Official Game Thread: Cavaliers at Hawks

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

How a team plays is best measured over a larger period of time.  We will see the results much further into the season.  
 

I agree with a lot of what you just said (the importance of a focus, disciplined defense and the development needed for our young players).  It will take time for Nate to get our young guys where he wants them to be

Thank you and the notion promoted by some that we have to shoot our way into wins is what I push back against.  That was the LP way but not the Nate way and I'm loving it!  That was my biggest complaint with LP.  He always favored offense over defense with those stupid small line ups.  Plus I think sowing the offense down has help the Hawks with decrease turnovers

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Thank you and the notion promoted by some that we have to shoot our way into wins is what I push back against.  That was the LP way but not the Nate way and I'm loving it!  That was my biggest complaint with LP.  He always favored offense over defense with those stupid small line ups.  Plus I think sowing the offense down has help the Hawks with decrease turnovers

Re has never said defense isn’t important.  He has said that the team is beat suited to win when Trae looks for his own offense rather than having the ball move around the floor to the open man for the “best” shot because our other players are not good enough to make enough of those shots.  So Trae needs to put pressure on the defense not by taking bad shots but asserting himself so that the defense is forced to distort its spacing and schemes to account for his pressure and then to play make after that.

What he says and what you say are best for you helping the team win are not mutually exclusive and could go hand in hand.

You are definitely not alone in the frustration when LP went small.  Some amount of it is fine but in crunch time of a close game pulling Capela over and over was just bad coaching.

[Gray Mule]

17 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Nathan Knight played last night.  One minute.  He should be ready to go tonight.

 

Nice to know that he came through.  He's big enough, 6'10" - 235 lb., to bang with the big boys.  He wasn't drafted at all so we picked him up.  Right now, that looks like a good move.

[thecampster]

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Good hustle by Knight.

Don't you just love this kid?  Seriously, Knight's got a very silky game for a big. Seems to have very good awareness (and looking like Denzel's love child doesn't hurt).

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

Re has never said defense isn’t important.  He has said that the team is beat suited to win when Trae looks for his own offense rather than having the ball move around the floor to the open man for the “best” shot because our other players are not good enough to make enough of those shots. 

And I disagree with this...The true contenders don't play this way.  Houston has tried this and had major problems in the playoffs and Harden is a much better offensive player than Young.  Nate preaches playing the right way after every game and it is now being echoed by players on the team.  The team is winning with this philosophy so I think Re is completely wrong in this regard.

11 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Don't you just love this kid?  Seriously, Knight's got a very silky game for a big. Seems to have very good awareness (and looking like Denzel's love child doesn't hurt).

He has all of the skills from what I see.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

You are definitely not alone in the frustration when LP went small.  Some amount of it is fine but in crunch time of a close game pulling Capela over and over was just bad coaching.

It wasn't just that...If you go look at some on those earlier games, You will see plenty of Goodwin/Trae line ups or Trae/Rondo line ups.  You have not seen 1 minute of those line ups with Nate.

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

And I disagree with this...The true contenders don't play this way.  Houston has tried this and had major problems in the playoffs and Harden is a much better offensive player than Young.  Nate preaches playing the right way after every game and it is now being echoed by players on the team.  The team is winning with this philosophy so I think Re is completely wrong in this regard.

He has all of the skills from what I see.

Tons of champions have played this way.  The greatest team in NBA history did not move the ball around for the best shot but let Michael Jordan initiate the offense and then other guys like Steve Kerr got good shots playing off of him.  This is hardly a new idea or limited to Harden.  And we've seen it under Nate with Trae posting a bunch of high scoring games.

[Peoriabird]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Tons of champions have played this way.  The greatest team in NBA history did not move the ball around for the best shot but let Michael Jordan initiate the offense and then other guys like Steve Kerr got good shots playing off of him.  This is hardly a new idea or limited to Harden.  And we've seen it under Nate with Trae posting a bunch of high scoring games.

Well Trae ain't Micheal Jordan either plus when Jordan retired for 2 years, that same team went to the conference semi-finals both years

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Well Trae ain't Micheal Jordan either plus when Jordan retired for 2 years, that same team went to the conference finals both years

The team didn't make the conference finals either year during those two seasons. 

And they did not work the ball around to the open man.  Scottie filled Jordan's shoes taking ~50% more shots than the next guy and over 150% more than the team's #4 option.  Even without Jordan, they played the way that Re is advocating.  

[MarylandHawk]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

You keep saying this BS.  Don't you see what is happening?  The same thing happened in the Miami game.  Maybe some of y'all are just slow to understand what Nate is doing but I see such a difference in the team's mentality.  Less of a focus on shooting 3's and more of a focus on defensive rebounding and limiting turnovers.  Nate himself said that this is the focus and it is happening but yet y'all keep trying to convince yourselves that it isn't.  I find this very strange.

Yes. I also noticed the pace of play is down significantly. This reduces the other teams opportunities to score. That is why the scoring has been so low of late. This how DeAndre Hunter played at Virginia. He should excel in this style when he returns. 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Don't you just love this kid?  Seriously, Knight's got a very silky game for a big. Seems to have very good awareness (and looking like Denzel's love child doesn't hurt).

He's springy too.  Plays with enthusiasm that's fun to root for.

[MarylandHawk]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

He's springy too.  Plays with enthusiasm that's fun to root for.

When you look at his college play, he has so many skills that he is very good at. The only question was would it translate to the NBA. Well...

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

The team didn't make the conference finals either year during those two seasons. 

And they did not work the ball around to the open man.  Scottie filled Jordan's shoes taking ~50% more shots than the next guy and over 150% more than the team's #4 option.  Even without Jordan, they played the way that Re is advocating.  

You're right they made it to the conference semi finals.

[kg01]

Is Kevin Love ded?

Does he really want to play?

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

When you look at his college play, he has so many skills that he is very good at. The only question was would it translate to the NBA. Well...

Before, I said Knight was what we thought Oko would be.  That's incorrect.  Knight is what folks thought Obi Toppin would be.

[AHF]

Just now, kg01 said:

Before, I said Knight was what we thought Oko would be.  That's incorrect.  Knight is what folks thought Obi Toppin would be.

He has been in his two standout games for sure.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

The team didn't make the conference finals either year during those two seasons. 

And they did not work the ball around to the open man.  Scottie filled Jordan's shoes taking ~50% more shots than the next guy and over 150% more than the team's #4 option.  Even without Jordan, they played the way that Re is advocating.  

No one is suggesting that everyone on the team takes the same number of shots but rather the right play be made on offense.  And when a play breaks down, certainly your star offensive player will be counted on to make something happen.  But that not what Re is saying.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No one is suggesting that everyone on the team takes the same number of shots but rather the right play be made on offense.  And when a play breaks down, certainly your star offensive player will be counted on to make something happen.  But that not what Re is saying.

Pippen asserted himself offensively and guys played off of him without Jordan.  It was not a matter of moving the ball and letting the open guy shoot.

Again, this is hardly unique.  Most championship teams don't give more shots to the Derek Fischers of the world just because they have more space to shoot and feed their Kobe, etc. even though those guys are more tightly guarded and their objective quality of shot opportunity as much lower and feed that star as the baseline to their offense.  

As I understand his argument, he is saying that with our team opposing defenses will leave our non-Trae perimeter shooters open time and time again and so if the "right" shot is the open one then we will see a ton of shot opportunities for guys like Cam, Solo, Rondo, Goodwin, and to a lesser degree guys like Kevin, Bogi, Gallo, etc. on nights when they aren't hot.  Re says they should play where they don't simply take the open 3 and instead ensure that Trae (despite drawing league leading numbers of double teams) gets his so that we have a better range of options for the rest of the team than "Solo open for 3", "Cam open for 3", etc.

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

As I understand his argument, he is saying that with our team opposing defenses will leave our non-Trae perimeter shooters open time and time again and so if the "right" shot is the open one then we will see a ton of shot opportunities for guys like Cam, Solo, Rondo, Goodwin, and to a lesser degree guys like Kevin, Bogi, Gallo, etc. on nights when they aren't hot.  Re says they should play where they don't simply take the open 3 and instead ensure that Trae (despite drawing league leading numbers of double teams) gets his so that we have a better range of options for the rest of the team than "Solo open for 3", "Cam open for 3", etc.

Is there that big of a difference in 3 point shooting percentages between John, Huerter, Trae, Snell, Hunter, and Gallo?

[kg01]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

He has been in his two standout games for sure.

You just needed a breather, huh?