Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nate's gone. It's now Quin's time to install his offense and defense and get the players needed to run it.

This is greatly needed but we need to see Trae massively improve to be effective in Quins system

[Gray Mule]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

To be a superstar yes.  He is anointed superstar status even without the efficiency which is the one metric that separates the superstar from the non superstar

If he didn't have any room for improvement I would argue with you.  As good as he is, he can improve.  He's considered a superstar by many.  He's paid as a superstar.  He has a great following, especially with the youth.

A superstar, I believe, leads his team to high places.  He can and we count on him to do this.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This is greatly needed but we need to see Trae massively improve to be effective in Quins system

We need EVERYONE to improve and buy into whatever Quin's system is going to be.

As an aside.......what did you think about thecampster's rumored insider post from back in May on 'Hunter being resistant to Quin's defensive strategy?'  

 

Quote

The stuff with Quinn and DH.  It was a thing. Its still a thing. DH likes to stick with his man after the ball leaves his man's hand. He takes pride in it. The willingness to give up on guarding the best offensive wing in exchange for scheme bothered him. He took it as "wait, you don't think I'm good enough to guard their best through a screen, through a post up? He got down for about a week. Mumbled under his breath in practice a lot like he does when getting called for fouls.  Led to he and Quinn having a 1 on 1 in the presence of other coaches.

Dre sucked it up for the good of the team but was never 100% on board and has been the slow wheel in the concept and it showed vs Boston. He got stuck multiple times trying to guard  JB and Tatum and didn't give up and take the other.  Early in the series, Derrick White was running roughshot as the man out on switches/rotations and that's all on Dre not passing his man off in screens and accepting the 2nd/3rd role.

One part of that role is after the pick, the man picked off is supposed to drop back toward the lane to interrupt the cutter. Dre would stick through too long and White would get under...

@NBASupes

[givemesome1ce1]

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Trae young just averaged 30 points and 10 assists in the playoffs this season. He had the worst spacing this season by far since his rookie year (which contributed to his lower efficiency) and still averaged 26 points and 10 assists. He led the league in total assists for 3 years in a row now. He was all-nba last year and carried the team to the playoffs last year. And we have people STILL debating whether or not Trae Young is a star and is worth the contract? What are we doing here? 

[deester11]

24 minutes ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Trae young just averaged 30 points and 10 assists in the playoffs this season. He had the worst spacing this season by far since his rookie year (which contributed to his lower efficiency) and still averaged 26 points and 10 assists. He led the league in total assists for 3 years in a row now. He was all-nba last year and carried the team to the playoffs last year. And we have people STILL debating whether or not Trae Young is a star and is worth the contract? What are we doing here? 

The logic of hate for him (Trae) is stupid af. Opinions matter...I guess to some. But it's exhausting having people actually say Trae is Hunters problem, yada yada.  How about Hunter grow some nutz and play with passion.  Defensive specialist my arse. I'm in anti -Hunter boat. People saying he can improve, he'll be better under Quinn, but question Trae's ability to be even better? The logic is stunning.

[JustSomeGuy]

@Peoriabird so superstars must be efficient?

I guess Allen Iverson and his 42%/31% shooting splits make him less than a superstar. How about Carmelo Anthony who had several season shooting under in the low 40s/low 30% from 3? Russell Westbrook? D. Wade’s career 29% 3 pt percentage. Luka… career 33% from 3.

Efficiency only tells part of the story. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by JustSomeGuy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

16 hours ago, thecampster said:

You and I agree an awful lot but then you go and say something like this.

 

I have friends all over from different NBA cities. To a man they all say they with they had Trae Young.  I have a friend from New York who says he absolutely hates Trae Young and at the same time hates that he isn't a Knick.  Trae is a must see villain to a lot of NBA fans.  Many of them admit that if he played in LA or Boston, he'd shoot 10 more free throws a game and lead the league in every offensive category. 

 

If he were traded tomorrow, I'd still be a fan of the Hawks, but I'd be afraid every time he came to State Farm he'd hang 40/15 on us. Trae is like that little princess from Wreck it Ralph.  Every time you think you've got him beat, he glitches and blinks through the wall.  People hate him because they don't understand how he does what he does to their team.

Trae's current pace in points and assists slates him to be top 10 all time in both categories. If (and its a big if with point guards), he plays to 35, Trae could reasonably finish top 2 in assists all time and finish top 10 in points.  That's a superstar my friend.

The man has played 5 NBA seasons, 70.6 games per year. He's totaled 8990 points and 3285 assists. Top 10 in points is 27,490, Moses Malone.  That's possible.  Top 10 in assists is Isaiah Thomas at 9061.  One referee's ankle kept him from the finals in his 3rd season. Rules changes were made specifically because he was looking like a video game exploit. When the league changes their offenses rules in response to you, you're a superstar. Its that simple.

 

What a beautiful post!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I love how Trae is all of a sudden measured against the champion .  In a way it’s like they know themselves that he’s a top 10 talent in the league so every “best player/flavor of the year” whether it’s Giannis or the Joker . It certainly means Trae is doing something right.

Thanks Trae haters! Keep going. He likes it, we like it, you motivate! #traebestpgsinceMAGICJOHNSON

 

Not just against the champion . . . but against guys who are literally a foot taller than him. 

Like a 6 foot guard can have the same type of defensive impact as a 7 footer . . . who disrupts shots in the paint and gets defensive rebounds to end opponent offensive possessions.

Judge him against other star PGs similar in stature ( 6-4 and under ).  Who is the top guy and his offensive / defensive metrics?  Then judge Trae off of that.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You make all the stupid statement you want.  My statement still stands...In order for this team to be better, Trae must perform better along with the rest of the squad particularly Murray, Capela and Hunter

 

But I think the entire fan base can agree to this.

Once again though . . . Trae getting better means that he's a MVP candidate.  Others getting better means they're either better role players, or have a chance to make an All-Star team.

Wouldn't it be great for Trae to average 30 ppg - 10 asst . . . on 48% FG - 38% 3FG . . . with 2 stls and 3 turnovers per game?

Wouldn't it also be great for Dre to make one of the All-Defensive teams, while shooting 50% FG and 40% 3FG on 17 ppg?

It's wild that people want the 6 foot PG to be the defensive leader of the team.  But it is what it is.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We need EVERYONE to improve and buy into whatever Quin's system is going to be.

As an aside.......what did you think about thecampster's rumored insider post from back in May on 'Hunter being resistant to Quin's defensive strategy?'  

 

@NBASupes

 

I missed this.

 

To me, this is a clear indication that Dre wants to take the lazy way out.

( crying ) - "I don't wanna switch or play help defense!  I just want to stay on my man and watch everyone else scramble!  I don't wanna!!  I don't wanna!!"

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[Final_quest]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Such a selfish player, just needs to improve.  We should sign a roster full of -3.3 BPM players at half the cost of Trae.  

[AHF]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:07 PM, JustSomeGuy said:

@Peoriabird so superstars must be efficient?

I guess Allen Iverson and his 42%/31% shooting splits make him less than a superstar. How about Carmelo Anthony who had several season shooting under in the low 40s/low 30% from 3? Russell Westbrook? D. Wade’s career 29% 3 pt percentage. Luka… career 33% from 3.

Efficiency only tells part of the story. 

I'm actually going to back Peo and say that guys whose biggest value is their scoring and who can't score efficiently aren't true superstars.

Of this group, AI and Westbrook fall into that category for most of their career.  Carmelo wasn't a superstar for the same reason, although he was clearly much more impactful in my eyes when he was scoring more efficiently.  

Luka is an easy one for me as he is a highly efficient scorer despite his 3pt%.  Wade was a standout defender and contributed significantly to his team's rebounding and playmaking as well as his scoring so his prime years with a TS% in the ~.570% range is enough to get him there for me.  I have no problems with them being in a tier above the others you listed.    

Efficiency isn't the full story agreed.  But the more a player's value is tied to his scoring the more important it is that he score efficiently and for guys like AI and Westbrook that just wasn't the case.  

For reference, career numbers:

Trae Young - .580% TS%

Allen Iverson - .518% TS%

Russell Westbrook - .526% TS%

[JustSomeGuy]

Good post and agreed @AHF. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yep.  The point of the tear down was to land a superstar (Trae Young) and collect assets to be used to add stars around that superstar.  Now we have some that don't want to deal those assets.  

Maybe some don't see Trae young as a superstar

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Maybe some don't see Trae young as a superstar

Because they [disagree with me].  

[Let's drop the insults.]

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Because they [disagree with me].

Or could it be that they don't [pay close enough attention to] his actual numbers and performances especially in the playoffs

[RedDawg#8]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Or could it be that they don't [pay attention to] his actual numbers and performances especially in the playoffs

Projection much?

Trae has had 1 bad series when his team was banged up, and that came after 2 monster Play-In games where he proved he was on a different planet than the guys his haters would put above him in Ball/Garland. 

Other than that, Trae has the numbers in the Playoffs that put him, again, in historic company. 

If you dislike his leadership, maturity and style of play, leave it at that, but stop pretending that he is not putting up video game type numbers on the big stage. 

If anything, it shows more about you and your emotions when you can't let Hawks fans actually enjoy their team and their best player without getting butt-hurt about it lol

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yep.  The point of the tear down was to land a superstar (Trae Young) and collect assets to be used to add stars around that superstar.  Now we have some that don't want to deal those assets.  

We still have to define what's a good superstar.   I don't see you pushing for PG13 or Zion...

 

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Projection much?

Trae has had 1 bad series when his team was banged up, and that came after 2 monster Play-In games where he proved he was on a different planet than the guys his haters would put above him in Ball/Garland. 

Other than that, Trae has the numbers in the Playoffs that put him, again, in historic company. 

If you dislike his leadership, maturity and style of play, leave it at that, but stop pretending that he is not putting up video game type numbers on the big stage. 

If anything, it shows more about you and your emotions when you can't let Hawks fans actually enjoy their team and their best player without getting butt-hurt about it lol

He has also made a total of 2 all star appearances in a 5 year career which does not include last year.  Non-all stars can't be considered super stars