Official Game Thread: Hawks at Hornets (7 PM EST) -- The Season Opener!

[kg01]

56 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Holy $hit are Smith n Wesson getting back together? This could be a glorious day in Squawkland. DO IT! and make up life is short.

Aye, what's the deal with all the eastcoast rap resurgence.  I'm out here watching the new TMNT movie with kg04 and 05 and most of the music is late 90's-00's hip hop.  Don't get me wrong, I was bobbin my heat to Ante Up (MOP).

Any more references and that dude @MaceCase gon be out here doin' the rockaway.  Lean back .. lean back .. 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

It will take time. Old habits are hard to break. 

This is what seems the most obvious to me that so many folks are just ignoring.  Even Quin said it after the game, they slipped back into the old way because the new way isn't habitual yet.  They will get there but it's not going to be all sunshine and unicorns straight from the jump. 

I'll predict there's going to be some games where it all works for 4 quarters and they'll look like NBA Champs and then other games like last night where the results will look like trash even if the actual play isn't nearly as bad. The hope here is that by mid season we'll see far more new than old and the team will get rolling into the playoffs.   

[BrazilianHawk]

1 hour ago, Packfill said:

My overreaction post from the first game is that Charlotte will be lucky to win 35 games this season, maybe far less as I see them unloading vets like Rozier at the deadline to pick up assets to build for the future around Melo, Williams and maybe Miller.  

It is one game but these are exactly the types of games - meaning against mediocre teams - the Hawks need to win if they want to rise above .500.

I don't think CHA will win 25, much less 35. It was a terrible loss last night.

[BrazilianHawk]

49 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

The volatility of our shooting gives us a very high ceiling, and a very low floor.  Because of this, there are no guaranteed W's on our schedule even if a team is load managing it's top 4 players.  

The Hornets were very clearly the inferior team but we just couldn't make a damn shot.  I thought we got good looks for the most part, we only had 12 turnovers.  Should've been a fairly boring 10-15 point win if we just shot average.  

We will have plenty of these games this season.  Beat a top team, then lose to a bad team when we can't shoot.  Hopefully we minimize the amount of games where we shoot 10% from three.  

So it will be last season all over again, right?

[AtLaS]

13 minutes ago, BrazilianHawk said:

So it will be last season all over again, right?

I hope not.  We still barely lost and we shot 17% from three on the road.  If we shoot just 30% from three (still bad) i think we win pretty easily.  I can't see us shooting as bad as we did last night very often.  

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I will have to look back at that. I know @thecampster mentioned Hunter didn't dap him when he subbed in for him.

I don't have any way to transfer it to PC without just pulling it on my phone camera but I'll go back and find the clip.

 

[AHF]

[Moderator Hat On]

New season, same old tune.  If you don't have something positive to say about another poster, then don't say anything about other posters.  Talk about the basketball.  Engage with the posts of other posters.  Don't go putting your take on the other poster (this person is biased, this person is a hater, this person is a stan, etc.).  The personal comments bring nothing but friction to the table with zero value add to the discussion.  When the Hawks struggle, we all get frustrated but don't take it out on each other.  Anyone who cares enough to be on this site is a Hawks fan, and we all want to see the team do well.

[Poster Hat On]

For Trae, there were moments of some nice defense but overall this was pretty much exactly what I didn't want to see from Game 1.  Tired of Trae's slow starts to the season every year but that went beyond a slow start.  I don't think it is repeatable (in the sense that there is a zero % chance he ends the season shooting 21% from the floor and 11% from 3) but it is so frustrating.  He has to improve year over year from last season.  And he and DM have to buy into Quin's offense and not revert to this garbage.  (More on that below).

For DM, it is a similar take away from Trae.  Turrible game.  No way he shoots 21% fg% and 0% 3pt% so it is an outlier even if he has a down season overall but that is just brutal.  And leading the team away from Quin ball with Trae is a habit they both must break.

Hunter - Too much of the same old story.  He needs to step it up this season.  It wasn't there in Game 1.   If  you don't think he has a breakout in him, then this game was just one that should be on the weaker side of what to expect from him but not that far off with decent defense and little else.  If you think he has untapped potential, it is a more disappointing effort since we didn't see him being disruptive on D and didn't see him being particularly effective on offense.

Bey - Pretty solid game.  15 points (50% FG%), 5 rebounds, 5 steals.  As a standout guy for effort, I look for him to keep us going in game like this where guys can drop their heads and I think he did what he could.  

CC - Had the worst +/- on the team but that is a SSS thing more than a reflection of him being terrible.  He was about what you would expect last night.  Game was fine but not great from him.  The +/- is more about him only playing with the starters and the starters sucking hard.

Bogi - Weak shooting night (unfortunately it means it compounds with the terrible nights from Trae and DM) but otherwise some nice contributions with his passing, boards, and opportunistic defense.

AJ - Didn't really see enough from him to give feedback.  Looked fine but only 9 minutes.

OO - Led the team in +/- but was a weak game for him.  SSS with the +/- being more about him playing primarily with the bench and the bench being better than the starters.  I expect to see much bigger games from him this  year.  

JJ - The one definitive bright spot.  Heck of a 2023 debut.  He can't be this good every night but this is a really nice building block on what we've seen from him in the pre-season.  Looks like he should run away with the most improved for this team.

Quin - He should come away with reams of film to work over with the team and most of the players.  The second half was replete with "you did this when you should have done that" sorts of moments for most of the team.  He has to get the team fully bought in on his system because we know the Nate "roll the ball out and see what people can create" type of hero ball doesn't work well enough to get us where we want to be.  And the regression to Nate ball made Game 1 a learning moment for the team.  I don't put the blame on Snyder since we saw the team playing a different form of ball all pre-season and we saw some of that this game, but his primary job is getting the team to avoid the regression we saw last night.  I would like to see him start pulling Trae and DM over when they start reverting to Nate ball and see them respond to the direction.  Quin ball has to become the default because otherwise we will be inclined to regress to Nate ball anytime the team is struggling.  It is easier for everyone to stay with Snyder's offense when the shots are falling and the true test is game like this where the team is struggling.  Trae is the single most important person to lead that effort.

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

Part of it also is that when Trae came to the team there wasn't any expectations to win. So, him doing his Trae thing was fun. But yeah, teams have adjusted to Trae. Not to the extent that they will shut him down nightly or anything, but it doesn't feel like the Trae/Cap combo works aswell as it did a few years ago.

I do think Trae can benefit from a big man that can shoot, pass and display versatility. Could you imagine Trae and The Joker? Geez.lol

That's why I keep landing the plane with KAT. Sometimes you need someone take forces you to accept you can't stop what we are elite at doing. 

KAT is elite at PnRs. As is Trae. Capela is an elite PnR finisher but he's fairly limited outside of that and aside from movement whereas Towns also has movement and everything else to really force your hand for a defense. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

Quin ball has to become the default because otherwise we will be inclined to regress to Nate ball anytime the team is struggling.  It is easier for everyone to stay with Snyder's offense when the shots are falling and the true test is game like this where the team is struggling.  Trae is the single most important person to lead that effort.

This...all this!!!

[thecampster]

I was mistaken. It was OO-17 he refused to tap in on. He sees him. Shakes his head no.

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

I would like to see him start pulling Trae and DM over

This is where he has to be more deliberate in calling a specific play to get them back on track.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

1/4 then once the NBA caught on, the 1/5 PnR was our bread and butter but the centers and PFs in this league have gotten so much better in terms of movement and defending PnRs. Games like last night made me instantly realize why I continue to preach the need for KAT for our squad. 

 

Sometimes you need a guy that's going to get his despite the defenses best efforts to shut it down. 

 

I really really like this roster. A lot more than some here do and I considered last year's squad to be the biggest disappointment from the Hawks, even bigger than the playoff guarantee Hawks. 

That said, man, I don't know of the fit between Murray and Trae. Most of the time, it looks bad. I almost rather see Bogi and Trae which hasn't always worked either. At this point, we need to get an elite 5 which is what Trae needs and just go from there. 

If we don't land KAT or Embiid. I think it's time to consider looking for a young stud for Trae. Maybe a trade of Donovan Mitchell for Trae. Murray and Mitchell will work a lot better than Murray and Trae. 

Cavs would never..

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I was mistaken. It was OO-17 he refused to tap in on. He sees him. Shakes his head no.

 

 

 

Looks like he didn't see OO to me...and I slowed it down to review.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

While Travis did love Trae, they did eventually fall out like Travis did with LP. Travis felt Trae reached his peak and wanted to move him for maximum draft assets, well getting that by Tony was next to impossible. Tony sees Trae as a cash baby as he should. He's doesn't mind trading Trae but he needs to see that this team will get better from it and become a contender. Travis didn't have any potential offers worth a damn as Trae trade value is good but not great. 

That really lead to the beginning of the end for Travis. Travis also didn't agree with the trade cost for Murray and didn't think it was a great fit. Things that's been said before on here. 

Traes peak was his 2nd season IMO..

He'll never duplicate those numbers imo.. Especially shooting %'s..

He's pretty much been a bricklayer and turnover machine ever since..

I hope he makes me eat crow, but I just dont see much more upside with his size...

Edited October 26, 2023 by terrell

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, AtLaS said:

The volatility of our shooting gives us a very high ceiling, and a very low floor.  Because of this, there are no guaranteed W's on our schedule even if a team is load managing it's top 4 players.  

The Hornets were very clearly the inferior team but we just couldn't make a damn shot.  I thought we got good looks for the most part, we only had 12 turnovers.  Should've been a fairly boring 10-15 point win if we just shot average.  

We will have plenty of these games this season.  Beat a top team, then lose to a bad team when we can't shoot.  Hopefully we minimize the amount of games where we shoot 10% from three.  

All of the analytics have changed the game to where a lesser team can win if they get hot from three or if the other team goes cold.  

The Play In tournament also entices lesser teams to hang on to their best players or even make a trade to improve.  The league feels really volatile right now.

 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Traes peak was his 2nd season IMO..

He'll never duplicate those numbers imo.. Especially shooting %'s..

He's pretty much been a bricklayer and turnover machine ever since..

I hope he makes me eat crow, but I just dont see much more upside with his size...

I think he can but some of this is not on Trae. The league just got a lot better at defending 4s and 5s and the requirements to play the 4 or 5 is much different than even when Trae came into the league. 

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

All of the analytics have changed the game to where a lesser team can win if they get hot from three or if the other team goes cold.  

The Play In tournament also entices lesser teams to hang on to their best players or even make a trade to improve.  The league feels really volatile right now.

 

Everyone is talented now. Everyone. 

[thecampster]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Looks like he didn't see OO to me...and I slowed it down to review.

He looks at him, turns his head and shakes it no. I'm not sure what you're seeing???  Second 5 he's looking right at OO, second 6 he turns his head left, OO's hand is outstretch, second 7, he shakes it no.

Edited October 26, 2023 by thecampster

[AtLaS]

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

All of the analytics have changed the game to where a lesser team can win if they get hot from three or if the other team goes cold.  

The Play In tournament also entices lesser teams to hang on to their best players or even make a trade to improve.  The league feels really volatile right now.

 

I like it honestly.  5 straight years, 5 different NBA champions.  Hopefully will be our turn soon.  I hope our best shot wasn't in 21, we really could have won it all if Trae didn't get hurt in game 3.  We were up 5 in the 4th quarter and he already had like 30+.  Would have went up 2-1, and we won game 4 on top of that.  We would've had 3 chances to eliminate them and we could've absolutely beat the Suns.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Capela had some moments and did excellent work on the offensive boards when we needed it most.  But I think it's fair to want to see OO get more time.

Hunter seems to be in the same mode Collins was the past 2 years.  Just waiting to be moved.  There was a moment where it looked like Bey was in his way or maybe was in the wrong spot offensively.  Hunter basically stopped and seemed to spread is arms like 'dude whatchu doin?'  Did I imagine that?  Just struck me as terrible body language in the middle of a nip and tuck game.  He just stopped to complain as we had the ball.  Maybe Bey was in the wrong spot but atleast he played with effort the whole game.

To be clear, I'm not out on Hunter.  I just think we may have broken him with the trade tall the same way we broke Collins. 

OO be getting outplayed by 3rd string centers..He isnt the answer for us longterm in the middle.. Hes too damn samll, just like the backcourt IMO..

[terrell]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Ngl tho, last game had me wanting Bogi at the 2 for his shooting.  DJM be lookin' lost sometimes. 

Yep.. Murray was straight doodoo. Never liked the fit. 

Trae needs shooters around him to be most successful IMO, not dribble dribble mid range like Murray and Dre..