Official Game Thread: Nuggets at Hawks

[lethalweapon3]

“You can’t be out here screwing up the ends of MY games! Who do you think I am, Trae Young?”

 

The Kings. The Suns. The Jazz. The Clippers. The Nets. The Pacers. The Hornets. The Magic. The Grizzlies. The Timberwolves. The Pelicans.

I think that’s The List. The number of current NBA franchises that have yet to host a championship parade and hoist a trophy before its adoring fans after winning an NBA Finals, since the Atlanta Hawks first arrived in Georgia from Missouri in the spring of 1968, remains a sizable list. For now.

Go back as far as 15 years ago, though. The Mavs. The Cavs. The Raps. They were on once stuck on this ignoble list, too. Once representative of half this league, thanks to parity, the Draft Lottery, and “player empowerment” tethered to free agency, The List is dwindling at a pace like that of the Greenland ice sheet.

Drip. Drip.

Counting teams since the 1968-69 season tipped off that even made it to the end-of-season championship series? That drip starts sounding like a dribble, and not the basketball variety.

As of this past spring, the Nuggets are off The List. Denver enters tonight’s game at State Farm Arena (7:30 PM Eastern, Bally Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, Altitude Sports in DEN now that there’s no more petty blackouts) knowing they’ve finally got that dirt off their shoulders. Like the Raptors, the Nuggs went 1-0 with just their first Finals try. Given the gifts this former ABA franchise received at Atlanta’s expense many moons ago, it’s a bit amazing they didn’t Git ‘er Done a whole lot sooner.

“I expect to negotiate extensively with both of them,” assured Hawks and Omni Group owner John Wilcox, when queried by the Atlanta (not yet Journal-) Constitution. “I expect to sign both of them. I have been negotiating contracts for 22 years, and I assume they will give me an opening figure which they don’t expect to sign for. And, we’ll go from there.”

“We wouldn’t have drafted them if we couldn’t afford to sign them,” Wilcox insisted to the A(not yet J)C. “Actually, we can’t afford not to.”

NARRATOR: “Wilcox, in fact, did not sign both of them. The NBA’s middling Hawks, in the end, could not sign either of them. The Nuggets, arguably the ABA’s best team, signed both of them. Unable to afford losing them both, Wilcox would soon leave the Omni Group to run a local courier service.”

“Them,” as you likely figured out, was the third-overall pick in the 1975 NBA Draft, HBCU legend Marvin Webster, and the first-overall pick, NC State phenom David Thompson, the latter part of the haul received by Atlanta in exchange for handing a disgruntled Pete Maravich to the Jazz of New Orleans.

Within a couple weeks of the Hawks making those picks, the Nuggets used a bonus compensatory pick (enjoy Bad News Barnes, you Spirits of St. Louis!) to take Webster off the ABA draft board. Then the Virginia Squires, known for giving away Julius Erving and other young prospects, took the similarly high-flying Thompson first-overall with the intention of dealing him to Denver.

Wilcox couldn’t shed the perception that the hefty fine Atlanta was levied for signing Dr. J in 1972, afoul of NBA rules, made the Hawks unable to pay the blue-chippers their worth, and unable to have the residual money to build an insta-contender around Cotton Fitzsimmons’ 31-51 collective. Webster signed with the Nuggets shortly after the ABA draft. Thompson followed suit a month later, his half-million annual salary blowing away what was once Atlanta and Pistol Pete’s record for a rookie deal.

Hawks fans came away feeling empty-handed after the promise of the 1974 Maravich trade fell through. In a more kinder cut, one of the Jazz draft picks Atlanta received had to be handed over to Milwaukee as part of the punishment for illicitly signing Erving. Milwaukee would use that pick to sign future Nuggets legend Alex English.

Adding Webster, Thompson, and another ABA giveaway, Dan Issel, to Bobby Jones and coach Larry Brown’s 65-game winners of the prior season, the Nuggets reached the ABA Finals in 1976, falling to a very-near-future 76er and Jones teammate, Erving, and the New York Nets in an upset.

The Nuggets could never get off the ABA list, because the ABA folded shortly thereafter. But they and three other teams were allowed to move into the senior league. A way-too-merciful NBA allowed those teams to remain virtually intact, rather than pool the players, many of whom spurned the NBA in the first place, into a draft-style auction.

An eventual beneficiary of this? Your friend and mine, Lenny Wilkens. Seattle acquired Webster and Paul Silas in a 1977 offseason trade. Within a year, Webster nearly helped the Sonics keep Washington’s Wizlets on The List with his heroics in the 1978 Finals. Lenny wouldn’t need Webster, who left for the Knicks in the ensuing offseason, to make 1979 the reason the Thunder aren’t on The List.

But Wilkens still wasn’t done. He already coached up Thompson to victory, and an MVP trophy, in the 1978 All-Star Game. By the time a drug-weathered Thompson’s tenure ended in Denver (after all, Alex English is the new star!) in 1982, Seattle, and Wilkens, were receiving him with open arms.

The 1980s Nuggets became known as coach Doug Moe’s high-scoring squad who couldn’t stop anybody. Nine straight postseasons, with five first-round bounces and one WCF to show for it. Atlanta, meanwhile, seemed so close to figuring things out. If only one of the team’s heavily-scouted and drafted international players would pan out.

Beginning with Marty Blake’s back-draft selections in the 1970s, the Hawks were the most dedicated pioneers of the practice of traveling across the Baltic Sea, scouring for hoop talent that might make a splash in The States. Get your hooks in, the prevailing thought went, before the colleges do. Sure, they already look like professors, but still…

We crawled, with Manuel Raga and Dino Meneghin, and we stumbled, with Arvydas Sabonis and Alexander Volkov, so teams like the Nuggets could one day fly with a doughy 285-pound Latvian, a second-round shot-in-the-dark, molded into a five-time All-Star, two-time MVP and, now, reigning Finals MVP and List-erasing NBA champion.

As downtrodden as the Doug Moe-style Hawks (9-12) seem of late, Nikola Jokic and the Nuggets (14-9) are similarly disinterested in dropping a fourth-consecutive contest. Jamal Murray (probable for tonight, sprained ankle; thrown out after a last-minute meltdown in Friday’s 114-106 home loss vs. HOU) has appeared in just three of Denver’s past five games, after missing 11 straight due to a hammy strain. The resultant dependence on Jokic (career-high 28.4 PPG, NBA-high 13.0 RPG, 9.6 APG) to make, initiate, and create, for Denver’s plodding offense is straining.

The reigning champs depleted their depth in the offseason, turning keys over to back-bench youth, like Peyton Watson, Christian Braun and Zeke Nnaji, and plug-in vet Justin Holiday.

The results have lately been like last week’s in Sacramento for Jokic: 36 points on 13-for-23 shooting, 13 rebounds, 14 assists, Haliburt0n turnovers. And an L. Nikola’s teammates combined to shoot 5-for-21 on treys, no match for the teammates of Domantas Sabonis (don’t remind me about him slipping through our grasp) going 15-for-31. We see you, Kevin Huerter.

The probable play of Murray (career-highs of 41.8 3FG%, 6.7 APG) will aid Denver in stretching the floor more effectively for Jokic’s benefit. Where he doesn’t help is on the defensive end, where the Nuggets get a little too hack-happy. They’ve been fouled 18.9 times per game, leading to just 19.8 FTAs/game (3^rd-lowest in NBA), while opponents’ 19.2 drawn fouls grant them 23.6 foul shots nightly. Murray (90.0 FT%) and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (93.0 FT%; 4 FTAs in past 5 games) could stand to penetrate the paint a bit more effectively, to even things out.

Trae Young’s wallet is $25K lighter after the close of Atlanta’s last home loss, but the good news is he had enough cash left to spring for some Dimetapp. So illness won’t be a reason to miss today’s Denver game, not like his You’re Not The Boss of Me Now tantrum led him to skip out on last season’s visit by the Nuggets.

But without Young, not only did Dejounte show everyone he was the best Murray on the floor (34 points, 8 assists, 1 TO) in their spirited 117-109 win last December 2^nd, but Nate McMillan’s Hawks got a breakout performance from AJ Griffin (24 points on 11-for-16 FGs, 3 steals) to secure the victory.

You all remember AJ, don’t you?

Bagel-for-13 in 27 minutes of play during the Hawks’ road trip in Boston and Cleveland, Griffin has been DNP-CD’d in the four games since. One can only assume Griffin is deep in the lab with the Hawks’ player development team in Brookhaven, on elements beyond just shooting mechanics.

But Atlanta can certainly afford to allow the 16^th pick of 2022’s Draft (9.2 MPG in of ATL’s 11 games) to cut his teeth with a bit more consistency than Denver’s 22^nd pick, the playoff-steeled Braun (20.3 MPG, played in all 23 DEN games) and dogged defender Watson, the last pick of that year’s opening round (15.6 MPG in 21 appearances), drawing effusive praise with each passing game from bloody turnip Michael Malone.

If we ever, as a franchise, are to get off The List, then player development schemes for Atlanta’s draft picks have to pay major, award-winning dividends for the Hawks, and not the IST champion Lakers, or the Kings, or…

Hey, we sure did poach Dikembe Mutombo that one time. Deke and Lenny, what a pair! Oh, and how could anyone forget us stealing away LaPhonso Ellis? Take that, Denver!

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

FINE THIS MAN!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Dre replaces Trae on the Hawks' side of the Boo-Boo Report, listed as Questionable due to a sore quad tendon. i'm not About to Judge who miGht see elevated minutes in his absence, but theRe are a paIr of spiFFy mat(t)hewses avaIlable at coach quiN's disposal. 

Jamal remains Probable after spraining his ankle kicking at his referee wooden dummy. All 3 two-way Nuggets are on G-League duty with Grand Rapids.

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Denver's loss to the Rockets last weekend was their first of the season at Ball Arena. They're 5-8 away from home, 6-8 overall after starting out 8-1.

Despite leading the NBA West at 53-29 last season, the Nuggets lost four straight in mid-March, and lost three in a row twice. The first 3-game losing streak kicked off last December with the loss at State Farm Arena.

Per GameNotes, Trae's AAU patna MPJ is two triples away from 500, which will make him the 10th Nugget tp reach 500 threes. His current backcourt patna Dejounte sits two threes away from 400.

Bogi's streak of 2+ 3FGs is at an NBA season-high 16 games and, hopefully, counting. He'd have a way to go to catch Kahl, I imagine, but Bogi's 17-straight in 2021 ranks second in franchise history.  

The Hawks will try to make it four seasons in a row where they've beaten a defending champ at least once at The Farm.

~lw3

[macdaddy]

14 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

The Hawks will try to make it four seasons in a row where they've beaten a defending champ at least once at The Farm.

This game feels like both a "can't win" and "must win".  That's not good. 

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

This game feels like both a "can't win" and "must win".  That's not good. 

I had it marked as a L a week ago so if we pull off a miracle I'm considering that gravy.  

[Dnice]

I'd hope they'll use some sort of OO and Bruno for size.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Arvydas Sabonis

I would have loved to see him in a Hawks uni. And his son lethal, you and I, one pick ahead ugh .

 

1 hour ago, lethalweapon3 said:

AJ Griffin (24 points on 11-for-16 FGs, 3 steals) to secure the victory.

You all remember AJ, don’t you?

Give the man some minutes Q!

 

1 hour ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Braun

Dude got some Osman in him
 

Thanks as always lw3! 

Go Hawks!!!

Vegas got Nuggs -2.5

2K did well..

 

[Gray Mule]

57 minutes ago, Dnice said:

I'd hope they'll use some sort of OO and Bruno for size.

Bruno belongs to the same club as AJ Griffin - - - Did not play, coach's decision.

Denver is good.  Hawks have been terrible, therefore Atlanta should prevail in this one!

GO ATL HAWKS!!

[JayBirdHawk]

 

....and this little 'nugget'

Jokic doesn’t score a ton on Capela

Nikola’s career high against Clint Capela is 27 points, but since Clint came to Atlanta Jokic has never topped 24 points against him. Early in his career Joker struggled a lot with the athletic big but eventually figured him out like he does everyone. Still, Capela, and the Hawks defense in general, often forces Jokic to be more of a facilitator than a scorer. Given his recent struggles shooting the ball it will be interesting tonight to see if Atlanta switches it up and makes Joker beat them by putting the ball in the basket.

[JustSomeGuy]

Seth Lundy recalled. Any chance we see him take minutes from the Mat/tthewe?

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Seth Lundy recalled. Any chance we see him take minutes from the Mat/tthewe?

Or Maybe Hunter is out?

 

 

[lethalweapon3]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Or Maybe Hunter is out?

 

 

Indeed, De'Andre has been downgraded in the 5:30 Report to Out.

~lw3

[HawksNWaffles]

You thought it was over

 

 

[Spud2nique]

44 minutes ago, HawksNWaffles said:

You thought it was over

Not I captain  

oooohhhh the middle one is dope! I dig.

Him and I both got bling around our necks.. well my ornament  

Edited December 11, 2023 by Spud2nique

[JayBirdHawk]

I guess we'll see more of this with both Hunt and JJ out?

Bogi starts at SF?

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bogi starts at SF?

NO!!

 

 

 

[Dnice]

They're going with Garry Bird

[MaceCase]

Alright now.... I need a win.

[MaceCase]

Good for the goose