The Tank Thread

[KB21]

25 minutes ago, kurupt said:

	2016		2015		2014		2013
1	Ben Simmons	1	Karl-Anthony Towns	1	Andrew Wiggins	1	Anthony Bennett
2	Brandon Ingram	2	D'Angelo Russell	2	Jabari Parker	2	Victor Oladipo
3	Jaylen Brown	3	Jahlil Okafor	3	Joel Embiid	3	Otto Porter Jr.
4	Dragan Bender	4	Kristaps Porzingis	4	Aaron Gordon	4	Cody Zeller
	2012		2011		2010		2009
1	Anthony Davis	1	Kyrie Irving	1	John Wall	1	Blake Griffin
2	Michael Kidd-Gilchrist	2	Derrick Williams	2	Evan Turner	2	Hasheem Thabeet
3	Bradley Beal	3	Enes Kanter	3	Derrick Favors	3	James Harden
4	Dion Waiters	4	Tristan Thompson	4	Wesley Johnson	4	Tyreke Evans
	2008		2007		2006		2005
1	Derrick Rose	1	Greg Oden	1	Andrea Bargnani	1	Andrew Bogut
2	Michael Beasley	2	Kevin Durant	2	LaMarcus Aldridge	2	Marvin Williams
3	O.J. Mayo	3	Al Horford	3	Adam Morrison	3	Deron Williams
4	Russell Westbrook	4	Mike Conley	4	Tyrus Thomas	4	Chris Paul
	2004		2003		2002		2001
1	Dwight Howard	1	LeBron James	1	Yao Ming	1	Kwame Brown
2	Emeka Okafor	2	Darko Milicic	2	Jay Williams	2	Tyson Chandler
3	Ben Gordon	3	Carmelo Anthony	3	Mike Dunleavy	3	Pau Gasol
4	Shaun Livingston	4	Chris Bosh	4	Drew Gooden	4	Eddy Curry
	2000
1	Kenyon Martin
2	Stromile Swift
3	Darius Miles
4	Marcus Fizer

Woof!  That's a lot more failure than success with picking in the top 4 of the draft.  Yikes.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Question: Who in this draft class can become an All-Star in 3 years, AND a Hall of Famer when it's all said and done?

Edited November 5, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Question: Who in this draft class can become an All-Star in 3 years, AND a Hall of Famer when it's all said and done?

I think Luka Doncic is the only one that can do that.  

[marco102]

21 hours ago, DBac said:

If Dennis is still on the team by the draft, then I expect Michael Porter to be the pick. Throw him at the 4 over Ersan. 

 

And tbh if Ressler has say then I imagine he'll be pushing for Porter to put butts and seats as well, no matter if Doncic would be the better long-term investment in that regard.

This isn't true at all.  Dennis and Doncic actually would go well together because we are missing that 2nd ball handler in the starting line up. 

To answer the question what position Luca would play.  He'd play the 2 and 3 since those positions are interchangeable in Buds' system.

[DBac]

38 minutes ago, marco102 said:

This isn't true at all.  Dennis and Doncic actually would go well together because we are missing that 2nd ball handler in the starting line up. 

To answer the question what position Luca would play.  He'd play the 2 and 3 since those positions are interchangeable in Buds' system.

I think Doncic is best served with a  PG that's more of a spacer, preferably a defender too. Which allows him to have the primary ballhandling responsibilities. Cleveland did it with Lebron + Kyrie, Houston with Harden and PBev, Hayward and Hill in Utah, Brogdon and Giannis in Milwaukee, Bayless and Simmons in Philly, etc. 

If we build with Dennis, I'd look towards those nuggets teams with Lawson, Iguodala, Galinari/Chandler, Faried, etc. as more of a template for the Hawks.

[KB21]

I think Doncic and Schröder could compliment each other well, as both can play off the ball if needed.  Dennis needs a secondary ball handler in the line up with him to allow him to play off the ball some, and also to take some of the offensive responsibility off his shoulders so he can put more effort into his on the ball and off the ball defense.

When not in a ball handling situation, Doncic would excel as a catch and shoot off the ball threat.  

[gurpilo]

Doncic has played great next to a ball dominant PG as Dragic, probably is the safer pick. The other safe pick for me is Dayton, I would be inmensely happy with any of these 2. 

Porter could become Marvin Williams and Bagley and Bamba are picks with higher risk

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Doncic has played great next to a ball dominant PG as Dragic, probably is the safer pick. The other safe pick for me is Dayton, I would be inmensely happy with any of these 2. 

Porter could become Marvin Williams and Bagley and Bamba are picks with higher risk

Do you mean Ayton?  He's not a safe pick by any stretch, IMO.  I question whether he really wants to play.

[DBac]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Do you mean Ayton?  He's not a safe pick by any stretch, IMO.  I question whether he really wants to play.

Yeah my biggest fear about Ayton is that he only plays basketball because he's tall but doesn't love the game. Drummond was similar in that regard, once he got his money he wanted to become a rapper. Hard to psychoanalyze from the couch but that's what Ayton's warts sound like. Hopefully that's unfounded and he really does like basketball because he's extremely gifted.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, DBac said:

Yeah my biggest fear about Ayton is that he only plays basketball because he's tall but doesn't love the game. Drummond was similar in that regard, once he got his money he wanted to become a rapper. Hard to psychoanalyze from the couch but that's what Ayton's warts sound like. Hopefully that's unfounded and he really does like basketball because he's extremely gifted.

It's the aloofness he displays on defense and when he's not involved in the offensive possession that is maddening.

[gurpilo]

hace 15 minutos, KB21 dijo:

Do you mean Ayton?  He's not a safe pick by any stretch, IMO.  I question whether he really wants to play.

Yeah sorry Ayton hahahahaha, he has all the tools to be a dominant Center for years, we have not had that kind of center for long long time. I see flaws on all the rest players

[Lurker]

I know I said I wouldn't be back until later today but if you want a tools guy, Ayton should be #1, as at least he has a base set of skill to go off of. 

I'm selling on Bagley. He looks massively overrated to me. I need to see more with Porter Jr. I was not a fan of early reports on him. While it's better than it has been if he doesn't absolutely DESTROY SEC competition, he too, is overrated. As the sec is still one of the weaker conferences basketball wise.

For tools, Ayton is #1, for incredible skill, Doncic is #1.

[Lurker]

Really, if you want to put the blame on one person for the tank, blame Tony Ressler. As he was the guy that wanted the flash in Dwight Howard. Once Horford was gone, any chance the Hawks had at continuing those ways of being an unselfish very veteran team that plays hard and is a mid level playoff team was gone, sorry.

Last year's team got very lucky. Last year shouldn't have been a playoff team, period. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I know I said I wouldn't be back until later today but if you want a tools guy, Ayton should be #1, as at least he has a base set of skill to go off of. 

I'm selling on Bagley. He looks massively overrated to me. I need to see more with Porter Jr. I was not a fan of early reports on him. While it's better than it has been if he doesn't absolutely DESTROY SEC competition, he too, is overrated. As the sec is still one of the weaker conferences basketball wise.

For tools, Ayton is #1, for incredible skill, Doncic is #1.

Bamba has the best combination of size, length, IQ. With him, it's where are his skills and where is his commitment to Basketball. He's like Hawks era player with Al. Like Al loves his life, he's not living in the gym like Tim is or like Muscala is. I want someone with those tools to live in the gym like Giannis, Tim or Moose does. 

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Really, if you want to put the blame on one person for the tank, blame Tony Ressler. As he was the guy that wanted the flash in Dwight Howard. Once Horford was gone, any chance the Hawks had at continuing those ways of being an unselfish very veteran team that plays hard and is a mid level playoff team was gone, sorry.

Last year's team got very lucky. Last year shouldn't have been a playoff team, period. 

Once you lose a player the caliber of Horford, it's pretty much over at that point regardless. Horford wasn't paid 132 million because he was handsome. 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Question: Who in this draft class can become an All-Star in 3 years, AND a Hall of Famer when it's all said and done?

Great question. There are like 5 guys who could become special in this class. Since college hasn't started yet and Doncic season is still fresh, I can't say anyone is looking like a future HOF. (Porter Jr., Doncic, Ayton, Bamba and Bagley III).

 

That said, all of them could be All-Stars within 3 years. But right now, all have their own strengths and weaknesses and we need to see improvement from all of them at this time until the end of the season.  

Anyone saying otherwise at this point really don't know what they are talking about. 

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, kurupt said:

And it is amazing that you say that Doncic is not (at least) on Balls level. He does the exact same things since he was 16 years-old against much better competition - and he can shoot and score at an elite level. He literally is the Point Guard of Real Madrid this season, one of the best teams outside of the NBA that could probably beat the bottom third of the NBA, and he is dominating every aspect of the game. He is already there.

And here are the Top4 picks of the NBA draft ranging back to 2000. Think about how many of these players are not even "Gordon Hayward" or a comparable player - and see how many of them were "super athlete/big that moves well that might develop into a real basketball-player" kind-of picks:

 

I am not addressing most of this for time reasons but here is what I will address. 

I didn't say he's not on Ball's level overall, I said he's not a PG which Ball is. He hasn't shown that he can do what PG's can do. He's more of a Point forward like Pippen in the way he can play PG but nothing like Lonzo who is a pure PG. 

You are going about after the fact. I am saying, with the exception of weak drafts, there is no one convincing me that Hayward out of Butler is a top 3 pick. It's not happening. From what I've seen in the NBA, I still don't see it either unless it's a weaker draft. 

 

[KB21]

Great article from earlier this year on what to expect when you become a lottery team.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidberri/2017/10/16/before-the-season-even-starts-there-is-so-little-hope-for-nba-lottery-teams/#5d7132aa45bf

Quote

Let’s keep going. If we look at three years later, 16.8% reach 50 wins. Four years later, that percentage rises to 20.5%. And five years later, 23.1% reach 50 wins. In other words, of the teams that fail to win 30 games in a given season, 76.9% are not winning 50 or more games five years later.

 

 

[JTB]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

Great article from earlier this year on what to expect when you become a lottery team.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidberri/2017/10/16/before-the-season-even-starts-there-is-so-little-hope-for-nba-lottery-teams/#5d7132aa45bf

 

 

Yeah well as a fan that’s in between tanking and staying put I’m over it. While I agree with the article and it’s facts it doesn’t matter at this point the tanking process is already in progress.

but what scares me is what’s going on in the east...Celtics are clearly the best young east team we’ve seen in years and those guys are for real and will be around for a long while. Then the bucks go out and add Bledsoe to their young talented team making their roster better and I believe we aren’t done seeing other east teams make moves to get a lot better.

so you know this 2-3 year plan schlenk has stated sounds like a fairy tale. Sure the east is weak right now but what the east will look like in 2-3 years we may find ourselves overmatched....all I can say is I’m not too worried about who we draft , at the end of the day Schlenks plan better work. And perhaps I’m full of it but we need to return to the playoffs next season if we can...like I’ve stated tanking for one year ok...two straight seasons? No sir...If we can’t get to the playoffs and we suck the 2nd year anyways fine just don’t purposely tank like we are now.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

Yeah well as a fan that’s in between tanking and staying put I’m over it. While I agree with the article and it’s facts it doesn’t matter at this point the tanking process is already in progress.

but what scares me is what’s going on in the east...Celtics are clearly the best young east team we’ve seen in years and those guys are for real and will be around for a long while. Then the bucks go out and add Bledsoe to their young talented team making their roster better and I believe we aren’t done seeing other east teams make moves to get a lot better.

so you know this 2-3 year plan schlenk has stated sounds like a fairy tale. Sure the east is weak right now but what the east will look like in 2-3 years we may find ourselves overmatched....all I can say is I’m not too worried about who we draft , at the end of the day Schlenks plan better work. And perhaps I’m full of it but we need to return to the playoffs next season if we can...like I’ve stated tanking for one year ok...two straight seasons? No sir...If we can’t get to the playoffs and we suck the 2nd year anyways fine just don’t purposely tank like we are now.

At end of the day

 

Dennis

Klay

Zion

Collins 

Ayton/Bamba 

 

will compete for NBA titles for the next 15 seasons. 

[JTB]

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

At end of the day

 

Dennis

Klay

Zion

Collins 

Ayton/Bamba 

 

will compete for NBA titles for the next 15 seasons. 

lol so we getting klay now?

you know he recently said he’d be willing to take a significant pay cut to stay with the warriors. They are trying to build a dynasty and there’s no reason Klay would want to leave the great chemistry they have going on there.

as for Zion , I like young Zion but he seriously need to drop some pounds and get in better shape before he enters the pros plus I’m hoping we aren’t a lotto team but for one season 

last I’m warming up to the idea of drafting Dončić just because we really badly need that other primary ball handler/playmaker type next to Dennis. Don’t get me wrong I’m still high on Porter jr and Ayton but I’m starting to think other than needing a scorer , we also need a ball handler just as bad where Dennis doesn’t have to work so hard offensively. To me I’m seeing that Prince could possibly be a 20 pt scorer in buds system if there was another play maker on the team.

therefore we could see 20/20/20 or maybe more realistically 18/18/18 scoring avg among Dennis/Dončić/Prince...also that allows Collins to get into the scoring fiesta too.

Edited November 8, 2017 by JTB