantaholic]

Yup, somewhat unique situation for Siakam on the verge of being a free agent with a super max. Obvious tactic by Siakams camp to scare away trade partners as much as possible, and on the other side Raptors stuck in no man's land with a mediocre squad of young role players that don't fit the timeline of Siakam who is going to turn 30. So Raptors in an obvious sell position and little leverage. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

He's basically reverse-Harden.  Instead of tryna angle a spot onto another team, he's teyna hold onto his spot on the team that no longer wants him.

It's kinda sad and weird at the same time.  TOR needs to hang onto whatever high end talent they get.  It's not like they've been able to build through the draft.  What do they think their core of Barnes/Poetl/d*ck is gonna accomplish?

And can I get in before the outright OG trade demand?  Cause ya know thats comin'.. 

The other difficulty for them is having Siakam, OG and Trent Jr all as FAs next offseason if they do nothing.

If they extend him now - he can't be traded for 6 months.

If they trade him now - he can't be extended for 6 months.

If they don't extend him and he reached FAcy - seems he wants to be back but they don't want him back at either a regular max deal and worse if he gets All NBA and qualify for SuperMax.

They hired a new development coach and he wants to put the ball in Barnes hands.

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The other difficulty for them is having Siakam, OG and Trent Jr all as FAs next offseason if they do nothing.

If they extend him now - he can't be traded for 6 months.

If they trade him now - he can't be extended for 6 months.

If they don't extend him and he reached FAcy - seems he wants to be back but they don't want him back at either a regular max deal and worse if he gets All NBA and qualify for SuperMax.

They hired a new development coach and he wants to put the ball in Barnes hands.

And what's hidden in his desire to stay there is, as @Atlantaholic and others point out, he's literally shooting for supermax.  Like, literally.  For him to get all-NBA, he's gonna have to literally jack up shots.

And guess what else is gonna be jacked up of that happens.  Yep, the Raptors season and whatever development plans they have.

They're between a hard place and a harder place and everyone knows it. 

[LucastheThird]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So you've never seen a 2nd tier player change teams and improves that team? Some players aren't built to be #1s.

See Andrew Wiggins and Aaron Gordon.

You have faith in Quin? If you do, wouldn't you have faith in him to put a system in place WITH him that actually works?

That is the perfect reason why I want KAT. He's not built to carry a team as a #1, but he can push us over the top as a #2 or #3. 

[Spud2nique]

19 minutes ago, kg01 said:

They're between a hard place and a harder place and everyone knows it. 

Masai disagrees, he says he’s fine. 

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Masai disagrees, he says he’s fine. 

Wonder if he thinks that hotseat he's sittin on is just the forest fires.

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, Hawkish said:

So we aren’t waiting on Bufkin to be eligible?

No. The September wait is for Bogi to be eligible to be traded in a potential deal to Minnesota. 

The Siakam situation is bizarre and a little sad. He really wants to stay there...on a supermax deal. The team does not want him there. HIs teammates want him gone so it will be "their" team (Barnes and OG) and his staying there squashes their shots and usage. 

So his camp has tried to sabotage his trade value. It has worked. Teams are not going to give up the farm or anywhere close to it for a pouting good but not great player who is demanding a supermax contract. Oh, and lest we forget reports from his camp leaked a month or so ago that he wouldn't resign with a team that traded for him. He's pulling a reverse Harden by literally forcing the Raptors to keep him because they can't afford to trade him for his actual limited value due to the reasons listed above. His defense, btw, has declined the last two seasons and he's going to hit 30 this upcoming season.

What front office in their right mind would give up a lot of value for this? Raps fans are in literal denial thinking they are going to get some kind of cornucopia of assets for him.  

Something to consider for all of us and all teams: remember back when the CBA was designed so only true superstar players got max deals? And under that came the almost but not max deals? With the second apron being a hard cap (and yes, it is a hard cap) we are back to that reality.

Teams can't afford to give out max/supermax deals to players that truly do not deserve it. Siakam is a top 30-40 player in the NBA. Is that supermax? In the old CBA, sure. In the current CBA? Naw, fam. He's not. Teams are now adjusting their financial commitment to players accordingly with the new CBA. There's a reason our guys like Capela, Hunter and Bogi are being asked about in trades. 

We all know how valuable rookie deal rotation players are. They are basically platinum value in the new CBA. Proven veterans that are making good but not great money? Yep, that's the new muscle car out there. We've got three of them. We just traded a fourth and had we not squandered his trade value we could have gotten more. 

So guys like Capela, Hunter, Bogi have far more trade value than Siakam as a result. They are good players locked into long term deals that also aren't "the face of franchise" guys or demand a lot of usage. They are more valuable by a considerable margin than Siakam.

Quite frankly I would pass on Siakam in the Hawks FO and go after KAT or simply wait (I know some of you don't want to hear this) to see if another trade presents itself. Our guys value is not going to go down. We really can afford to wait things out and let our young guys (OO, JJ, AJ, Kobe) prove themselves.