Official Game Thread: Pelicans at Hawks

[benhillboy]

I was initially shocked to realize Gallo has the 8th highest career offensive rating for active players.  Then I thought about his FT shooting and how he abuses favorable matchups pretty regularly around the paint and I felt it.  He was injured all the damn time but I would’ve enjoyed seeing him nightly with some athleticism in his prime.

[Gray Mule]

Missed the 1st half (church) and found the Hawks down by 10.  As I watched in the 2nd half, Atlanta couldn't stop the big boy inside and the great little PG who scored at will.  This young man was undrafted?  And, he buried us!  Unbelieveable!

Nate:  I stuck to my plan.  Nine man rotation.  No one is going to tell me to let that hot shot G League rookie in the game.  He can score, rebound and pass?  So what.  I don't intend to use him.  Just because our opponent ran away and hid in the 1st quarter and we could never overcome this, I kept him securely nailed to the pine.  He's not coming in any game and messing up my plans.

When our shots refuse to go in and we lose the rebounding part of the game there is no hope.  Last night is a great example.  Note:  Our face sure is red.  Trae was out.  Hawks win!  Trae is back.  Everyone relaxes and the entire team is buried in the 1st quarter.  Sleepwalk!  After all, must not break that .500 barrier.

Whew!  Great to know!  Jalen Johnson's play last night did not cost Atlanta the game !!

 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

OO played 32 minutes and had 4 rebounds...

...did I miss something?  I keep seeing 17 minutes.

[Gray Mule]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...did I miss something?  I keep seeing 17 minutes.

Box score (ESPN) agrees with you.  It shows 17 minutes.  Limited minutes, Nate.

[kg01]

As you gaze upon Jose Baller-ado and how impactful he is .......

..... just keep in mind the Hawks could've had him at any time ........

..... and, even if they did have him, .....

....... he'd be rotting away in College Park, so it wouldn'tve made any dayum difference anyways.

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, terrell said:

They'll at least want JC or OO too.... Aint Nobody trading for just Bogi and Kev.. lol

Well, George is going to be 32.. Coming off of a major injury...  and has a contract that is huge...    They were about to trade him for CJ McCollum (rumor) at the deadline.   I think at this point, especially if they make the playoffs without him, they would be open to the deal that I laid out.   I mean, I could offer JC/Kev and a 1st...  but that's a lot. 

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Trade tawk here.. Trade tawk there.

My thoughts on the game...

1.   Too many piss poor turnovers in the 1st quarter... this is where Trae eats the blame.   The one thing that this team (PELs) have is athleticism.   They kept hands in the lane and they ran down ball handlers. 

The notion that Trae should start the game trying to get everybody else involved first, then gradually find his offense later, is flawed.  We win games when Trae is putting up a big number of points, not when this team has balance offensively.  So the mindset should be the opposite.  Let's see if we can get Trae going first. if he gets going, that draws attention to him, which should open it up for everybody else later.

 

2.   Great Game Plan... Crowd the lane with Bigs and force OR..  They outrebounded us 54 to 40.. There's your ball game right there.  Don't blame Clint.  Clint can't handle Valencuinas and Hermanangez or Hayes.  They were bigger than us and they played Bigger than us... and when OO came in, he got the same treatment that Clint got.  It was actually worse for OO because they moved him out of position. 

OO played 32 minutes and had 4 rebounds...

The reason we couldn't sustain a comeback is because they would out rebound us...

This is where we ask our wings and other bigs to help on the boards.  Oh, I forgot . . we don't play bigs.  We use Hunter as our 4th big in the rotation.  Okongwu plays big, but he's only 6 - 8.  In a game like this, maybe tossing in Dieng ( 6-10 . . 250 lbs ) for a few spot minutes, just to put another big body into the game, may have neutralized the size of Valanciunas ( 6-11 . . 265 lbs ) and Hernangomez ( 6-11 . . 250 lbs ).

 

3.  Too many bad three point shots.   Kev.. Just because you're open doesn't mean that you should shoot it.  Kev's shooting stunk up the place but worse was his decisions to shoot it.   I don't know what it is but Kev has to stop being afraid to go in. 

That's your game people.  Before the game, I was asking myself.. do we need a true 7 footer... Well... It couldn't hurt. 

 

Kevin has to take wide open 3s. Nate just mentioned the last game that guys can't pass up open shots.  What I WILL say, is that you're right . . if you're cold from 3, the best way to get yourself going is to take the ball to the basket or get fouled and get to the FT line.

But Kev has to take those open 3 point shots AND make them.

1.   Too many piss poor turnovers in the 1st quarter... this is where Trae eats the blame.   The one thing that this team (PELs) have is athleticism.   They kept hands in the lane and they ran down ball handlers. 

The notion that Trae should start the game trying to get everybody else involved first, then gradually find his offense later, is flawed.  We win games when Trae is putting up a big number of points, not when this team has balance offensively.  So the mindset should be the opposite.  Let's see if we can get Trae going first. if he gets going, that draws attention to him, which should open it up for everybody else later.

I don't think that is either here or there.  It depends on the matchup.   You can't praise the team's play without Trae i.e. ball movement, everybody gets their shot.. and then say When Trae is in the game, he has to look for his shot.  You lead to that same argument that Supes make when you do that.   I think you actually have to coach right here.  The main problem is that now everybody is looking for the PNR.   Trae did try to establish a new wrinkle to our PNR and that was the kick out to the open shooter (wing).  It worked for our first score.  N.O. was set up to stop the PNR and we kicked it out to Dre and he nailed the three point shot.   Later, we would try it but hands in traffic and even later...  Kev misses.   So I don't fault us for trying to expand our playbook.. that's what you're supposed to do ramping up to the playoffs. 

 

2.   Great Game Plan... Crowd the lane with Bigs and force OR..  They outrebounded us 54 to 40.. There's your ball game right there.  Don't blame Clint.  Clint can't handle Valencuinas and Hermanangez or Hayes.  They were bigger than us and they played Bigger than us... and when OO came in, he got the same treatment that Clint got.  It was actually worse for OO because they moved him out of position. 

OO played 32 minutes and had 4 rebounds...

The reason we couldn't sustain a comeback is because they would out rebound us...

This is where we ask our wings and other bigs to help on the boards.  Oh, I forgot . . we don't play bigs.  We use Hunter as our 4th big in the rotation.  Okongwu plays big, but he's only 6 - 8.  In a game like this, maybe tossing in Dieng ( 6-10 . . 250 lbs ) for a few spot minutes, just to put another big body into the game, may have neutralized the size of Valanciunas ( 6-11 . . 265 lbs ) and Hernangomez ( 6-11 . . 250 lbs ).

 We needed more size.  Maybe a Clint/OO/Gallo Front court.   Yes.  we needed that.   However, we need a guy who is a dog on the boards.   This is where we miss JC.  JC will get in there and fight for rebounds.   Gallo at the 4 is not going to fight.  If this was a series, next game, Nate would counter with a lineup of Clint/OO/Gallo/Bogi/Trae...  and that should stop the abuse on the boards some...  But we still would have to play somebody else off the bench... this gets to the problem..

We have not looked at JJ.  It could be that JJ is that dog on the boards.. We don't know.  What we do know is that our wings aren't worth a damn for rebounding. 

3.  Too many bad three point shots.   Kev.. Just because you're open doesn't mean that you should shoot it.  Kev's shooting stunk up the place but worse was his decisions to shoot it.   I don't know what it is but Kev has to stop being afraid to go in. 

That's your game people.  Before the game, I was asking myself.. do we need a true 7 footer... Well... It couldn't hurt. 

 

Kevin has to take wide open 3s. Nate just mentioned the last game that guys can't pass up open shots.  What I WILL say, is that you're right . . if you're cold from 3, the best way to get yourself going is to take the ball to the basket or get fouled and get to the FT line.

But Kev has to take those open 3 point shots AND make them.

What we pay Kev to do is score.   If he has missed 2 3pters, default should be to try and drive.  I have harped on Kev all year about his fear of going inside.  It may stem from him being crushed by Jokic.  Idk... but when your three ball is not falling, you need to see the ball go into the hoop.   There is usually so much space between Kev and the defender that if he started a drive towards the basket, they will have to foul or let him have it...  We can't win if Kev is going to be shell shocked. 

[Diesel]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...did I miss something?  I keep seeing 17 minutes.

You're right.. I was look at BB's stats..

OO played 17 minutes and 3 rebs...  Still horrid.  I saw Jaxson Hayes get 3 rebs on one play.

 

[Dnice]

Pissed as I am, I guess hey were due for a home loss, but they've been ass  on the road.

[terrell]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

None of those guys would fit at 17. Johnson too small to play with Trae, he's best as a small ball 4, Thybulle is proving with Harden he isn't a fit in a heliocentric offense, Poole is too bad defensively to have a shot at playing any mins with Trae. I did like Hayes and tonight is showing why he got a chance to be something in time in this league. I still hate the Cam trade but it would have never worked if Cam's goals is to be an All Star type. 

Im just sayin.... Their were good players available at 17, if we wanted Hayes at 8. Brandon Clarke fits as a lob threat and defender I guess. Fit didnt matter at the time with Travis anyway obviously...See Cam and Dre... ..... smh

Edited March 21, 2022 by terrell

[terrell]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...did I miss something?  I keep seeing 17 minutes.

How can you watch the Hawks and think OO played 32 min? lol.. Nate would never...

Edited March 21, 2022 by terrell

[terrell]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

None of those guys would fit at 17. Johnson too small to play with Trae, he's best as a small ball 4, Thybulle is proving with Harden he isn't a fit in a heliocentric offense, Poole is too bad defensively to have a shot at playing any mins with Trae. I did like Hayes and tonight is showing why he got a chance to be something in time in this league. I still hate the Cam trade but it would have never worked if Cam's goals is to be an All Star type. 

Imagine being Cam Reddish, when they tell you that the guy who averages 11 points and 3 assists, and NEVER gets to the FT line, is playing in front of you for the foreseeable future. lol

Cam had his flaws, but come on.

Edited March 21, 2022 by terrell

[Atlantaholic]

6 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I was initially shocked to realize Gallo has the 8th highest career offensive rating for active players.  Then I thought about his FT shooting and how he abuses favorable matchups pretty regularly around the paint and I felt it.  He was injured all the damn time but I would’ve enjoyed seeing him nightly with some athleticism in his prime.

Bruh, for the upteenth time. Offensive rating is a stupid stat, it is a TEAM stat that is turned into a player stat. Mitchell Robinson is the NBA leader in both offensive rating and net rating by an enormous margin. If you want to use something like this you can use RAPTOR which at least attempts to isolate the player impact from the lineups.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

[Spud2nique]

15 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Nique said f&@k that I’m just shortening it to Gomez lol

Just Go!

-

[Spud2nique]

15 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Never heard of Herb Jones in my life but I like him.

Your a stat dude so I don’t know how he measure up there but eye test, he’s the one you want out there on your team. 
 

H-U-S-T-L-E

[Spud2nique]

15 hours ago, Bonkers said:

Just tuning in. Can someone summarize the 1st half for me???

Lit dog poo .

[Spud2nique]

15 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Herb Jones (+13) and some dude named Alvarado (+12) pressed Trae pretty well (-21).  

Yup.. like I said, Herb prolly got anal(lytics)  covered too!

15 hours ago, terrell said:

Grizzlies draft Bane who I wanted

[terrell]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

To me, it's like five moves

1. Trade for Gobert. That's the biggest move. It's likely going to cost you picks, Capela and Hunter. 

2. Move Bogi back to the starting 5 and trade Kevin to HOU for Eric Gordon to be our 6th man. 

3. Get someone like Royce O'Neale with Gobert to fill in at the SF spot. He doesn't have the best size but ole well, if you can't get him, try to sign Otto Porter Jr. in FA. 

4. Trade whatever to get Siakam for JC. If not, trade JC and some goodies for AD. I doubt Atlanta will do this. The coaches love JC a lot but I know TS been shopping JC more than some of the others. I think JC is the one that might be on the block the most. Even more than Clint. 

5. Keep developing and play the young guys like JJ and Coop. I would like to see them get real mins next year in Atlanta. 

 

I am really having 2nd thoughts on Gallo. Maybe we should keep him but I know JJ needs mins next year so I am more inclined to trade him during the draft. 

For me..

First thing I'd do this summer is... 

1. Trade Collins and Huerter. Those are bad contracts for 2 players who don’t move the needle. They can both be replaced with much cheaper players who can defend.

2.Keep Bogi and Delon for 2nd unit..Delon is solid. Plays winning ball.. Bogi is inconsistent, and injury prone. However, you are half way through his deal, and he can swing games when he gets going. I'd move him though if he has to be included to get a star.

3.Trade Hunter(this makes me sad). While  He still has value... He can make shots sometimes, and play defense sometimes. His poor rebounding make him unplayable at the 4, and his passing makes him unplayable at the 2. You basically have a large 3 who only does 2 things decently.  Not worth the money hes gonna want..

4.Prepare OO to play 30 min a game. 12 or so min at the 4.. If he cant stay out of foul trouble in his 3rd year, then we'll know what we have with him..

5. Im still undecided on Gallo.. Hes a good fit for us but hes old...I'd hate to pay him 20 mill and then hes out for 3 months..

Ill stop there for now.. lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

14 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Alvarado is the type of impact defensive player I wish our wings were.

This group had plenty of chances to cut this to 4.  Instead, we're down 9 . .. now 7 with tRae and Capela back in.

I want 12 Alvarado’s on my squad. 

[Spud2nique]

14 hours ago, terrell said:

Shouldve moved him for Josh Hart.... Hart is a better leader/player than any of these guys... smh