Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pacers

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This isn't a new team.  The Hawks only have 1 new player on the team starting.  I am so tired of that excuse.  Some of the players on the Bench are new as well but you don't see them throwing the ball away like the starters. We are dead last in turnovers in the league primarily because our veteran starters can't take care of the ball.  there are plenty of teams that changed their stating line ups...Boston, Lakers, and Chicago come to mind and they are having 20+ turnover games on a nightly basis like the Hawks are lately.

The reality is:

1.  Dennis is new to being a starting PG. 

2.  The changeover from Sawft Horford to Ball gobbling Howard is a big transition.   We haven't even learned how to feed Howard yet.

3.  More THJR/Thabo... 

4.  We have to learn to work the Baze, Korver, THJr, Thabo, Prince, Bembry rotation. 

5.  More Moose.. No Scott.

This is basically a new team when you consider time on the floor.  Have some of them worn Hawks unis... yes.  but being on the floor is different than sitting on the side.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

The reality is:

1.  Dennis is new to being a starting PG. 

2.  The changeover from Sawft Horford to Ball gobbling Howard is a big transition.   We haven't even learned how to feed Howard yet.

3.  More THJR/Thabo... 

4.  We have to learn to work the Baze, Korver, THJr, Thabo, Prince, Bembry rotation. 

5.  More Moose.. No Scott.

This is basically a new team when you consider time on the floor.  Have some of them worn Hawks unis... yes.  but being on the floor is different than sitting on the side.

Then why do only certain players turn the ball over repeatedly?  Tim Hardaway plays with Howard on the court but he doesn't turn the ball over.  What about Delaney...He plays with Howard too and is averaging fewer than 2 turnovers a game.  If fact,all of the starters average close to 2 turnover per game or more while the back ups are average closer to half the number of turnovers as the starters.  Dennis is terrible at taking care of the ball individually but that starting combination is bad for each other and its not out of the question to at least try a different line instead of hope things will improve because they appear to be worsening.

[Jody23]

Imo, Korver needs to come off the bench.  Bazemore is a shooting guard, not a small forward.  It makes next to zero sense to invest a large amount of money in Bazemore, but continue to play him at a position he's not well suited for on either end of the floor.  As opposed to last year, the Hawks now have two real small forwards in Thabo and Taurean and both are better fits at that spot than anyone else on the roster.

[DS17Fanboy]

The issue adressed regarding Korver compounds when you include Howard. These are two very specialist type of players that can only be fed in very limited ways. I said it before, but yesterday you could really see it clearly when Darvin Hamm whas having a big argument with Howard as Dennis shot the Tech: the starters are trying really hard and often against the odds, to try to string together plays that take full advantage of these specialist type games and come out sharpened at the end of year. I have to compliment them on that, but I see some dark clouds rising in the Dennis/Howards relationship. Hamm whas on Howards back after not rolling to the basket and Dennis taking a  frustrated bad shot early in the clock after that failed PnR.

And I said it before: Dennis is basically regressing right now and thats mainly because he has a knack for acting like a kid after failure. Its tough to be in his seat on this project right now, but he has to not give away such possessions because it signals unproffesional behavior and you dont want that as a young kid who's given team leadership. Team-mates hate that and these things will only haunt him, also in his own head.

[benhillboy]

I didn't see the game but obviously thrilled with Dwight's performance.

I cannot get on board with the "give them time to gel" argument as an excuse/reason for the awful ball protection.  Bud is only a couple years removed from COTY and these players are making more money than ever.  Starter or not, Dennis is a vet now.  People from all sorts of vantage points have noticed that the offense runs much smoother under Delaney.  That's unacceptable.

As for Kyle and Baze, all we can hope for is continuing to win despite their poor production coupled with Prince busting his ass to eat their minutes.  It's just too many holes when you combine a questionable decision making PG with a non-dribbling 2 and undersized 3.  They owe a whole lot to Paul, Dwight, and the benchmob so far.  Dennis and Baze got a few dollars to spare I'm sure.

Edited November 24, 2016 by benhillboy

[DS17Fanboy]

vor 8 Minuten, benhillboy sagte:

I didn't see the game but obviously thrilled with Dwight's performance.

I cannot get on board with the "give them time to gel" argument as an excuse/reason for the awful ball protection.  Bud is only a couple years removed from COTY and these players are making more money than ever.  Starter or not, Dennis is a vet now.  People from all sorts of vantage points have noticed that the offense runs much smoother under Delaney.  That's unacceptable.

OK, Im bothering with this nonsense. Firstly, I will only say this: you are talking apples and oranges in various ways. Then, everyone knew from the get-go that "it would take time to gel". Thats not some thing that is debatble, even if you believe in it or not.

And here we are 10-5. And if you had seen the game you'd know Dennis also shut Teague/PnP Turner down. Dennis has a completely different role and is under different coaching demands than Delaney.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 - 5 record.  

.667 winning percentage.

Projected record at this pace . . .  53 - 29

Just so you guys know.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

10 - 5 record.  

.667 winning percentage.

Projected record at this pace . . .  53 - 29

Just so you guys know.

You're right...playing the likes of Golden State, San Antonio, and the Clippers is the same as playing Philadelphia twice and the Wizards twice.  So yea, it's simple math..Not!

[Thomas]

Sometimes its just best to find a team that you like. I'll stick with the Birds.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

You're right...playing the like of Golden State, San Antonio, and the Clippers is the same as playing Philadelphia twice and the Wizards twice.  So yea, it's simple math..Not!

To validate your point, the Hawks are 29th in Strength of Schedule at this point in the season.

Whose last?  These guys

[Trout7]

22 hours ago, BigDog90 said:

I'm amazed to see Prince play so much. He deserves it.

May need to have Thabo backup Korver and have Baze backup Prince. 

Baze is a natural at backup. LOL.

[Trout7]

23 hours ago, StephenHawking said:

can you play any worse than dennis this first half?

Dennis can always come up with a new and better way of sucking. LOL.

[Plainview1981]

I'm not sure that Dennis is a starting PG. 5.5 APG and 3.1 TPG just isn't that good... I think maybe he is better off as a 22-25 MPG 6th man.

I understand there is some adjustment going on. It's not just the fact that Dennis is starting and playing more minutes, but this team is different. Having Millsap and Howard clogging up the paint doesn't totally mesh with the style that Dennis plays with.  Dennis really had to shoot better... I know he got off to the hot start, but the last several games he has been as cold as he was hot earlier this year.

I'm just not sure has improved enough. I don't think he improved all that much last year either. I mean, he isn't that much better of a player than he was 2 years ago. I know that its only 15 games into the season, but I'm really alarmed by his lack of improvement.

[Plainview1981]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

10 - 5 record.  

.667 winning percentage.

Projected record at this pace . . .  53 - 29

Just so you guys know.

The Hawks have had a really weak schedule....

The good news is that nobody nobody has played their best on a consistent basis as of it. However, the roster now has more inconsistent players than what it used to have.

[Plainview1981]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

To validate your point, the Hawks are 29th in Strength of Schedule at this point in the season.

Whose last?  These guys

They finished with the best record ever last year and have been in the finals the last two years. They gained talent while the Hawks lost talent in the off season. So what you have here is a false equivalence. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

They finished with the best record ever last year and have been in the finals the last two years. They gained talent while the Hawks lost talent in the off season. So what you have here is a false equivalence. 

I agree . . . somewhat.

The most encouraging sign about the Hawks, despite the weak schedule, is that they've already beaten 3 of the top 10 teams in the league ( Cleveland, Chicago, and Houston ), and have a +5.7 point differential ( 4th in the league ).  Outside of the LA Lakers and New Orleans debacles, they've been playing like a top 5 defense, while just providing enough offense to win games comfortably going down the stretch.

My thing is that even with the schedule, very few of you ever dreamed that the Hawks would be 10 - 5 at this point.  I thought it was definitely possible, with me predicting that they'd win 57 games this season.  This road trip will go a long way in determining if a 55+ win season is possible.  I'm looking for them to go 4 - 1 on this trip, despite the struggles of Baze and Dennis.   

I really like what this team is doing on defense, and how the bench has really stepped up their level of play.  Dwight got an EASY 23 and 20 last night, despite Korver being out and Dennis and Baze playing like garbage.  That's scary for the rest of the league.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Too Easy

And check out the Millsap to Howard lob.  Shades of Josh Smith to Horford.  With Dennis struggling as a playmaker at times, Millsap is showing that he can be that guy at times.  His 3.8 assists are 2nd on the team, and the highest level of his career. 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by TheNorthCydeRises

[benhillboy]

19 hours ago, DS17Fanboy said:

OK, Im bothering with this nonsense. Firstly, I will only say this: you are talking apples and oranges in various ways. Then, everyone knew from the get-go that "it would take time to gel". Thats not some thing that is debatble, even if you believe in it or not.

And here we are 10-5. And if you had seen the game you'd know Dennis also shut Teague/PnP Turner down. Dennis has a completely different role and is under different coaching demands than Delaney.

Bruh you need a lot more years in to deem my posts nonsense.  You'll come up with any excuse for Dennis' questionable play, we get it.  I'm guessing his role is to have the worst advanced numbers on the team:

 

How do you spin those with your all-seeing analyst eye?

Edited November 25, 2016 by benhillboy

[cam1218]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Bruh you need a lot more years in to deem my posts nonsense.  You'll come up with any excuse for Dennis' questionable play, we get it.  I'm guessing his role is to have the worst advanced numbers on the team:

 

How do you spin those with your all-seeing analyst eye?

I was also criticized for not seeing the game through the eyes of a Dennis fan. Everyone here wants him to play well and he has at times. Dennis is learning a new role and is forcing things and Bud benched him because of it. I think all of us know he will get better, but overall he hasn't been that good with running our offense. 

[Plainview1981]

22 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I agree . . . somewhat.

The most encouraging sign about the Hawks, despite the weak schedule, is that they've already beaten 3 of the top 10 teams in the league ( Cleveland, Chicago, and Houston ), and have a +5.7 point differential ( 4th in the league ).  Outside of the LA Lakers and New Orleans debacles, they've been playing like a top 5 defense, while just providing enough offense to win games comfortably going down the stretch.

My thing is that even with the schedule, very few of you ever dreamed that the Hawks would be 10 - 5 at this point.  I thought it was definitely possible, with me predicting that they'd win 57 games this season.  This road trip will go a long way in determining if a 55+ win season is possible.  I'm looking for them to go 4 - 1 on this trip, despite the struggles of Baze and Dennis.   

I really like what this team is doing on defense, and how the bench has really stepped up their level of play.  Dwight got an EASY 23 and 20 last night, despite Korver being out and Dennis and Baze playing like garbage.  That's scary for the rest of the league.

Dwight doesn't provide scoring punch every night. In fact, Millsap is the only one that contributes every night on the offensive end. The Hawks have struggled to score since the Miami game a couple of weeks ago. It appears that other teams have figured the Hawks out... I don't think the team wins 53 games with Korver and Baze starting. They're just not skilled enough at this point. Both are struggling once again tonight.

The Hawks will struggle in the playoffs if they do not make changes to the current roster,

Edited November 26, 2016 by Hotlanta1981