Official Game Thread: Thunder "at" Hawks

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Yeah well everybody deserves blame in these collapses, including Kwin.

I hate Eddie Johnson but he said something that stuck with me w.r.t. coaching late in games.  Basically said his coaches always told him if they build a big lead, it's my (the coach's) job to help them hold onto it.

The reasoning was that the coach is supposed to be the one to calm the emotions and reset things.  Players can get caught up in the momentum.  The coach is supposed to halt the slide, so to speak.

I'm not saying it's on Snyder, but it seems like he should be able to do something to help stop this same trend from happening.  Heyul, you got enough tape on it to study it all.  If this was iRobot, we would be calling for his head. 

It was very eye opening and sad to know that in our last 9 games we have built a double digit lead in the first half. 

Think about that... we're good enough (even without JJ) to build up a double digit lead on everybody who we have played... Home or Away... but we're bad enough to not be able to hold on to it.    That's coaching. 

Like I said a when we first started sliding in December...  When JJ comes back, we will be a better team, hard to beat, and will probably go on a streak.  This is only 2 games in, but even with tougher opponents coming in, I dont see any team being able to stop us from scoring.  It's up to us to keep going.  IF we're up 20.. shoot for being up 40 instead of taking our foot off the gas and shooting goofy shots. 

 

 

[Diesel]

UNSUNG HERO...

Spoiler

GIVE HIM HIS DUE!!

[Diesel]

The Look that Quin Synder gave Trae after he missed the logo three.

Spoiler

Then he put Trae on the bench.   Hell, it may have been his time to come out... but pulling him after the boneheaded shot was great coaching. 

 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It was very eye opening and sad to know that in our last 9 games we have built a double digit lead in the first half. 

Think about that... we're good enough (even without JJ) to build up a double digit lead on everybody who we have played... Home or Away... but we're bad enough to not be able to hold on to it.    That's coaching. 

Like I said a when we first started sliding in December...  When JJ comes back, we will be a better team, hard to beat, and will probably go on a streak.  This is only 2 games in, but even with tougher opponents coming in, I dont see any team being able to stop us from scoring.  It's up to us to keep going.  IF we're up 20.. shoot for being up 40 instead of taking our foot off the gas and shooting goofy shots. 

 

 

I find myself in all those games saying, "the lead should be bigger".  And we inevitably give it all back because we get content with building a lead.  It's like we get ahead and puff our little chests out as if we've accomplished something.  In this era, not many leads are safe.  We need to learn this and play accordingly.

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

UNSUNG HERO...

  Hide contents

GIVE HIM HIS DUE!!

Undeniable.  He didn't "stop" SGA but he tried.  Many times succeeded.  That's far more than anyone else did.  And it mattered. 

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

The Look that Quin Synder gave Trae after he missed the logo three.

  Hide contents

Then he put Trae on the bench.   Hell, it may have been his time to come out... but pulling him after the boneheaded shot was great coaching. 

 

Nah, that was just his normal time to come out.  I'd say that was more of a welcome coincidence than anything.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

In this era, not many leads are safe.  We need to learn this and play accordingly.

Our biggest problem.. really.. is learning to play with a lead.    Honestly, it's a psychology to it.  I heard somebody talking about Michael Jordan and his in game philosophy.   What they said (and it may have been him, I don't remember) is that he always ignored the scoreboard and played the game as if it were 0-0.   For us it starts with Trae.   Trae is keenly aware of the scoreboard at all time.. I know this because I pay attention to his clock management.   Trae still has some of that HS shit in him where he can goof around and do show off stuff  when you have a lead.  I would have wished that he could spend a summer with Kobe instead of Steph.   What he would have learned from Kobe is how to be a killer.  Instead, he spent the summer with the Killer in this game... the baby faced assassin who is not going to teach you how to be a killer.  He will teach you how to be elite and disrespectful at the same time.  There is nobody of Kobe's ilk around the game these days.  Maybe Jimmy Butler.   However,  Trae is a killer, but he doesn't have the mean streak yet.   He's still smiling and Lebroning everybody at the end of games.   We've seen it... a pissed off Trae plays better than a loose Trae.  Being connected to DJ is good.   DJ has the potential to be that type of bad boy but he's too much heart.  When people talk about us being sawft... it's because we don't have those guys on the team that just looks to destroy whoever is playing against them.   I'm not going to say we don't have that... I'm saying it hasn't been activated yet. 

 

 

[TheTruth]

Still trying to get over that we were up 135-120…15 points…with just 3:21 left in the game, yet it came down to the last shot.

Boy do we need some defenders in the worst way.

[AHF]

I'm just glad we did not give this one up ultimately.  It would have been brutal to basically lead the entire game and then give it away in the last few minutes - especially in a game where several of our players performed very well against one of the top teams in the league YTD.

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, TheTruth said:

Still trying to get over that we were up 135-120…15 points…with just 3:21 left in the game, yet it came down to the last shot.

Boy do we need some defenders in the worst way.

We do for sure but we also need some clutch genes.  Here's our offense from that point

 

MISS Bey 3PT Jump Shot

MISS Murray Tip Layup Shot

Johnson 10' Floating Jump Shot (28 PTS) (Young 11 AST)

Johnson Bad Pass Turnover (P1.T12)

MISS Murray 25' 3PT Jump Shot

HAWKS Turnover: Shot Clock (T#13)

MISS Murray 3' Driving Floating Jump Shot

MISS Bogdanovic 26' 3PT Jump Shot

 

[kg01]

That Holmgren dude really reminded me of a pale KD at times, I must admit.  OKC needs some beef tho. There were too many times Capela, OO, JJ, even Bey just walked right through them for a rebound.

[Atlantaholic]

Isn't a lot of this stuff the things we were raking Nate over the coals for? Quinn gets a pass??

[TheTruth]

27 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Isn't a lot of this stuff the things we were raking Nate over the coals for? Quinn gets a pass??

While I strongly feel that we are a better club with Quin than Nate, I definitely don't give Quin a pass. There are too many things he and this team do (or don't do) that are giving me pause. 

That said, I definitely don't see him getting a free pass around here. Unlike Nate, Quin hasn't been with the team a full year yet. But, he needs to do a better job just as much as the players and GM do.

Edited January 4 by TheTruth

[theheroatl]

These players are worth keeping:

Trae, JJ, DJM, Bogi

These players need to be flipped to better defensive players:

AJ, OO, Capela, Bey, Hunter.. package them up and find better defensive blue bloods to surround the core..

Like JJJ, Caruso, Marcus Smart

 

Im giving Quin a pass until we get better defensive players.

Edited January 4 by theheroatl

[shakes]

So I watched the OKC broadcast rather than the ATl broadcast.   they did a whole segment talking about how great Dominique was.  Michael Cage had a lot to say on that front.

 

Most interesting to me was how they covered the Trae Young/Lindy Waters connection.    They mentioned how they were high school teammates and how they were the "dynamic duo".  But no mention at all about how much they dislike each other.  No mention of how they don't even acknowledge each other on the court.

Years ago I was watching OU vs OSU with Trae vs Waters with Fran Franchilla who knows literally everyone connected with the game of basketball world wide on the mic.   Fran said something that to this day has stuck with me and my wife.  He said they were high school teammates, but they are not close.    It was such an odd comment at the time,. but it made perfect sense when you read between the lines.  It was clear that they didn't like each other.

 

Since then I've seen them on the same court several times and they never say hi to each other.  Very odd for former HS teammates.

My theory has always been that Waters resented that the kid a year younger than him in school was suprassing him and over shadowing his own senior year.  I always chalked it up to Waters jealousy of Trae.

 

Would love for someone to ask Trae or Lindy and really get to the bottom of it.  

 

It became a regular "meme" in my house whenever we would see Waters on TV one of us would comment and say "...and he's not close friends with Trae"  To this day we still say that or joke about whenever announcers talk about players who are childhood or long time friends.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Isn't a lot of this stuff the things we were raking Nate over the coals for? Quinn gets a pass??

Yup.

Nope.

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

So I watched the OKC broadcast rather than the ATl broadcast.   they did a whole segment talking about how great Dominique was.  Michael Cage had a lot to say on that front.

 

Most interesting to me was how they covered the Trae Young/Lindy Waters connection.    They mentioned how they were high school teammates and how they were the "dynamic duo".  But no mention at all about how much they dislike each other.  No mention of how they don't even acknowledge each other on the court.

Years ago I was watching OU vs OSU with Trae vs Waters with Fran Franchilla who knows literally everyone connected with the game of basketball world wide on the mic.   Fran said something that to this day has stuck with me and my wife.  He said they were high school teammates, but they are not close.    It was such an odd comment at the time,. but it made perfect sense when you read between the lines.  It was clear that they didn't like each other.

 

Since then I've seen them on the same court several times and they never say hi to each other.  Very odd for former HS teammates.

My theory has always been that Waters resented that the kid a year younger than him in school was suprassing him and over shadowing his own senior year.  I always chalked it up to Waters jealousy of Trae.

 

Would love for someone to ask Trae or Lindy and really get to the bottom of it.  

 

It became a regular "meme" in my house whenever we would see Waters on TV one of us would comment and say "...and he's not close friends with Trae"  To this day we still say that or joke about whenever announcers talk about players who are childhood or long time friends.

Be honest.  This story is about you and me and you know it.  No need to be jealous, bro. 

On a serious note, the Rathbun brought up that they knew each other and called it a "rivalry".  Their interactions definitely seemed cold.  Ah well, F that guy.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Shots fired at Murray?  Heh 

He's my guy.....so I'm allowed 

[Atlantaholic]

32 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

These players are worth keeping:

Trae, JJ, DJM, Bogi

These players need to be flipped to better defensive players:

AJ, OO, Capela, Bey, Hunter.. package them up and find better defensive blue bloods to surround the core..

Like JJJ, Caruso, Marcus Smart

 

Im giving Quin a pass until we get better defensive players.

I think you need to move one of DJ or Trae.... unless you know 5th seed is the ambition. For me it's obvious which of the two you move. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Isn't a lot of this stuff the things we were raking Nate over the coals for? Quinn gets a pass??

I think you've been seeing increasing criticism of Snyder as the year has progressed in game day threads, in threads focused on his decisions / strategies, and in other places as well.  The honeymoon period is mostly over.  

That said, offensively we are drastically better off than we were under Nate and just a glance at a shot location chart backs that up.  Big and important changes to the better.  But there have been issues with the rotation, with fourth quarters, and other areas that are ripe for conversation and I don't think Quin is getting a free pass on those topics.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you've been seeing increasing criticism of Snyder as the year has progressed in game day threads, in threads focused on his decisions / strategies, and in other places as well.  The honeymoon period is mostly over.  

That said, offensively we are drastically better off than we were under Nate and just a glance at a shot location chart backs that up.  Big and important changes to the better.  But there have been issues with the rotation, with fourth quarters, and other areas that are ripe for conversation and I don't think Quin is getting a free pass on those topics.

In the end you have to have the right personnel no matter how good of a coach you are.  

[shakes]

eventually we're gonna run out of coaches to blame.

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

In the end you have to have the right personnel no matter how good of a coach you are.  

 

22 minutes ago, shakes said:

eventually we're gonna run out of coaches to blame.

You can only work with the tools you have but nobody is perfect so there are still going to be issues that are fair critiques for any player or coach.  To that end, I think north's recent complaints that while JJ was out Quin unreasonably resisted playing big opting instead to play Mat(t)hews was a mistake are well founded.  

But I think it would be a mistake to "blame" Quin as if we would be champions if he did everything right.  That wasn't the case with Nate and isn't the case now.  Both coaches had flawed rosters that didn't include a championship under any scenario.  But critiquing the coach for mistakes is totally fair.  For Nate, two low hanging fruit examples are his refusal to play JJ and his insistence on emphasizing long 2pt jumpers.