Official Game Thread: Hawks at Celtics

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Well, I draw a distinction between "drawing fouls" and "foul-baiting".  I have no issue with trying to draw fouls but foul-baiting is something refs will stop rewarding.  We've already seen it start to go uncalled.  It has a shelf-life.  

Agreed. But I would say the only game this year where I felt like Trae REALLY crossed the line and took it too far was the Nets game where Nash complained.  And honestly, I complained about it that game too.  In that game, he had a stretch where he wasn't running the offense but was instead just jumping into players once the Hawks were in the bonus.  It was absurd.  

But he doesn't do that in general. That's been the only game I can recall.  Now he obviously tries to sell all contact as a foul.  And if that's your line in the sand, then fine. We disagree.  But I don't have any issue with his jumping for a shot every time he feels contact because it does produce FTs and gets the other team out of sync and in foul trouble.  

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Well, I draw a distinction between "drawing fouls" and "foul-baiting".  I have no issue with trying to draw fouls but foul-baiting is something refs will stop rewarding.  We've already seen it start to go uncalled.  It has a shelf-life.  

Yes, use it, but don't over use it. I think at times it's hurt Trae's offensive rhythm. When you dont get the calls, it's a sure turnover or missed shot. Last night in the 4th Old Trae came out and was hitting shots, no fouls necessary. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

What's the plan when teams do this for an entire game. We've had some success, but the 4th quarters especially haven't been successful.  Guys are still looking to Trae instead of EXECUTING whatever the game plan is. Someone has to step up (Hunter was).

[bleachkit]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

What's the plan when teams do this for an entire game. We've had some success, but the 4th quarters especially haven't been successful.  Guys are still looking to Trae instead of EXECUTING whatever the game plan is. Someone has to step up (Hunter was).

If I'm an opposing coach, I'm doubling Trae. JC and Capela need to be fed, they can't feed themselves. And if Kevin and Cam hit open shots, well then you live with that. But no way do I let Trae go off.

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If I'm an opposing coach, I'm doubling Trae. JC and Capela need to be fed, they can't feed themselves. And if Kevin and Cam hit open shots, well then you live with that. But no way do I let Trae go off.

We have found success with feeding JC and Cap off the traps, where we have struggled mightily is the WIDE open missed shots from the wings, I would like to see them not ALWAYS settle for those shots.

[REHawksFan]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We have found success with feeding JC and Cap off the traps, where we have struggled mightily is the WIDE open missed shots from the wings, I would like to see them not ALWAYS settle for those shots.

Stevens HAS to spend all night doubling Trae tomorrow, doesn't he?  It just gives teams a much better chance of success to do that.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

41 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Well, I draw a distinction between "drawing fouls" and "foul-baiting".  I have no issue with trying to draw fouls but foul-baiting is something refs will stop rewarding.  We've already seen it start to go uncalled.  It has a shelf-life.  

I think what Trae needs to stop doing, is complaining after every call.  I think that gets more of the ref's nerves more than Trae actually trying to draw contact.   

The refs will call the foul, just not reward the FT attempts early on.  But it's a great way to get us in the bonus, in which even if they don't call a shooting foul, it still ends up being 2 FT attempts.

Trae is 5th in the league in Free Throw rate, which is absolutely incredible for a 6 - 1 guard.  The only other guard in the top 10 in FT rate, is Ben Simmons, the biggest PG in the league ( who is really a point forward ) at 6 - 11.  In recent history, the only small guards to have a FT rate comparable to Trae's, are former one-time Hawk killer Ramon Sessions and Atlanta's own Lou "Lemon Pepper" Williams.

I don't count James Harden in this ( the one who people would guess draws the most fouls as a guard ), because he's a little bigger at 6 - 5.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Stevens HAS to spend all night doubling Trae tomorrow, doesn't he?  It just gives teams a much better chance of success to do that.  

I would think that's the plan, but they may not have the horses for it. If Marcus Smart was available it would be easier vs who they have. Brown and Tatum can but they don't have a backline defense to help in the paint.

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think what Trae needs to stop doing, is complaining after every call.  I think that gets more of the ref's nerves more than Trae actually trying to draw contact.   

The refs will call the foul, just not reward the FT attempts early on.  But it's a great way to get us in the bonus, in which even if they don't call a shooting foul, it still ends up being 2 FT attempts.

Trae is 5th in the league in Free Throw rate, which is absolutely incredible for a 6 - 1 guard.  The only other guard in the top 10 in FT rate, is Ben Simmons, the biggest PG in the league ( who is really a point forward ) at 6 - 11.  In recent history, the only small guards to have a FT rate comparable to Trae's, are former one-time Hawk killer Ramon Sessions and Atlanta's own Lou "Lemon Pepper" Williams.

I don't count James Harden in this ( the one who people would guess draws the most fouls as a guard ), because he's a little bigger at 6 - 5.

Simmons isn't 6'11".

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think what Trae needs to stop doing, is complaining after every call.  I think that gets more of the ref's nerves more than Trae actually trying to draw contact.   

The refs will call the foul, just not reward the FT attempts early on.  But it's a great way to get us in the bonus, in which even if they don't call a shooting foul, it still ends up being 2 FT attempts.

Trae is 5th in the league in Free Throw rate, which is absolutely incredible for a 6 - 1 guard.  The only other guard in the top 10 in FT rate, is Ben Simmons, the biggest PG in the league ( who is really a point forward ) at 6 - 11.  In recent history, the only small guards to have a FT rate comparable to Trae's, are former one-time Hawk killer Ramon Sessions and Atlanta's own Lou "Lemon Pepper" Williams.

I don't count James Harden in this ( the one who people would guess draws the most fouls as a guard ), because he's a little bigger at 6 - 5.

I'm not gonna complain one bit about the calls Trae gets. The Hawks have been on the losing end of the ref whistle since I've been a Hawks fan.

Like you, I don't like the complaining (and not just from Trae) and I don't like when he's first looking for the contact vs actually trying to making the shot. But trying to get a shooting foul once he hears the whistle, I take no issue (but the refs have refused to give him any continuation shots since Nash sounded off) since it gets us in the bonus. 

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm not gonna complain one bit about the calls Trae gets. The Hawks have been on the losing end of the ref whistle since I've been a Hawks fan.

Like you, I don't like the complaining (and not just from Trae) and I don't like when he's first looking for the contact vs actually trying to making the shot. But trying to get a shooting foul once he hears the whistle, I take no issue (but the refs have refused to give him any continuation shots since Nash sounded off) since it gets us in the bonus. 

Right. Other players get the continuation on way less clear  instances. Refs have swallowed their whistles a lot on Trae and he is still making teams pay. 

Drawing fouls is a natural response to a being tiny and teams trying to beat on him because of it. If they are going to get physical within a him,  he will bait you in to the foul. The only way he will get room to breathe is if he de-incentivizes physical play from his opponent. It's smart on his part.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

46 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We have found success with feeding JC and Cap off the traps, where we have struggled mightily is the WIDE open missed shots from the wings, I would like to see them not ALWAYS settle for those shots.

Correct.  They're wide open for a reason.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

28 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Simmons isn't 6'11".

SMH.  Ya'll gonna learn about me sooner or later. 

I'm not just pulling stuff out of my butt when I say it.

https://www.nba.com/player/1627732/ben-simmons

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

SMH.  Ya'll gonna learn about me sooner or later. 

I'm not just pulling stuff out of my butt when I say it.

https://www.nba.com/player/1627732/ben-simmons

I'm not disputing that's his listed height, I'm just saying it's wrong. Here's a picture of Ben Simmons standing next to Brandon Ingram. By the way Brandon Ingram is listed as 6'8".

https://www.nba.com/player/1627742/brandon-ingram

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

I'm not disputing that's his listed height, I'm just saying it's wrong. Here's a picture of Ben Simmons standing next to Brandon Ingram. By the way Brandon Ingram is listed as 6'8".

https://www.nba.com/player/1627742/brandon-ingram

Ben had a growth spurt while in the NBA. Why do you always think guys stop growing the minute they put a NBA jersey on is literally one of the annoying things you do on this site or anyone for that matter

Edited February 18, 2021 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Here's an excellent video on how Trae draws fouls.

This was pre-Nash complaint.  And this video actually highlights that first Brooklyn game.

 

 

[bleachkit]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Ben had a growth spurt while in the NBA. Why do you always think guys stop growing the minute they put a NBA jersey on is literally one of the annoying things you do on this site or anyone for that matter

Supes, you think everyone has a magical growth of 4 inches at at age 19 or 20. Um, no. Simmons is not 6'11. I would bet my life savings if I measured Ben Simmons he would not be 6'11." Here he is standing next to 6'8.5" Lebron James in different years.

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2019/10/21/lebron-james-officially-measured-at-68-5-thanks-to-new-nba-rules/

[kg01]

Why do you care so much about it (listed vs actual height) anyways, bleachk?

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ben had a growth spurt while in the NBA. Why do you always think guys stop growing the minute they put a NBA jersey on is literally one of the annoying things you do on this site or anyone for that matter

Ooh, ooh, do me next.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Why do you care so much about it (listed vs actual height) anyways, bleachk?

Ooh, ooh, do me next.

I think there is something to be said for accuracy. Literally no other sports does this, where heights are completely fabricated, and players who are clearly about the same height are listed 4 inches apart. NBA was supposed to correct the bullshit heights, but I guess some players have been allowed to keep their exaggerated height, one being Ben Simmons, who is not 6'11''.

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Supes, you think everyone has a magical growth of 4 inches at at age 19 or 20. Um, no. Simmons is not 6'11. I would bet my life savings if I measured Ben Simmons he would not be 6'11." Here he is standing next to 6'8.5" Lebron James in different years.

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2019/10/21/lebron-james-officially-measured-at-68-5-thanks-to-new-nba-rules/

LeBron is 6'8.5... BAREFOOT. With shoes, he's 6'10