[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[Wurider05]

Drummond is trying to break the bank apparently but we were not falling for it. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256911/Andre-Drummonds-Extension-Demands-Kept-Hawks-From-Offering-First-Round-Pick-To-Pistons

Andre Drummond's Extension Demands Kept Hawks From Offering First Round Pick To Pistons

JAN 23, 2020 11:49 AM

The Atlanta Hawks were close to trading for Andre Drummond with an offer of Chandler Parsons and a 2020 first round pick from the Brooklyn Nets to the Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks, however, were unwilling to ultimately add the pick because Drummond's contract extension demands were too high for them.

Drummond is on a $27 million contract this season and is scheduled to earn $28.7 million next season if he were to opt in. 

While the center position has been devalued in recent seasons, Drummond could be one of the more attractive players in a limited free agent market in 2020.

KEVIN O'CONNOR/THE RINGER

TAGS: ANDRE DRUMMOND, ATLANTA HAWKS, DETROIT PISTONS, NBA, NBA TRADE RUMOR, NBA MISC

[Thomas]

Did not want to start another thread for this subject because that one deservedly belongs to lw3. Might not actually see a matchup against Steven Adams tonight or if we do it may be limited. At the very least though we will have an audition for Noel. 

On the Thunder side, Steven Adams is listed as questionable with a left ankle sprain and Terrance Ferguson is out for personal reasons. Adams’ availability will be big in determining expectations, as Oklahoma City relies heavily on the veteran for his two-way impact.

[JTB]

10 hours ago, Wurider05 said:

Drummond is trying to break the bank apparently but we were not falling for it. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256911/Andre-Drummonds-Extension-Demands-Kept-Hawks-From-Offering-First-Round-Pick-To-Pistons

Andre Drummond's Extension Demands Kept Hawks From Offering First Round Pick To Pistons

JAN 23, 2020 11:49 AM

The Atlanta Hawks were close to trading for Andre Drummond with an offer of Chandler Parsons and a 2020 first round pick from the Brooklyn Nets to the Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks, however, were unwilling to ultimately add the pick because Drummond's contract extension demands were too high for them.

Drummond is on a $27 million contract this season and is scheduled to earn $28.7 million next season if he were to opt in. 

While the center position has been devalued in recent seasons, Drummond could be one of the more attractive players in a limited free agent market in 2020.

KEVIN O'CONNOR/THE RINGER

TAGS: ANDRE DRUMMOND, ATLANTA HAWKS, DETROIT PISTONS, NBA, NBA TRADE RUMOR, NBA MISC

I’m not even mad to be honest ! I understand, if he could score at will for 30 mil a season I’d have a different reaction but he’s a rebounding machine for 30 mil it’s very different ...usually only elite scorers can demand and likely get the maximum contract no matter how bad they are in other areas of their game.

[macdaddy]

For 30 million I want to give them the ball and have them get me a bucket in crunch time.  Drummond's great at a lot of things (well one thing), but he's not that guy. 

[JTB]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

For 30 million I want to give them the ball and have them get me a bucket in crunch time.  Drummond's great at a lot of things (well one thing), but he's not that guy. 

Agreed ! I don’t even think a desperate team will give him 30 mil for the very reason you said. He can’t go get you bucket at will ...crunch time or not ....if he could he’d be a lot more valuable.

 

his real max to me is 21-23 mil with 23 mil on the almost too much side but depending on the teams cap situation.

[AHF]

49 minutes ago, JTB said:

Agreed ! I don’t even think a desperate team will give him 30 mil for the very reason you said. He can’t go get you bucket at will ...crunch time or not ....if he could he’d be a lot more valuable.

 

his real max to me is 21-23 mil with 23 mil on the almost too much side but depending on the teams cap situation.

Teams do crazy things with big men and salaries.  By way of example:

* Last year, Horford at 33 got $27M per and he sure can't get you that bucket;

* Same 2019 summer, a 3 years older Vucevic got $25M per and while he can get you buckets he is a liability on defense;

* In 2018 DeAndre Jordan was a poor man's version of Drummond and 5 years older but still got $23M; etc.

It is going to be very interesting to see where he lands and for how much in a market without a ton of top level competition.  I'd have to bet on him getting more than that $21-23M.  I'm expecting a contract that is over $100M for four years (or over the first four years).

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Teams do crazy things with big men and salaries.  Horford at 33 got $27M per; a 3 years older Vucevic got $25M per and while he can get you buckets he is a liability on defense; in 2018 DeAndre Jordan was a poor man's version of Drummond and 5 years older but still got $23M; etc.

It is going to be very interesting to see where he lands and for how much in a market without a ton of top level competition.  I'd have to bet on him getting more than that $21-23M.

Vuc and Horf are more modern Cs though.  Jordan was just a one year deal right?  I'd pay Drummond big bucks on a one year no problem.  Plus Jordan is there cause he's KD's buddy right?

[kg01]

54 minutes ago, JTB said:

Agreed ! I don’t even think a desperate team will give him 30 mil for the very reason you said. He can’t go get you bucket at will ...crunch time or not ....if he could he’d be a lot more valuable.

 

his real max to me is 21-23 mil with 23 mil on the almost too much side but depending on the teams cap situation.

Yeah, can't be paying a guy a max who probably can't be on the court in crunchtime.

Let's step aside and let the HorCats take a bite o' the Drumm-stick and wreck their future.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Vuc and Horf are more modern Cs though.  Jordan was just a one year deal right?  I'd pay Drummond big bucks on a one year no problem.  Plus Jordan is there cause he's KD's buddy right?

Jordan was terrible last year and got a smaller deal this year to be KD's buddy.  When he signed the prior deal I referenced, he was coming off of a 12 / 10 / 1 season and was signed by the Mavs and expected to be a big part of that team.  He disappointed and ended up traded but they were paying him not to be anyone's friend but to supposedly be this impact C.  And he clearly didn't have the case to be considered in the same breath as Drummond given his numbers and age.  But he still got $23M and from an organization supposedly as smart and modern as the Mavs.

Vuc and Horf are more modern Cs but Horf absolutely can't go get that bucket like JTB described.  Vuc is a modern center offensively but he doesn't do anything particularly well on defense other than rebound.  So they both present different fits than Drummond and may well be more attractive to certain teams than Drummond would be but I also think you'll find someone who is excited about Drummond's fit even in this modern era.

I'm still betting on that $100M+ contract for him at the end of the day.  He wouldn't be the first person to make a bad decision but he has to be pretty confident to opt out of nearly $29M next season if he is only going to get $21-23M on his next deal.  Add in the fact that he will be only 26 and I think someone will overpay.

[Atlantaholic]

15 hours ago, JTB said:

Oh yeah don’t worry about that! Resseler is serious about winning if we are contenders he will go over the cap, pay luxury tax the whole thing!

hes said this in two different interviews I recall since he’s become owner but honestly I can tell he will do it just based on how passionate he is about this hawks team.  
 

for once I don’t believe we have a owner that’s just all talk. I believe resseler can be a top owner in the league and he’s doing the right thing staying patient as much as he possibly can 

Hey, I'm an Atlanta sports fan. Been so for a long time. I'll believe all of that when I see it lol. 

[Atlantaholic]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

I’m not even mad to be honest ! I understand, if he could score at will for 30 mil a season I’d have a different reaction but he’s a rebounding machine for 30 mil it’s very different ...usually only elite scorers can demand and likely get the maximum contract no matter how bad they are in other areas of their game.

Happy to see we didn't pull the trigger on this one if 30 million was the price for Drummond. 

[AHF]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

Happy to see we didn't pull the trigger on this one if 30 million was the price for Drummond. 

I'm sure he is asking for that but will he get it?  That remains to be seen.  Just asking for it, however, underscores the risk of losing him in FA after this season and the caution we have to exercise before unloading a legit long-term asset for a short-term rental.

[thecampster]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm sure he is asking for that but will he get it?  That remains to be seen.  Just asking for it, however, underscores the risk of losing him in FA after this season and the caution we have to exercise before unloading a legit long-term asset for a short-term rental.

You cant get 30, if you dont ask for 30.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You cant get 30, if you dont ask for 30.

Yep.  This is his likely the high earning point of his career and he wants to get paid.  He'll make his best effort to do something like a 4 year, $120M deal.  If TS doesn't value him at that price, then it is tough to trade for him for real value (i.e., the Brooklyn pick) knowing he will walk if another team decides to open up its pocket book.

[JTB]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

I'm sure he is asking for that but will he get it?  That remains to be seen.  Just asking for it, however, underscores the risk of losing him in FA after this season and the caution we have to exercise before unloading a legit long-term asset for a short-term rental.

He’s not getting 30 mil from anybody! I just don’t believe he will. I don’t even think a desperate team will give it to him.

100mil over 4 years is more likely his High end ball park to me. That’s the deal I expect him to receive from someone and that’s honestly pushing it. He’s more so 23 mil per to me at the highest not that 2 mil is a big difference but hey

 

 Now I do wonder (being that Schlenk and the hawks showed interest forced or unforced lol)....what does Schlenk think he’s worth per year ? ....I’d really like to know Since they went as far as even discussing a max extension for him. After all the report did say they didn’t come to an agreement on  a  max extension ...the fact Schlenk even discussed it with them clearly shows Schlenk believes he is worthy or close enough to be worthy of such a contract though they didn’t get to an agreement....max contract or maybe what I like to say “near max contract” I don’t think Schlenk would waste his time if he didn’t think he was worth it.

and I get it was pushed by resseler but Schlenk may think he’s valuable as well but at a certain price.

Perhaps  @NBASupes or @thecampster has details on that.

Edited January 24, 2020 by JTB

[gurpilo]

I think a 4 year offer front loaded could be a good solution to land Drummond. I still think he is the best center available and he would be a fantastic addition for us.

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, JTB said:

He’s not getting 30 mil from anybody! I just don’t believe he will. I don’t even think a desperate team will give it to him.

100mil over 4 years is more likely his High end ball park to me. That’s the deal I expect him to receive from someone and that’s honestly pushing it. He’s more so 23 mil per to me at the highest not that 2 mil is a big difference but hey

 

 Now I do wonder (being that Schlenk and the hawks showed interest forced or unforced lol)....what does Schlenk think he’s worth per year ? ....I’d really like to know Since they went as far as even discussing a max extension for him. After all the report did say they didn’t come to an agreement on  a  max extension ...the fact Schlenk even discussed it with them clearly shows Schlenk believes he is worthy or close enough to be worthy of such a contract though they didn’t get to an agreement....max contract or maybe what I like to say “near max contract” I don’t think Schlenk would waste his time if he didn’t think he was worth it.

and I get it was pushed by resseler but Schlenk may think he’s valuable as well but at a certain price.

Perhaps  @NBASupes or @thecampster has details on that.

 

2 points -

1) Trae will be getting a max contract in 2.5 years. Collins will be getting a max or near max contract in 1.5 years.

2) The max cap at 6 or less years is 25% of the cap, > 6 years = 30% of the cap.

 

So lets tackle Trae and Collins first.

Even though it will be higher in 22 and 23, we will use the projected cap for 2021-2022 season for all numbers. $125 million/$151 (LT).  Although the cap is going to be $116 million next year, there is an inherent increase of the cap 1 and 2 years after that minimizing the effect of signings at max this year.

 

Drummond will be eligible for 30% of the cap next year max or starting at 34.8 million next year.

Trae and Collins would be eligible for 25% of the next cap starting at 31,25 million 2 years from now for Collins and 3 years from now for Trae.

Let's assume you give Trae the max and 90% of the max to Collins or $31.25 million and $28.125 million.  Also remembering you will have to resign Huerter, Reddish and Cam within 4 years. Let's also assume at this point the LT and not the Cap becomes the sticking point in 23-24 when all have to be signed.  You have $59.375 million tied up in Collins and Trae. If you gave Drummond the max you're well over $90 million for 3 players, leaving only $61 million for 12 other players to avoid the LT and this is the time frame you are projecting you are a top 4 team going after the championship.  It is my opinion you have to allow closer to $70 million for those other 12 players (minimum).  So simple math is 151-$59-Center = $70 million.  $92 million - Center = $70 million.  In this case, you would have to spend $22 million for a Center in 23-24 maximum in order to avoid the LT.  So the Hawks and Drummond are probably $8 million per season or about $32 million total apart.

 

All numbers are assumptions on my part and dependent on the cap beyond 21-22 and the development of all players/pick slotting, etc.

 

 

 

[JTB]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

 

2 points -

1) Trae will be getting a max contract in 2.5 years. Collins will be getting a max or near max contract in 1.5 years.

2) The max cap at 6 or less years is 25% of the cap, > 6 years = 30% of the cap.

 

So lets tackle Trae and Collins first.

Even though it will be higher in 22 and 23, we will use the projected cap for 2021-2022 season for all numbers. $125 million/$151 (LT).  Although the cap is going to be $116 million next year, there is an inherent increase of the cap 1 and 2 years after that minimizing the effect of signings at max this year.

 

Drummond will be eligible for 30% of the cap next year max or starting at 34.8 million next year.

Trae and Collins would be eligible for 25% of the next cap starting at 31,25 million 2 years from now for Collins and 3 years from now for Trae.

Let's assume you give Trae the max and 90% of the max to Collins or $31.25 million and $28.125 million.  Also remembering you will have to resign Huerter, Reddish and Cam within 4 years. Let's also assume at this point the LT and not the Cap becomes the sticking point in 23-24 when all have to be signed.  You have $59.375 million tied up in Collins and Trae. If you gave Drummond the max you're well over $90 million for 3 players, leaving only $61 million for 12 other players to avoid the LT and this is the time frame you are projecting you are a top 4 team going after the championship.  It is my opinion you have to allow closer to $70 million for those other 12 players (minimum).  So simple math is 151-$59-Center = $70 million.  $92 million - Center = $70 million.  In this case, you would have to spend $22 million for a Center in 23-24 maximum in order to avoid the LT.  So the Hawks and Drummond are probably $8 million per season or about $32 million total apart.

 

All numbers are assumptions on my part and dependent on the cap beyond 21-22 and the development of all players/pick slotting, etc.

 

 

 

Thanks!..

Another question....

I just saw Detroit get 8 or 9mil for Blake’s injury (the disabled player exception)...can the hawks get this for parsons ? And if so can it be used in a trade ? 

[thecampster]

Disabled Player Exception

Allows a team that is over the cap

 

see above...that is not us.

[gurpilo]

hace 13 horas, thecampster dijo:

 

2 points -

1) Trae will be getting a max contract in 2.5 years. Collins will be getting a max or near max contract in 1.5 years.

2) The max cap at 6 or less years is 25% of the cap, > 6 years = 30% of the cap.

 

So lets tackle Trae and Collins first.

Even though it will be higher in 22 and 23, we will use the projected cap for 2021-2022 season for all numbers. $125 million/$151 (LT).  Although the cap is going to be $116 million next year, there is an inherent increase of the cap 1 and 2 years after that minimizing the effect of signings at max this year.

 

Drummond will be eligible for 30% of the cap next year max or starting at 34.8 million next year.

Trae and Collins would be eligible for 25% of the next cap starting at 31,25 million 2 years from now for Collins and 3 years from now for Trae.

Let's assume you give Trae the max and 90% of the max to Collins or $31.25 million and $28.125 million.  Also remembering you will have to resign Huerter, Reddish and Cam within 4 years. Let's also assume at this point the LT and not the Cap becomes the sticking point in 23-24 when all have to be signed.  You have $59.375 million tied up in Collins and Trae. If you gave Drummond the max you're well over $90 million for 3 players, leaving only $61 million for 12 other players to avoid the LT and this is the time frame you are projecting you are a top 4 team going after the championship.  It is my opinion you have to allow closer to $70 million for those other 12 players (minimum).  So simple math is 151-$59-Center = $70 million.  $92 million - Center = $70 million.  In this case, you would have to spend $22 million for a Center in 23-24 maximum in order to avoid the LT.  So the Hawks and Drummond are probably $8 million per season or about $32 million total apart.

 

All numbers are assumptions on my part and dependent on the cap beyond 21-22 and the development of all players/pick slotting, etc.

 

 

 

Ummm considering that next 3 years Hunter, Reddish and most likely next year 2 picks will be part of the core in rookie contracts adding Young and Collins on Max contract and Huerter in a reasonable contract, that is a core of 7 players with roughly 90 million , you still have 40 million to sign 5 players. I see perfectly possible signing Drummond to a 4 year contract 100million $ front loaded with last year been a team option. That way you can choose and sign Cam or Hunter to good contracts or chose Drummond. 8 players with 4 slots to add rotation players at 15 million $