Collins has to PROVE more! Sorry but the clock starts now...

[Buzzard]

Just now, KB21 said:

So, we have to wait till these young guys are 25-26 years of age before we start winning?

No, teams start winning before that. I do think when Collins hits his peak, 25 and 10, we are going to be happy as hell we still have him; and are not having to chase a free agent power forward to fill a huge gap in our lineup.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Collins has very little to prove going into the summer.  His next level of development will be if he can score at will on people in isolation or in the post.

He's looking for the max, by the way

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Collins has very little to prove going into the summer.  His next level of development will be if he can score at will on people in isolation or in the post.

He's looking for the max, by the way

Collins will get a huge offer. Charlotte would probably love to steal him away. The Knicks are a possibility as no one ever knows what the hell they will do. Schlenk is playing his cards close to his vest as usual; but I don't see him losing Collins.

He drafted him and he will not let him walk for nothing.

[Spud2nique]

As @Buzzard mentioned a few posts ago, he’s not turned 23. When he plays, he produces. One of the most versatile 4’s out there by far. The step back 3’s, the drives, the post and ball handling, some of these can use sharpening this summer.

We drafted him. We are grooming him. I’m not trading a modern day Shawn Kemp in 1992. In fact, speaking of which, look at Kemp’s first 3 years, he got better and better, NEXT 6 YEARS HE WAS AN ALL STAR! ️ He learned to use that athleticism to create space for his teammates. They were pretty dominant and made the finals vs the Bulls in 96. 
 

Kemp had Payton, Collins has Trae. 
 

I vote 🗳 to continue with JC! Onward and upward. 
 

Here is the Kemp stats, again first 3 years he was learning, the next 6 he was an all star ️. Ya, let’s keep JC.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kempsh01.html

[AHF]

I'm happy to pay whatever is needed to keep JC.  We'll see what that ends up being.  If TS feels differently, he needs to match or trade him.  Can't let him walk.

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Can't let him walk.

 No this isn’t the Sap case. If we let him walk, Schlenk should be fired on the spot.

[KB21]

Looks like I am right once again about this process.  Fans want to pay up on a guy based on what you think he may become when he is 25-26 years of age AND before the team produces wins.

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm happy to pay whatever is needed to keep JC.  We'll see what that ends up being.  If TS feels differently, he needs to match or trade him.  Can't let him walk.

We can't be gun-shy about paying guys we developed.  If you believe in your process, prove it.  It is what it is.

Can't be the Magic, trading away guys to go be better for other teams.

Collins is an uptick in defense away from being our Karl McClone.

Any anyone who thinks that's laughable didn't see Malone's first couple years.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

We constantly measure Collins against 25 to 30 year olds and I think a lot of us forget he will not even turn 23 until September.

Exactly. Not so much age, but NBA experience. 

He's still a developing player.

 

44 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Collins has very little to prove going into the summer.  His next level of development will be if he can score at will on people in isolation or in the post.

He's looking for the max, by the way

 

That's still the question. He said that will be his focus in the offseason.

Quote

Pierce said Monday that Collins isn’t a player who can be given the ball and expected to go make a play. Some of the areas Pierce wanted to see growth in Collins’ game this season didn’t come, like grabbing a rebound and being able to go coast to coast.

I want our wings to do this too. Instead of always looking to Trae to bring the ball up court.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

We can't be gun-shy about paying guys we developed.  If you believe in your process, prove it.  It is what it is.

Can't be the Magic, trading away guys to go be better for other teams.

Collins is an uptick in defense away from being our Karl McClone.

Any anyone who thinks that's laughable didn't see Malone's first couple years.

Oohhh....nice 

[JTB]

https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-hawks-hesitant-big-contract-222724626.html
 

I’m not surprised...in fact my prediction is lining up to exactly what I said. Collins need to Continue prove his defense 

[JTB]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Collins has very little to prove going into the summer.  His next level of development will be if he can score at will on people in isolation or in the post.

He's looking for the max, by the way

I disagree....he still has a lot to prove and his believe it has more to do with defense than offense. There’s no reason we need Collins to score at will. We have trae and cam for that in the future. How Collins score without the ball in his hands or plays ran for him is exactly what you need to add to two other ball dominate players.

whats funny is Collins mentioned in that “Athletic” article that he felt like he scores in isolation....I think I read that anyways 

[JTB]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

We can't be gun-shy about paying guys we developed.  If you believe in your process, prove it.  It is what it is.

Can't be the Magic, trading away guys to go be better for other teams.

Collins is an uptick in defense away from being our Karl McClone.

Any anyone who thinks that's laughable didn't see Malone's first couple years.

That is a good point .....I don’t want us to be like the magic that’s for damn sure! 

However....this is good point too
 

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

Looks like I am right once again about this process.  Fans want to pay up on a guy based on what you think he may become when he is 25-26 years of age AND before the team produces wins.

That’s the TWolves/Suns mentality! ....paying guys based on stats and not actual wins. 
 

it’s going to be a very very tough decision. These are two extremely good points ! but that’s why it’s great that we can just restrict him. We can get one more year out of JC for basically nothing 

[KB21]

28 minutes ago, JTB said:

That is a good point .....I don’t want us to be like the magic that’s for damn sure! 

However....this is good point too
 

That’s the TWolves/Suns mentality! ....paying guys based on stats and not actual wins. 
 

it’s going to be a very very tough decision. These are two extremely good points ! but that’s why it’s great that we can just restrict him. We can get one more year out of JC for basically nothing 

I’m curious to see how much their future plans with John also affects what they do in free agency this off season.  If you are planning on maxing John, then Trae isn’t far behind him.  That’s going to be two max deals.  I highly doubt you see them bring in another max deal type of player if they are planning on maxing both John and Trae.  In fact, you may not see them bring in anyone on a deal longer than 2 years.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, KB21 said:

Looks like I am right once again about this process.  Fans want to pay up on a guy based on what you think he may become when he is 25-26 years of age AND before the team produces wins.

That's normally how it works.  If we don't, some other team will.

 

3 hours ago, JTB said:

I disagree....he still has a lot to prove and his believe it has more to do with defense than offense. There’s no reason we need Collins to score at will. We have trae and cam for that in the future. How Collins score without the ball in his hands or plays ran for him is exactly what you need to add to two other ball dominate players.

whats funny is Collins mentioned in that “Athletic” article that he felt like he scores in isolation....I think I read that anyways 

If Collins was healthy the entire year, would he have made the All-Star team?

And we definitely need Collins to be able to score at will.  This is how championships are won.  You don't win it with role players.  You win it with "engines" who can get tough buckets at the end of games.   If the Hawks also had the inside option to go to, instead of a 30 foot Trae 3, this team would be even tougher to guard.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by TheNorthCydeRises

[NBASupes]

15 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Collins has very little to prove going into the summer.  His next level of development will be if he can score at will on people in isolation or in the post.

He's looking for the max, by the way

No need to really address him till next offseason if he wants the max

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, JTB said:

That is a good point .....I don’t want us to be like the magic that’s for damn sure! 

However....this is good point too
 

That’s the TWolves/Suns mentality! ....paying guys based on stats and not actual wins. 
 

it’s going to be a very very tough decision. These are two extremely good points ! but that’s why it’s great that we can just restrict him. We can get one more year out of JC for basically nothing 

It's an easy decision. Wait till 2021 free Agency class. I'll rather see if we can get a big dog anyway.

Edited March 11, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

15 hours ago, AHF said:

I'm happy to pay whatever is needed to keep JC.  We'll see what that ends up being.  If TS feels differently, he needs to match or trade him.  Can't let him walk.

That much is obvious.

[Carmine]

Collins needs to play defense more consistently before I would even consider giving him a max contract. Too much left to be desired on that end. I want to keep him but if that report is true I also would be hesitant to pay him the max.  If he does get the max, half should go to Trae cuz he can't create on his own.

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, Carmine said:

Collins needs to play defense more consistently before I would even consider giving him a max contract. Too much left to be desired on that end. I want to keep him but if that report is true I also would be hesitant to pay him the max.  If he does get the max, half should go to Trae cuz he can't create on his own.

JC averages more points per game when Trae is out than he does when Trae plays.  

JC has scored 30+ 7 times in 40 games.  In the 7 games that Trae missed, JC scored 30+ points 3 times.

Not seeing a great argument that JC is completely dependent on Trae.