Official Game Thread: Hawks at Who Cares, Really?

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, terrell said:

Its like he thinks we can go on a 27-11 run at some point like when he took over last season, which isnt happening...........Hawks get too far behind in the standings and it's play-in time.....

Besides who is he gonna bench him for? Lou/Delon playing like shit.

Nate isnt benching Trae after Travis Maxed him anyway..So....................................

When you pay a 6ft, inefficient, no defense playing, turnover prone, shoot first PG, that much $  you're asking for trouble imo....

 

He deserves the money for sure, especially if he has the ability to evolve into top 5 player come the playoffs. Trae is twice the player in the playoffs than he is in the regular season. Very similar to Reggie Miller and his personality and player style is as well. There are marathon hoppers like CP3, Ben Simmons, LaMelo, Jokic, Lowry, PG13, etc. There are sprint hoppers like Embiid, young Derrick Rose, Wade, Cole Anthony, Tyler Herro, etc. There are guys who do both sprint and Marathon like LeBron, Westbrook, Giannis, Fred VanFleet, JC, RJ Barrett, etc. Some guys excel and neither, most excel at one. 

Trae does excel at neither, he's a bored genius. This is the same as Reggie Miller. Its an extremely rare player type. It's hard to find because most players aren't genius and if they are, they usually fall into the 1st or 2nd box. Trae as well as Reggie highly value the RS and winning BAD and they are always trying to find ways to win by any means at all times but their mentality and discipline can lack during a marathon. They aren't exactly sprinters either although they are capable at times. When the playoffs come or a massive game. These two lock into assignments. They figured you out, its you that can't figure them out. Their impact just doubles in the playoffs. Their mentality is to put on a show and burn your city down or just put on a show in his own city. 

These types are rare but when locked in, they are capable of consistency where that's lacking in a marathon. The playoffs is a half court game but it's also an obstacle course like March Madness but its even harder than March Madness. The bored geniuses THRIVE OFF OF THIS. So as long as we have Trae, I am fine with him but i want him to be better in the regular season. It's just that simple. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by NBASupes

[terrell]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I don't get you. It's like you aren't hearing me clearly. I am not saying, he can't play the position. When I look for true PGs, I want to see you find guys spots, run the sets, make the game easier for others. Watch guys like Lowry, they run that shit effortlessly. Even LaMelo and Ja runs shit cleanly.

Trae plays Trae ball. He wants to get high value shots for others regardless if it's their shot or not. (Corner 3s or dunks) and mix his scoring ability. Watch Mike Bibby. I remember when he came, he asked everyone what's their spot on offense. He completely changed how we executed offensively. 

That's not Trae. What Trae does is an upgrade from Iverson ball but Iverson at least is a decent defender. I love Trae but man, he's what I been saying he is for awhile, a blend of Marbury mixed with Iverson with elite court vision and playmaking skills. 

In the playoffs, he's the rich man's Reggie Miller and that's a great thing but we gotta get there first. Like Miller, Trae is bored genius who needs a challenge. 

The biggest issue I see with Trae is he wants to he All NBA but instead of just playing the game to win, he wants numbers.

Ja is a monster...

[terrell]

9 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Stupid narrative. Enough with the doomsday crap dude. 

Until this team play defense consistently, this is likely going to be the end result. One of the biggest culprits on that side of ball is TRAE YOUNG.... It's funny to me when people on here laud him when he makes an occasional good defensive play, when that should already be the expectation. There is no reason why Trae can't become a pest on the perimeter. His lack of effort seeps into other players at times because they seemingly have to do so much to compensate for his laziness on defense.

[terrell]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He deserves the money for sure, especially if he has the ability to evolve into top 5 player come the playoffs. Trae is twice the player in the playoffs than he is in the regular season. Very similar to Reggie Miller and his personality and player style is as well. There are marathon hoppers like CP3, Ben Simmons, LaMelo, Jokic, Lowry, PG13, etc. There are sprint hoppers like Embiid, young Derrick Rose, Wade, Cole Anthony, Tyler Herro, etc. There are guys who do both sprint and Marathon like LeBron, Westbrook, Giannis, Fred VanFleet, JC, RJ Barrett, etc. Some guys excel and neither, most excel at one. 

Trae does excel at neither, he's a bored genius. This is the same as Reggie Miller. Its an extremely rare player type. It's hard to find because most players aren't genius and if they are, they usually fall into the 1st or 2nd box. Trae as well as Reggie highly value the RS and winning BAD and they are always trying to find ways to win by any means at all times but their mentality and discipline can lack during a marathon. They aren't exactly sprinters either although they are capable at times. When the playoffs come or a massive game. These two lock into assignments. They figured you out, its you that can't figure them out. Their impact just doubles in the playoffs. Their mentality is to put on a show and burn your city down or just put on a show in his own city. 

These types are rare but when locked in, they are capable of consistency where that's lacking in a marathon. The playoffs is a half court game but it's also an obstacle course like March Madness but its even harder than March Madness. The bored geniuses THRIVE OFF OF THIS. So as long as we have Trae, I am fine with him but i want him to be better in the regular season. It's just that simple. 

You have to get to the Playoffs 1st....And he wont be getting the calls in the Playoffs like last season anymore...

Also, he lost to Rhode Island in rd 1 of March Madness at Oklahoma....Because he went cold in the 2nd half...

And then there was that lazy turnover under the basket that led to back to back 3's.....

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by terrell

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, terrell said:

You have to get to the Playoffs 1st....And he wont be getting the calls in the Playoffs like last season anymore...

Also, he lost to Rhode Island in rd 1 of March Madness at Oklahoma....Because he went cold in the 2nd half...

And then there was that lazy turnover under the basket that led to back to back 3's.....

 

He wasn't getting calls which is why his efficiency dropped in the playoffs. 

Rhode Island was a better team than OU during that period.

[marco102]

Man. Y'all really go off the deep end after losses. We are still a young team. Young teams struggle on the road. So far, we are struggling on the road and good at home.  Nate is experimenting and building chemistry. Our guys were injured and he has to build it up by letting them play together, even through the rough patches. I expect, as we go on, we will see better rotations from him and mixing and matching more of the second unit with the first unit. I have no idea why Delon is third string right now though.

Trae Young is one of the best point guards playmakers at any point during the season, period.  He and the team just have to get that timing back. So far, it's like they are a half a count off with decision making. I expect a better effort from him on the defensive end though.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Man. Y'all really go off the deep end after losses. We are still a young team. Young teams struggle on the road. So far, we are struggling on the road and good at home.  Nate is experimenting and building chemistry. Our guys were injured and he has to build it up by letting them play together, even through the rough patches. I expect, as we go on, we will see better rotations from him and mixing and matching more of the second unit with the first unit. I have no idea why Delon is third string right now though.

Trae Young is one of the best point guards playmakers at any point during the season, period.  He and the team just have to get that timing back. So far, it's like they are a half a count off with decision making. I expect a better effort from him on the defensive end though.

I'm shocked we haven't seen the tradeTrae/startCoop thread yet.

As I said before, most of these doomsday posts are pre-written.  Just cut 'n pasted after losses.  I look at them as entertainment, not taken seriously. Honestly, I'm sure a lotta folks look at my posts that way.  The difference is I don't try to insult people's intelligence by pretending to be serious when I'm not.

[JeffS17]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I don't get you. It's like you aren't hearing me clearly. I am not saying, he can't play the position. When I look for true PGs, I want to see you find guys spots, run the sets, make the game easier for others. Watch guys like Lowry, they run that shit effortlessly. Even LaMelo and Ja runs shit cleanly.

Trae plays Trae ball. He wants to get high value shots for others regardless if it's their shot or not. (Corner 3s or dunks) and mix his scoring ability. Watch Mike Bibby. I remember when he came, he asked everyone what's their spot on offense. He completely changed how we executed offensively. 

That's not Trae. What Trae does is an upgrade from Iverson ball but Iverson at least is a decent defender. I love Trae but man, he's what I been saying he is for awhile, a blend of Marbury mixed with Iverson with elite court vision and playmaking skills. 

In the playoffs, he's the rich man's Reggie Miller and that's a great thing but we gotta get there first. Like Miller, Trae is bored genius who needs a challenge. 

The biggest issue I see with Trae is he wants to he All NBA but instead of just playing the game to win, he wants numbers.

I understand exactly what you're saying but Trae isn't bad at being a "true PG".  He's not memorizing other teams defenses and running the perfect play every half-court set, but he's O.K. at it and will get much better.  Also, all the things he's elite at (play-making, vision, etc.) are also a part of being a "true PG" so brushing those aside just to narrow in on something self-defined that you can call him bad at isn't reality.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I'm shocked we haven't seen the tradeTrae/startCoop thread yet.

As I said before, most of these doomsday posts are pre-written.  Just cut 'n pasted after losses.  I look at them as entertainment, not taken seriously. Honestly, I'm sure a lotta folks look at my posts that way.  The difference is I don't try to insult people's intelligence by pretending to be serious when I'm not.

Trae playoffs performance will keep the trade Trae talk to a minimum. He doubled his impact in the playoffs from a legit All Star starter/ all NBA guard on offense with the WOAT defense to a machine on offense who's still the all NBA on offense to a net neutral defender. 

That Reggie Miller like ascension will always earn him respect in Atlanta. 

That said, this is why he wasn't voted to the all star team last year and why he's probably not going to be this year unless he's voted in which is possible as Trae is a brand now.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I understand exactly what you're saying but Trae isn't bad at being a "true PG".  He's not memorizing other teams defenses and running the perfect play every half-court set, but he's O.K. at it and will get much better.  Also, all the things he's elite at (play-making, vision, etc.) are also a part of being a "true PG" so brushing those aside just to narrow in on something self-defined that you can call him bad at isn't reality.

Yes he is. 

Does he run an offense to get guys their best shots?

Does he adapt well in the RS to what the defense is doing to create for others or does he do it when he feels like it?

Does he even know what is the best shots for his guys like a CP3, Nash, Lowry, or Bibby?

Trae is an once in a generation playmaker and scorer but he's not a true PG. He's not even close to guys like Melo Ball at it. He's barely better at it than Sexton. A personally think Rife is our best true PG on the roster and it's not even close. Rife ran our sets against Memphis in the preseason. Now that said, Rife hasn't ran shit all regular season for us in garbage time. They just been freelancing and he looks like shit for it. Rife unlike Trae has to run the offense and play like a true PG. His pathway to success is John Stockton. He has to be a true PG to become great. 

Trae don't have to and don't need to as he's already great. 

He's not even ok at it. Okay at it Dinwiddie or VanVleet. Below average at it is SGA or Dejounte Murray. Trae like Cole Anthony and Collin Sexton is bad at it. He's one of the worst in the NBA at running an offense. Now he's great at managing pace and tempo but that's not a true PG skill. That's a Basketball skill. 

 

He's great at Basketball. Not at PGing. People confuse being a world class playmaker with being a true PG because so many are but Trae isn't. That's why I always mention Iverson and Marbury. Marbury like Trae was also great at controlling pace and tempo. Marbury just has a shit player type. He's selfish and inconsiderate which is funny because the reason he was a hit in China is he did the opposite which tells me feeling wanted is critical for Marbury which makes sense as he was loved and had his best success at Georgia Tech. 

 

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae playoffs performance will keep the trade Trae talk to a minimum. He doubled his impact in the playoffs from a legit All Star starter/ all NBA guard on offense with the WOAT defense to a machine on offense who's still the all NBA on offense to a net neutral defender. 

That Reggie Miller like ascension will always earn him respect in Atlanta. 

That said, this is why he wasn't voted to the all star team last year and why he's probably not going to be this year unless he's voted in which is possible as Trae is a brand now.

No, I wasn't even saying that as a serious thing.  I think the same folks we see doomsday-ing will start the irrational trade nonsense soon.

Actually agree on the all-star stuff.  There's a serious anti-Trae sentiment among NBA folk, likely including coaches.  People's jump to support these "new" rules is a bit of evidence of that.

I kinda don't like the connection to Reggie Miller though, although I do understand what you're saying.  Trae is more comparable to Isaiah Thomas for me.  Not game-wise, but they share some anti-establishment-ness in that they aren't largely accepted by the masses and have to earn it through winning.

Guys who have been 'accepted' don't have to win to get accolades/respect.  Morant, SGA, Fox, Ball (CHA) and more.  Get the benefit of the doubt based on absolutely nothing tangible.  I'm not saying they can't win or won't.  I'm saying they weren't and aren't discounted the way Trae was pre-winning.  No one can explain why other than bias.

[Final_quest]

Positives from this game are Dre and K'von waking up.  Hunter was on fire.  Not sure he's ever shot like that in a Hawks game.  

One thing that has surprised me this year is "bad Trae" making more appearances than I'd like to see.  After watching him in the playoffs it felt like he had arrived as legit superstar who was gonna take names every night.  Still seeing crazy foul calls missed or times where he gets a foul called while shooting and they don't give free throws.  

Chemistry continues to be a big problem and players still not in mid-season form.  Collins is getting the award for most consistent performer so far, after that it's Russian roulette.  No clear go to winning formula for our offensive identity.  Additionally Wing Stop isn't hardly discussed anymore.  It's like a forgotten sentiment.   

We have the talent to play a lot better.  Nate has got to figure this out, but I will give him time.  

[shakes]

57 minutes ago, terrell said:

 

Also, he lost to Rhode Island in rd 1 of March Madness at Oklahoma....Because he went cold in the 2nd half...

 

 

What are you talking about?  He lost to Rhode Island because he was the only person on his team who could play basketball and hit a shot in the final 8 minutes of the game.   He literally scored every single basket OU scored in the final 8 minutes of regulation, all 11 of them.   And then he scored or assisted on 6 of the 9 points scored in OT.

 

 

[shakes]

I'll remember this game as the game we were right in it and then Cam decided to trade shot for shot with Kevin Durant.

 

I'll also remember this as the game we lost because we decided to give the best 3pt shooter in the NBA SEVERAL wide open uncontested corner 3s.

 

Seriously, our team defense is atrocious.  Not just Trae, but literally every single player on the team.  none of them know how to play team defense.  We have some good individual defenders, but that's about it.    Doris Burke pointed it out on one play where we had 4 defenders standing all alone in the paint, teh ball goes to Harris all along in the corner and everyone in the paint just points at Harris asking each other to go out there and guard him.  Pathetic effort from the whole team.   

 

This team is hot garbage now.  I fully expect us to be in last place by Thanksgiving if not sooner.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

No, I wasn't even saying that as a serious thing.  I think the same folks we see doomsday-ing will start the irrational trade nonsense soon.

Actually agree on the all-star stuff.  There's a serious anti-Trae sentiment among NBA folk, likely including coaches.  People's jump to support these "new" rules is a bit of evidence of that.

I kinda don't like the connection to Reggie Miller though, although I do understand what you're saying.  Trae is more comparable to Isaiah Thomas for me.  Not game-wise, but they share some anti-establishment-ness in that they aren't largely accepted by the masses and have to earn it through winning.

Guys who have been 'accepted' don't have to win to get accolades/respect.  Morant, SGA, Fox, Ball (CHA) and more.  Get the benefit of the doubt based on absolutely nothing tangible.  I'm not saying they can't win or won't.  I'm saying they weren't and aren't discounted the way Trae was pre-winning.  No one can explain why other than bias.

Possibly, Trae is hard on the eyes when he doesn't get what he wants. 

He baits for fouls, doesn't run your offense for shit even if he's capable, YOLOs more than most, takes a lot of shit shots and makes some awful decisions with rock and makes a ton of defensive mistakes while offering little to no resistance on that end. He doesn't play a game that coaches enjoy to watch. 

Why not? It's based on impact and player type from a mental stance. It's not based on how both players play and how they there's. 

IT0 overcame massive odds. He was a 6th man type who people thought might not be a good 6th man to start his career. He developed his off ball skills and Boston put him in position as a #1 option and he excelled in that role till injuries got him. I don't see how their odds are similar. The establishment cheered for IT0. The players still rebel for him. That's not the sentiments that Trae is getting outside of his own teammates. Trae is beloved but he's disliked. Not the same energy. Trae might be the most skilled player to ever play this game. He's the best half court player I've ever seen. Trae is an once in a generation offensive talent. That's nothing like IT0. CP3 said as much. 

They play a consistent RS game. Ja runs his offense and he's capable on or off the ball. Ball is probably the best open court PG we have seen since Magic. SGA isn't a true PG but he's one or the most versatile offensive guards in the NBA. Fox is a speed demon who puts so much pressure on a defense with his pace and feel for the game. He runs an offense at an average level and if he wants to get to the next level, being more of a PG who excels running the offense which will be critical for him. I wouldn't say any ot them get love without merit including Trae. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

There are some sets I question why we don't run more often. JC is just sick with that low post turning either into a fadeaway that no one can guard or just keep pushing back into his man to get a hook or a flip shot around the rim. We do not run this play enough. It is like when we had Horford and there were certain shots and plays Horford was just flat out money on and we never ran it enough. 

The rim running seems to either be ran for two plays in a row or just forgotten about for 10 minutes at a stretch. We have way too many guys pulling up six seconds into a possession and shooting threes. Need more off the ball movement and cutting. Almost every time we have a guy moving off the ball and gets it around the basket we either get a made basket or a foul. Why is this not run more?

I want to see more of us running what our team is versus this bizarre "hey, I need to shoot a three" mentality we seem to get stuck in for like three minute stretches in games. 

 

Shooting a 3 isn't a bad thing.  It's the 3s that we take that are not in rhythm, that are bad.

When you have to create space to shoot your 3, that's not in rhythm.  That's why I've grown to be a bigger fan of the Trae Young 35 foot 3 pointer, than the Trae Young "let me cross you over to get my shot off" 3 pointer.  He's in perfect rhythm most of the time, when he shoots the bomb.

The same goes for Cam.  When he has his feet set and his body squared up, he's knocking down shots.  When he's taking Tracy McGrady type shots, that's when he misses.

Dre did a wonderful job taking 3s when he was completely squared up to the basket.  No juking or jiving needed.

Bogi is forcing a lot of shots these days, just for the sake of shooting, in my opinion.  But when he's open with the catch and shoot, he's money.

It's obvious that something has happened to the offense.  And with us having the same players, I have to put the bulk of the blame on the coach.

Then again, with Trae's FTs down, that's a big reason why the offense isn't clicking as much.  His ability to draw fouls put us in the bonus, and gave us free points toward the end of quarters.  Outside of the last Washington game, we're not getting that any more.

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

There are some sets I question why we don't run more often. JC is just sick with that low post turning either into a fadeaway that no one can guard or just keep pushing back into his man to get a hook or a flip shot around the rim. We do not run this play enough. It is like when we had Horford and there were certain shots and plays Horford was just flat out money on and we never ran it enough. 

The rim running seems to either be ran for two plays in a row or just forgotten about for 10 minutes at a stretch. We have way too many guys pulling up six seconds into a possession and shooting threes. Need more off the ball movement and cutting. Almost every time we have a guy moving off the ball and gets it around the basket we either get a made basket or a foul. Why is this not run more?

I want to see more of us running what our team is versus this bizarre "hey, I need to shoot a three" mentality we seem to get stuck in for like three minute stretches in games. 

 

Shooting a 3 isn't a bad thing.  It's the 3s that we take that are not in rhythm, that are bad.

When you have to create space to shoot your 3, that's not in rhythm.  That's why I've grown to be a bigger fan of the Trae Young 35 foot 3 pointer, than the Trae Young "let me cross you over to get my shot off" 3 pointer.  He's in perfect rhythm most of the time, when he shoots the bomb.

The same goes for Cam.  When he has his feet set and his body squared up, he's knocking down shots.  When he's taking Tracy McGrady type shots, that's when he misses.

Dre did a wonderful job taking 3s when he was completely squared up to the basket.  No juking or jiving needed.

Bogi is forcing a lot of shots these days, just for the sake of shooting, in my opinion.  But when he's open with the catch and shoot, he's money.

It's obvious that something has happened to the offense.  And with us having the same players, I have to put the bulk of the blame on the coach.

Then again, with Trae's FTs down, that's a big reason why the offense isn't clicking as much.  His ability to draw fouls put us in the bonus, and gave us free points toward the end of quarters.  Outside of the last Washington game, we're not getting that any more.

[macdaddy]

I just don't understand what people have against the Nets.   Even without Kyrie they are the team to beat.    You got two guys who are walking buckets plus a bunch of good vets and 3 point shooters.   We did what we could but if Bogi, Cam, Gallo, and Lou are going to suck then it'll be a struggle.   Trae missed a ton of shots too but other than Hunter the rest of the starters were sucking.   10 assists but should have been a lot more.  

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Shooting a 3 isn't a bad thing.  It's the 3s that we take that are not in rhythm, that are bad.

When you have to create space to shoot your 3, that's not in rhythm.  That's why I've grown to be a bigger fan of the Trae Young 35 foot 3 pointer, than the Trae Young "let me cross you over to get my shot off" 3 pointer.  He's in perfect rhythm most of the time, when he shoots the bomb.

The same goes for Cam.  When he has his feet set and his body squared up, he's knocking down shots.  When he's taking Tracy McGrady type shots, that's when he misses.

Dre did a wonderful job taking 3s when he was completely squared up to the basket.  No juking or jiving needed.

Bogi is forcing a lot of shots these days, just for the sake of shooting, in my opinion.  But when he's open with the catch and shoot, he's money.

It's obvious that something has happened to the offense.  And with us having the same players, I have to put the bulk of the blame on the coach.

Then again, with Trae's FTs down, that's a big reason why the offense isn't clicking as much.  His ability to draw fouls put us in the bonus, and gave us free points toward the end of quarters.  Outside of the last Washington game, we're not getting that any more.

The lack of FT clearly hurts our RS offense but I notice Trae starts his PnRs at the 3 point line. He used to start them at the logo. This pretty much has taken away Trae 35 footers he was good for 3 times a game but its kills him because he can't get his 3s off due to the NBA defense and his set shot unless he's open for C&S and how many times does he get those or even if he's open. Very slim. Nate did this because this causes less turnovers and it puts more pressure on the defense but sometimes the defense is too physical and we need Trae to start our offense at the logo especially if the refs aren't calling as much. Nate is a traditionalist. LP was a modernist. Nate was best when he mixed the two. We have a modern personnel. We can't win playing traditional but we are too dumb to win modern as well. We gotta blend the two. We just trying to find the right mix. 

[NBASupes]

We gotta start using Trae like he's Trae. He's a genius. Stop using him like he's John Stockton or CP3. He not traditional at all, let's stop using him as this.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

We gotta start using Trae like he's Trae. He's a genius. Stop using him like he's John Stockton or CP3. He not traditional at all, let's stop using him as this.

I agree and I don't know if this is what you mean but all the calls for more Trae off the ball make no sense to me.   If he's on the court i want the ball in his hands.