Official Game Thread: Warriors at Hawks

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

While i agree with him it kind of ignores the fact that Gallo, Bogi, and Lou Will weren't really there for LP consistently early on.   

But Hunter and John Collins were there and so was Cam.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But Hunter and John Collins were there and so was Cam.

Very true.  I'm not defending LP at all but those 3 vets stepped up big time for us last night.   I"m just saying it's not exactly apples to apples but i think everyone pretty agrees with the sentiment.  This team under LP was not closing out games at all, especially games without big contributions from Trae and JC.  

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Very true.  I'm not defending LP at all but those 3 vets stepped up big time for us last night.   I"m just saying it's not exactly apples to apples but i think everyone pretty agrees with the sentiment.  This team under LP was not closing out games at all, especially games without big contributions from Trae and JC.  

And to me his approach was wrong.  We depended too much on the 3 ball and like someone else pointed out, the wrong guy would be shooting.  Also LP depended on Trae's inconsistent 3 point shot and lets face it, Trae is not a great 3 point shooter especially under duress.  also Nate slowed the game down for this young team and it has help with the turnovers with the exception of Trae.  The other big thing that has changed is the recognition of mismatches which was on full display last night particularly down the stretch.  This is what won the game last night.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

And to me his approach was wrong.  We depended too much on the 3 ball and like someone else pointed out, the wrong guy would be shooting.  Also LP depended on Trae's inconsistent 3 point shot and lets face it, Trae is not a great 3 point shooter especially under duress.  also Nate slowed the game down for this young team and it has help with the turnovers with the exception of Trae.  The other big thing that has changed is the recognition of mismatches which was on full display last night particularly down the stretch.  This is what won the game last night.

Oh and lets not forget the emphasis on defense!  I think we are now a top 10 in defense without Hunter and Reddish.

[kg01]

37 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I haven't eaten there in decades but I'm the guy who invented putting fries on a quarter pounder with cheese.   And i aint lying.  

Lies, I patented that years ago as a McDonald's employee.  Also started the big Mac sauce on Nuggets trend.

Nowadays, decades later, I don't touch mcd's other than fries or Nuggets.  I never go there after 7pm, and you folks shouldn't either.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Oh and lets not forget the emphasis on defense!  I think we are now a top 10 in defense without Hunter and Reddish.

I seriously doubt that.  Despite slowing down the pace (which decreases the points yielded per game but does not by itself improve defense), over our last 10 games we are giving up an average of 111 points.  That vaunted 4th quarter defense over the same period of time has been slightly worse than the full game numbers.  We've given up an average of 28.1 points per 4th quarter and have been outscored in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 10 games.

That is not a top 10 defense.  We've been overcoming that defense with our scoring (with Bogi being our #1 or #2 scorer in the 4th quarter in 5 of those 10 games).

[Peoriabird]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

I seriously doubt that.  Despite slowing down the pace (which decreases the points yielded per game but does not by itself improve defense), over our last 10 games we are giving up an average of 111 points.  That vaunted 4th quarter defense over the same period of time has been slightly worse than the full game numbers.  We've given up an average of 28.1 points per 4th quarter and have been outscored in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 10 games.

That is not a top 10 defense.  We've been overcoming that defense with our scoring (with Bogi being our #1 or #2 scorer in the 4th quarter in 5 of those 10 games).

Ok they are 13th during the last 15 games v being 22nd for the season

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=DEF_RATING&LastNGames=15

[Peoriabird]

43 minutes ago, AHF said:

I seriously doubt that.  Despite slowing down the pace (which decreases the points yielded per game but does not by itself improve defense), over our last 10 games we are giving up an average of 111 points.  That vaunted 4th quarter defense over the same period of time has been slightly worse than the full game numbers.  We've given up an average of 28.1 points per 4th quarter and have been outscored in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 10 games.

That is not a top 10 defense. 

LP's defensive rating rank was 24th

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency?date=2021-03-01

[terrell]

Good Coaching right here....lol

 

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Ok they are 13th during the last 15 games v being 22nd for the season

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=DEF_RATING&LastNGames=15

Right.  Clearly not top 10.

We built up some outstanding DRtg numbers during the opening "weak sisters of the poor" part of our schedule and have fallen back significantly since.  See the numbers above against a more normal mix of teams over our last 10.

But I don't disagree with you that we have been better on defense during Nate's tenure.  We are a better team on both ends of the floor, IMO.  Just not a great defense.  Middle of the pack.  If/when, Cam and Hunter return we have the potential to take another step forward.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, terrell said:

Good Coaching right here....lol

 

Pretty funny clip!  That is some Josh Smith defense (i.e., the defense other teams employed against us when Josh had the ball out there).  Green just happened to be smart enough on that play not to settle for the jumper and it paid off for GS.

 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

And to me his approach was wrong.  We depended too much on the 3 ball and like someone else pointed out, the wrong guy would be shooting.  Also LP depended on Trae's inconsistent 3 point shot and lets face it, Trae is not a great 3 point shooter especially under duress.  also Nate slowed the game down for this young team and it has help with the turnovers with the exception of Trae.  The other big thing that has changed is the recognition of mismatches which was on full display last night particularly down the stretch.  This is what won the game last night.

Nate isnt going to put up with too many 7 turnover games thats for sure..Good thing we have Sweet Lou now when Trae is erratic Trae..

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Oh and lets not forget the emphasis on defense!  I think we are now a top 10 in defense without Hunter and Reddish.

Are we gonna see Hunter and Reddish again this season? Im beginning to wonder......

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

Right.  Clearly not top 10.

We built up some outstanding DRtg numbers during the opening "weak sisters of the poor" part of our schedule and have fallen back significantly since.  See the numbers above against a more normal mix of teams over our last 10.

But I don't disagree with you that we have been better on defense during Nate's tenure.  We are a better team on both ends of the floor, IMO.  Just not a great defense.  Middle of the pack.  If/when, Cam and Hunter return we have the potential to take another step forward.

That was my only point which is Nate puts an emphasis on defense not that they were top 10.  LP had better defender when he coach and the defense was trash.  Nate has weaker defenders and the defense is better.  24th with Cam and Hunter for LP and 13th without Cam and Hunter with Nate.  Should not be this hard to make an obvious point

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That was my only point which is Nate puts an emphasis on defense not that they were top 10.  LP had better defender when he coach and the defense was trash.  Nate has weaker defenders and the defense is better.  24th with Cam and Hunter for LP and 13th without Cam and Hunter with Nate.  Should not be this hard to make an obvious point

Pretty sure the board is 100% of the same opinion comparing Nate and LP so not sure why we'd be comparing them.  Nate has shown himself to be an upgrade and the change in leadership has resulted in the team demonstrating significantly better focus on both ends of the floor.  Slowing down the pace has also likely resulted in better quality on both ends on a per possession basis.

I am talking about the current team so the notion that this was a top 10 defense was more interesting to me than comparing whether the team was better with Nate or LP.  That is a dead issue. 

On the live topic of how good our defense is right now, I doubt we are top 15 over our last 10 games; maybe not top 20 (all this by DRtg; other metrics may differ).  Will be interested to see how it continues.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

You are the only one still comparing Nate and LP.  I am talking about the current team so the notion that this was a top 10 defense was more interesting to me.

I doubt we are top 15 over our last 10.

What??  My statement was that Nate is more defensively oriented so therefore he might favor Cam over Bogi provided that Cam is not the total disaster he was under LP.  I'm assuming that Nate will use Cam better and not make hem a spot up 3 point shooter like LP did.  What does this have to do with the team being out of the top 10 in defense the last 10 game which included games without Cam, Hunter, Capela and now John?

[AHF]

  

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What??  My statement was that Nate is more defensively oriented so therefore he might favor Cam over Bogi provided that Cam is not the total disaster he was under LP.  I'm assuming that Nate will use Cam better and not make hem a spot up 3 point shooter like LP did.  What does this have to do with the team being out of the top 10 in defense the last 10 game which included games without Cam, Hunter, Capela and now John?

First, we weren't talking about Cam with this exchange.  Just how good the team's defense was right now.  For some reason when I pointed out we weren't top 10, you brought it back to LP who has nothing to do with this discussion.

Second, on the topic of Cam, I don't know that we'll even get a good chance to see him this year.  He is going to have less than 10 games remaining in the season if he returns on the 6 week timeline we were originally given.  Do you really think Nate is going to thrust him into the starting lineup in that time?  

Third, the reason I mention the last 10 games is because we played some absolute garbage teams early in Nate's tenure.  We weren't winning all those games under LP so winning those was very important.  But playing against garbage competition doesn't give you a good sense of how you stand against competitive teams.  Our last 10 games have been an upgrade in competition (even if a few are still D-League level opposition) and we have given up 111 per game over that time suggesting that we need our injured players back to become a top 10 defense (assuming we are capable of that this season).  JC and Capela were here when we gave up 108 to the Kings, 108 to the Warriors, 126 to the Nuggets, and 117 to the Suns.  I fully agree if you are suggesting that we need more talent (Hunter, Cam and Dunn would be huge for us) back to reach that upper third of the league on a consistent basis but what you said above is that we were a top 10 defense without them and that I don't agree with.

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

 I think we are now a top 10 in defense without Hunter and Reddish.

 

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

First, we weren't talking about Cam with this exchange.  Just how good the team's defense was right now.  For some reason when I pointed out we weren't top 10, you brought it back to LP who has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

The discussion that you brought up started in another thread.  You brought it over here for some reason

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

The discussion that you brought up started in another thread.  You brought it over here for some reason

This is what started our discussion on this thread, right now:

 

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Oh and lets not forget the emphasis on defense!  I think we are now a top 10 in defense without Hunter and Reddish.

That is from this page of this thread.

[h4wkfan]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is what started our discussion on this thread, right now:

 

That is from this page of this thread.

You won’t win this one.