CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[Spud2nique]

I have a question here.

I keep wanting Pop from the Spurs to take a chance on a Ben Simmons or Cam and just take them under his wings like with Duncan, Kawhi etc. The Spurs never make a move. Is that Pop not believing he can transform those players into efficient ones or what? You can’t tell me Pop doesn’t like Cam’s on court attributes. He is easily a 5 tool to baseball basketball player.

I mean the Spurs drafting Dejounte and he didn’t have the skills he has today and that HAS to be coaching, well Pop or assistants, they develop players.

If he can do it with Dejounte, why can’t he get in on Cam? Or better yet why won’t he? 
 

Pop always has homegrown chit.

[AHF]

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I have a question here.

I keep wanting Pop from the Spurs to take a chance on a Ben Simmons or Cam and just take them under his wings like with Duncan, Kawhi etc. The Spurs never make a move. Is that Pop not believing he can transform those players into efficient ones or what? You can’t tell me Pop doesn’t like Cam’s on court attributes. He is easily a 5 tool to baseball basketball player.

I mean the Spurs drafting Dejounte and he didn’t have the skills he has today and that HAS to be coaching, well Pop or assistants, they develop players.

If he can do it with Dejounte, why can’t he get in on Cam? Or better yet why won’t he? 
 

Pop always has homegrown chit.

With Ben Simmons, I can see Pop not wanting to touch his ego but likely also about price.  SA doesn't have a former MVP to trade so tough to see them putting together anything that would have convinced Morey to forego James Harden.  I just don't see SA being in the conversation on Simmons even if SA was interested.

Cam they could have but a guy wanting a featured role on his team before he has earned it is kind of anti-thetical to what I see from Pops.  I envision him feeding guys in limited roles and building on their on-court success to earn more minutes.  Cam started 55 of his 94 games his first two seasons in Atlanta and was apparently asking for a trade so he could have a bigger role during the following offseason despite having largely struggled those first two seasons (especially on offense with 38.4% and 36.5% FG% numbers his first two seasons).  I guess I see Pops wanting to trade for a guy who is hungry and will embrace whatever the coach asks of him even if it is in a limited role.  I have a hard time seeing Pops looking to start him over Kelden Johnson, Derrick White or Dejounte Murray coming into the season and Devin Vassell is the young wing they are developing (who came off the bench before his strong play earned him starts).  I would have been pretty psyched had we traded Cam for Vassell.

[shakes]

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I have a question here.

I keep wanting Pop from the Spurs to take a chance on a Ben Simmons or Cam and just take them under his wings like with Duncan, Kawhi etc. The Spurs never make a move. Is that Pop not believing he can transform those players into efficient ones or what? You can’t tell me Pop doesn’t like Cam’s on court attributes. He is easily a 5 tool to baseball basketball player.

I mean the Spurs drafting Dejounte and he didn’t have the skills he has today and that HAS to be coaching, well Pop or assistants, they develop players.

If he can do it with Dejounte, why can’t he get in on Cam? Or better yet why won’t he? 
 

Pop always has homegrown chit.

Pop is a douchebag.

[Spud2nique]

48 minutes ago, shakes said:

Pop is a douchebag.

 

[Diesel]

16 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I have a question here.

I keep wanting Pop from the Spurs to take a chance on a Ben Simmons or Cam and just take them under his wings like with Duncan, Kawhi etc. The Spurs never make a move. Is that Pop not believing he can transform those players into efficient ones or what? You can’t tell me Pop doesn’t like Cam’s on court attributes. He is easily a 5 tool to baseball basketball player.

I mean the Spurs drafting Dejounte and he didn’t have the skills he has today and that HAS to be coaching, well Pop or assistants, they develop players.

If he can do it with Dejounte, why can’t he get in on Cam? Or better yet why won’t he? 
 

Pop always has homegrown chit.

Did you ever take into consideration the personalities that Pop worked with?

He worked with people who wanted to be worked with.   i.e. People who didn't fight against Changing.  Simmons has been horrible at shooting since college.  I'm sure that Philly tried some type of intervention and it just didn't work.   Cam is the same player we drafted.  He has what I call Faux Humility.   i.e. he will act like he's onboard as long as it leads to what he wants.   That's why he was wildly inconsistent.   He never went all out when Trae was on the court because he wanted to be the main draw.  When Trae was off the court, he had his best games... you saw him playing defense. You saw him running up the floor with purpose.

Pop doesn't want either of them.  He'd probably retire first. 

[Spud2nique]

Thank you guys on the Pop feedback. Worked great for the article! 
 

https://www.espn.com/nba/

[Gray Mule]

Cam Reddish out for the remainder of this season - injured.  

Kevin Knox nailed to the bench - permanently.

Hawks don't allow draft picks on the floor.

End of story....

[Final_quest]

17 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Cam Reddish out for the remainder of this season - injured.  

Kevin Knox nailed to the bench - permanently.

Hawks don't allow draft picks on the floor.

End of story....

We’ve played our rookies over the years.  Here’s a list of rookies that got PT::

Collins, Trae, Huerter, Cam, Hunter, Nathan Knight, Bruno, OO

 The difference is we also added a bunch of vets to our roster: Capela, Bogi, Gallo, and Wright.  Those signings plus our picks from the past five years are keeping our rookies on the bench.  
 

We shifted from a building team to a veteran team. 

[Gray Mule]

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

We’ve played our rookies over the years.  Here’s a list of rookies that got PT::

Collins, Trae, Huerter, Cam, Hunter, Nathan Knight, Bruno, OO

 The difference is we also added a bunch of vets to our roster: Capela, Bogi, Gallo, and Wright.  Those signings plus our picks from the past five years are keeping our rookies on the bench.  
 

We shifted from a building team to a veteran team. 

Only OO was a rookie under Nate and he played limited minutes.  Earlier in the Covid season when we were so short handed, we chose to play 10 day contracts instead of our rookies.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

25 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Only OO was a rookie under Nate and he played limited minutes.  Earlier in the Covid season when we were so short handed, we chose to play 10 day contracts instead of our rookies.

Exactly. Nate is not in a good light in that regard. You're telling everyone you think those 10 day contract is better? Not in the long term or short term imo

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Only OO was a rookie under Nate and he played limited minutes.  Earlier in the Covid season when we were so short handed, we chose to play 10 day contracts instead of our rookies.

 

6 minutes ago, Dexmethylphenidate said:

Exactly. Nate is not in a good light in that regard. You're telling everyone you think those 10 day contract is better? Not in the long term or short term imo

IIRC. Both Johnson and Cooper were also in COVID protocols when the NBA guys were also out, which was unfortunate for them.

[Final_quest]

24 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Only OO was a rookie under Nate and he played limited minutes.  Earlier in the Covid season when we were so short handed, we chose to play 10 day contracts instead of our rookies.

Nate has only been our coach for a little over a year.  There's not enough history to make that judgement. 

Also, the rookies went into Covid protocol around the same time as our rotation players.  They would have played more otherwise.  This is revisionist history.  There weren't any games that we played 10 day contract players and the rookies got DNPCDs.  

[Gray Mule]

20 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Nate has only been our coach for a little over a year.  There's not enough history to make that judgement. 

Also, the rookies went into Covid protocol around the same time as our rotation players.  They would have played more otherwise.  This is revisionist history.  There weren't any games that we played 10 day contract players and the rookies got DNPCDs.  

OK.  Let's just say that they haven't played meaningful minutes all season.  Can we agree on this?

[Final_quest]

28 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

OK.  Let's just say that they haven't played meaningful minutes all season.  Can we agree on this?

Agreed on that!  I really think they have been desperate for wins and not willing to risk PT on rookies.  Especially rookies that didn't even play a full year in college.  We started the season 4-9.  There hasn't been a cushion all year for us to experiment with our draft picks. 

Additionally the chemistry issues when our rotation players are constantly coming back from injury adds to the mix.  How do we incorporate the rookies and keep good team chemistry?

I don't blame Nate for their lack of minutes.  

[JayBirdHawk]

The Most Regrettable NBA Trades of the Last 3 Seasons

4. Knicks Give Up a 1st-round Pick to Not Play Cam Reddish

 

Trade Details: Atlanta Hawks trade Cam Reddish, Solomon Hill and a 2025 second-round pick (via Brooklyn Nets) to the New York Knicks for 2022 first-round pick (top-18-protected via Charlotte Hornets) and Kevin Knox

This trade didn't seem that bad at the time, as Reddish started off his third season in Atlanta by averaging 11.9 points, 2.5 rebounds and 1.0 steals and shooting 37.9 percent from three in just 23.4 minutes a night. He was mostly a reserve, as the No. 10 overall pick in the 2019 draft just couldn't carve out a starting job on a Hawks team featuring plenty of wings.

Going to New York represented a chance at greater playing time, an opportunity for the then-22-year-old to flash his massive two-way potential next to former college teammate RJ Barrett.

Head coach Tom Thibodeau didn't get the memo, however, as Reddish saw his playing time slashed to just 14.3 minutes per game. His stats plummeted to just 6.1 points, 1.4 rebounds and 0.8 steals, with an inconsistent role causing his three-point accuracy to dip to 25.8 percent. Veteran forward Evan Fournier continued to start over Reddish, despite making the Knicks 3.8 points per 100 possessions worse when he was on the floor (30th percentile, per Cleaning the Glass).

The Knicks could have used that extra first-rounder in a trade offer to acquire a certain shooting guard from the Utah Jazz, one they ultimately whiffed on.

Atlanta, on the other hand, only had to send two of its own first-round picks to the San Antonio Spurs in a deal for Dejounte Murray, including the pick acquired from the Knicks for Reddish as part of the trade. San Antonio now owns the selection, one that's top-16-protected in 2023, top-14-protected in 2024 and 2025 or will at least turn into two second-round selections in 2026 and 2027.

The Knicks could still save face if they move (or at least bench) Fournier and open up a larger role for Reddish. As is, giving up a first-round pick for a part-time rotation player about to enter free agency next summer was a huge mistake.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048802-the-most-regrettable-nba-trades-of-the-last-3-seasons

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The Most Regrettable NBA Trades of the Last 3 Seasons

4. Knicks Give Up a 1st-round Pick to Not Play Cam Reddish

 

Trade Details: Atlanta Hawks trade Cam Reddish, Solomon Hill and a 2025 second-round pick (via Brooklyn Nets) to the New York Knicks for 2022 first-round pick (top-18-protected via Charlotte Hornets) and Kevin Knox

This trade didn't seem that bad at the time, as Reddish started off his third season in Atlanta by averaging 11.9 points, 2.5 rebounds and 1.0 steals and shooting 37.9 percent from three in just 23.4 minutes a night. He was mostly a reserve, as the No. 10 overall pick in the 2019 draft just couldn't carve out a starting job on a Hawks team featuring plenty of wings.

Going to New York represented a chance at greater playing time, an opportunity for the then-22-year-old to flash his massive two-way potential next to former college teammate RJ Barrett.

Head coach Tom Thibodeau didn't get the memo, however, as Reddish saw his playing time slashed to just 14.3 minutes per game. His stats plummeted to just 6.1 points, 1.4 rebounds and 0.8 steals, with an inconsistent role causing his three-point accuracy to dip to 25.8 percent. Veteran forward Evan Fournier continued to start over Reddish, despite making the Knicks 3.8 points per 100 possessions worse when he was on the floor (30th percentile, per Cleaning the Glass).

The Knicks could have used that extra first-rounder in a trade offer to acquire a certain shooting guard from the Utah Jazz, one they ultimately whiffed on.

Atlanta, on the other hand, only had to send two of its own first-round picks to the San Antonio Spurs in a deal for Dejounte Murray, including the pick acquired from the Knicks for Reddish as part of the trade. San Antonio now owns the selection, one that's top-16-protected in 2023, top-14-protected in 2024 and 2025 or will at least turn into two second-round selections in 2026 and 2027.

The Knicks could still save face if they move (or at least bench) Fournier and open up a larger role for Reddish. As is, giving up a first-round pick for a part-time rotation player about to enter free agency next summer was a huge mistake.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048802-the-most-regrettable-nba-trades-of-the-last-3-seasons

Remember how the board trashed Schlenk for this trade? it was actually a great trade.

[AHF]

6 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Remember how the board trashed Schlenk for this trade? it was actually a great trade.

Those who trashed Schlenk fr the trade are the ones who praised him for the draft pick.  Those who savaged Schlenk for the pick praises him for the trade.  Depended on whether you viewed him as Boris Diaw (good player who would blossom after leaving Atlanta in a big trade win for our opponent) or Adreain Payne (bad pick who was so bad after leaving Atlanta that he made the trade to unload him look great).  So far, he is more closely resembling Payne.

[sturt]

Those who trashed Schlenk for the trade trashed w/o knowing that Cam had asked for the trade.

Many if not most of those, imo, would not have trashed him for the trade had they had that intel at the time.

 

As for evaluating the trade, it's been a little too easy for some to ignore that Cam's development has been severely stunted for the last two (of 3) seasons he's played. Since he got hurt in late Feb 2021, Cam's played in just 53 of 140 possible games... about 38%.

There's no way to assess what would have happened of course, had the NYK trade not happened. There's not even a way at the moment to assess what will happen now that we've essentially used the NYK/CHO draft pick to obtain Murray.

 

Pardon me while I live here in the real world, and maintain my patience in not assuming I know things I can't know... and... while I encourage others to resist presumption, and join me here in the real world.

[shakes]

12 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Remember how the board trashed Schlenk for this trade? it was actually a great trade.

I didn't trash it.  I've always known Cam was complete garbage.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Pardon me while I live here in the real world, and maintain my patience in not assuming I know things I can't know... and... while I encourage others to resist presumption, and join me here in the real world.

It's gonna be fun watching you shoveling back the ocean with that tiny spoon, stu.

(i.e. watching you ask folks to be realistic and rational on the interwebs.  Dang, it's not funny anymore if i have to explain the joke.)