Lukastans are biting at the bit to take a shot at Trae

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is where we need to agree to disagree.  I think they are in the mix with all of those teams.  Doesn't mean they would win against healthy versions of all those teams but they would be very much contenders to win in any series, imo.  I just think they are a better team than you do.  I certainly don't view Atlanta as heads and shoulders better than them.

I guess that means we disagree on Parity?

Miami Heat* (1)	53	29	.646	—	110.0	105.6	4.23
Boston Celtics* (2)	51	31	.622	2.0	111.8	104.5	7.02
Milwaukee Bucks* (3)	51	31	.622	2.0	115.5	112.1	3.22
Philadelphia 76ers* (4)	51	31	.622	2.0	109.9	107.3	2.57

Here are 3 of the four teams I mentioned.  Miami is better than these three by 2 games.   I would suggest that while Boston is prolly the team that has been less injured... Miami has had less injuries to Key people at the same time.  So 2 games is kinda meaningless. 

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Good teams find to a way to overcome injuries. Miami didn't have their all star back court game 5, and still beat us. It's an indictment on this team. We didn't effectively counter any of their punches. Out played, out coached. 

Guess you can say that but we see good teams ruined by injuries all the time.  Does anyone really think GS was going to be the same healthy versus missing guys the last couple years just because Curry was there?  They went from league champs to the lottery.  The impact is real.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I guess that means we disagree on Parity?

Miami Heat* (1)	53	29	.646	—	110.0	105.6	4.23
Boston Celtics* (2)	51	31	.622	2.0	111.8	104.5	7.02
Milwaukee Bucks* (3)	51	31	.622	2.0	115.5	112.1	3.22
Philadelphia 76ers* (4)	51	31	.622	2.0	109.9	107.3	2.57

Here are 3 of the four teams I mentioned.  Miami is better than these three by 2 games.   I would suggest that while Boston is prolly the team that has been less injured... Miami has had less injuries to Key people at the same time.  So 2 games is kinda meaningless. 

I agree with you on parity.  You don't agree with me.  In any given matchup, Miami could win.  The other team could win.  Miami isn't notably better or worse.  All of them could be better without injuries.  I might bet on one over the other in a particular matchup but no outcome from those matchups would be a big surprise.

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I know. I just put a Deez nuts and it’s prolly gonna get flagged by the MODERMAVS. Craaaaaappp. 
 

ps Baaaaab is gonna tell on me cuz well, Bob seems the type that would.

It's funny though that I think bawb doesn't like the guy, and vice versa.  They're both probably very conflicted by you.  Like in those movies where the characters hate each other then kiss anyway.  You're probably pushing bawb and that guy to love.  Spud2Cupid?

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

They're both probably very conflicted by you. 

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I agree with you on parity.  You don't agree with me.  In any given matchup, Miami could win.  The other team could win.  Miami isn't notably better or worse.  All of them could be better without injuries.  I might bet on one over the other in a particular matchup but no outcome from those matchups would be a big surprise.

You're right.  I don't agree with you.   I agree that the East has great parity.. but some of it was Forced Parity.  Stuff that goes unaccounted for...  For instance.

1.  What if Ben Simmons didn't flake out and he played this season for Philly?  Joel should be the MVP because for the 3/4 of the year, by himself, he kept his team high in the standing. 

2.  What if the Big Three and Lopez in Milwaukee hadn't missed  98 games due to injuries?  I can easily say that Milwaukee is the best team in the NBA.  Record doesn't matter.   You actually got to play.

When I look at Miami, I see a good team.   That's what they were last year.  I don't see a dominant team.  Jimmy Butler is alright but if he's not going to the line, he's average.  He hit some unexpectant three pointers on us.  However, Butler is not in the same Realm as Giannis or Tatum.  He can't breathe their Air.   Tyler Herro is a very good Robin to his batman.   But he and Bam can't carry the team against good competition.  You can mark these words... If they get to the ECF and Milwaukee is there and healthy, Milwaukee will sweep the heat. 

 

[bleachkit]

35 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So I guess, Doc was outcoached and his team was outplayed last night??

I guess the Houston Rockets with Barkley, Pippen, Drexler, and Hakeem wasn't a good team??

Do you even listen to the stuff that you say??  "Good teams find a way to overcome injuries"...  without context... without considering which player is injured...  this becomes Straight BS.  This is not Hoosiers my friend.  IN THE REAL WORLD.. Some injuries can't be overcome. 

 

 

We had JC. The only impact player we were missing was Capela. Bogi, Kevin, Hunter, OO were all available. What series were you watching? They beat us in a game with their all star back court completely absent. Funny how injuries only count for us, not for the other team.

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We had JC.

Just came back. Wasn’t himself.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We had JC. The only impact player we were missing was Capela. Bogi, Kevin, Hunter, OO were all available. What series were you watching? They beat us in a game with their all star back court completely absent. Funny how injuries only count for us, not for the other team.

Did we have JC???  We had a fella out there wearing JC's Jersey.  But that guy couldn't jump.  That guy couldn't catch the ball.  That guy was a shell of who the real JC is.  That guy had all the heart in the world to even come on the floor with his finger in the splint and his foot needing 1.5 more months of treatment And you say... We had JC...  That's incredibly funny.

What's your agenda BK?  Are you just trying to ignore the facts? I've never seen anybody work so hard to ignore the truth in their face.  Even AHF have come down off his perch to explain it to you ... and you still won't hear it. 

It's nice when you can pull out Oladipo and he can get you 23, 3, and 3 on 50% shooting from the field and 50% shooting from the line.

You keep ignoring that. Can you rebuttal that???  You also keep ignoring the point about key injuries. 

Finally, you replace a 35 year old Kyle Lowry who wasn't doing anything on the court by finding creative ways to foul and replace him with a 25 year old Gabe Vincent.. and I think.. that's a win.  For the series, Vincent played better. 

You're turning out to be the guy that reads the headline and skips the details.   There are details...

 

 

 

[bleachkit]

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Did we have JC???  We had a fella out there wearing JC's Jersey.  But that guy couldn't jump.  That guy couldn't catch the ball.  That guy was a shell of who the real JC is.  That guy had all the heart in the world to even come on the floor with his finger in the splint and his foot needing 1.5 more months of treatment And you say... We had JC...  That's incredibly funny.

What's your agenda BK?  Are you just trying to ignore the facts? I've never seen anybody work so hard to ignore the truth in their face.  Even AHF have come down off his perch to explain it to you ... and you still won't hear it. 

It's nice when you can pull out Oladipo and he can get you 23, 3, and 3 on 50% shooting from the field and 50% shooting from the line.

You keep ignoring that. Can you rebuttal that???  You also keep ignoring the point about key injuries. 

Finally, you replace a 35 year old Kyle Lowry who wasn't doing anything on the court by finding creative ways to foul and replace him with a 25 year old Gabe Vincent.. and I think.. that's a win.  For the series, Vincent played better. 

You're turning out to be the guy that reads the headline and skips the details.   There are details...

 

 

 

What's your agenda? Only Hawks fans are in denial about the thorough butt whooping we took from Miami. We didn't get swept, so I guess there's that on your side of the ledger.

[marco102]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

They beat us in a game with no Lowry and no Butler. Let me repeat that. In a close out game with our season on the line, they beat us with no Kyle Lowry and no Jimmy Butler. What is your rebuttal to that?

Bogi was injured, CC and JC were playing injured. 

You can acknowledge Miami would have had a tougher time beating us with a healthy JC and Capela.  That's just common sense. 

Miami still may have beaten us, but I don't think it would have been in 4-1 fashion. 

The argument you are trying to make that a healthy JC and Capela wouldn't have matter is disingenuous.  It would have made things a lot tougher for Maimi.  You can at least admit that.

I know you are hurting from the loss. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by marco102

[JeffS17]

I'll be honest I cannot even pretend like I think we would have won that series with a healthy JC/Capela/Bogi.  I was optimistic and enjoyed the games as much as one can while we get stomped, but this team  did not show me anything throughout the entire season that said Miami should be scared.  We had just as many injuries last year yet we played well, closed out the season to get a 5 seed, and made a nice run in the playoffs with Solomon Hill getting starter minutes.  The entire vibe and energy from last year vanished this offseason and I think it's VERY optimistic to say we had a chance versus Miami if Capela/JC were healthy.

I don't doubt we could have won another game, but the series just would have played out differently, altogether.  Spo would have made more adjustments and they would have thrown more defensive looks at us.  Maybe we lose 4-2 instead of 4-1, but this team did not inspire me like the one from last year.  I hope we can come out next season with a little more energy and positive vibes.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

What's your agenda?

What’s yours? We were hurt going in. JC wasn’t healthy. 

Bogi too.

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Bogi was injured, CC and JC were playing injured. 

Yup.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

You're right.  I don't agree with you.   I agree that the East has great parity.. but some of it was Forced Parity.  Stuff that goes unaccounted for...  For instance.

1.  What if Ben Simmons didn't flake out and he played this season for Philly?  Joel should be the MVP because for the 3/4 of the year, by himself, he kept his team high in the standing. 

2.  What if the Big Three and Lopez in Milwaukee hadn't missed  98 games due to injuries?  I can easily say that Milwaukee is the best team in the NBA.  Record doesn't matter.   You actually got to play.

When I look at Miami, I see a good team.   That's what they were last year.  I don't see a dominant team.  Jimmy Butler is alright but if he's not going to the line, he's average.  He hit some unexpectant three pointers on us.  However, Butler is not in the same Realm as Giannis or Tatum.  He can't breathe their Air.   Tyler Herro is a very good Robin to his batman.   But he and Bam can't carry the team against good competition.  You can mark these words... If they get to the ECF and Milwaukee is there and healthy, Milwaukee will sweep the heat. 

 

What if Oladipo is healthy for the full season?  What if Miami's Big Three (70 games missed by Bam, Lowry and Butler) and Oladipo don't miss 144 games due to injuries?

Two years ago Miami was in the NBA Finals.  They were down last year and are the #1 seed this year.  You could make the same arguments for them you are making for teams like Milwaukee.

(As an aside, Herro is not a legit #2 by any stretch of the imagination, fwiw.  He was 7th on the team in Win Shares.  Feel like you are overrating him a bit here, perhaps because that is still better than any wing on our roster this season and perhaps on the traditional metric that has been used to overrate people forever in the NBA:  PPG.)

 

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I'll be honest I cannot even pretend like I think we would have won that series with a healthy JC/Capela/Bogi.  I was optimistic and enjoyed the games as much as one can while we get stomped, but this team  did not show me anything throughout the entire season that said Miami should be scared.  We had just as many injuries last year yet we played well, closed out the season to get a 5 seed, and made a nice run in the playoffs with Solomon Hill getting starter minutes.  The entire vibe and energy from last year vanished this offseason and I think it's VERY optimistic to say we had a chance versus Miami if Capela/JC were healthy.

I don't doubt we could have won another game, but the series just would have played out differently, altogether.  Spo would have made more adjustments and they would have thrown more defensive looks at us.  Maybe we lose 4-2 instead of 4-1, but this team did not inspire me like the one from last year.  I hope we can come out next season with a little more energy and positive vibes.

I agree that there was nothing guaranteed for this year even if the team was healthy but it is also indisputable that our team played much better when healthy this season and that the injuries we had took options off the table and limited our ability to adjust on either side of the ball.  I can't predict how the series would have changed with them.  Maybe we get swept.  Maybe we look more like last year.  Maybe nothing changes.  But I can say that without a running mate for Trae in the PNR that the core design of our offense was crippled and without JC/CC being  healthy we were dramatically less imposing on both ends of the floor in the paint.  I don't see how anyone can't acknowledge that impact even if they think the result would have ended up the same.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I'll be honest I cannot even pretend like I think we would have won that series with a healthy JC/Capela/Bogi.  I was optimistic and enjoyed the games as much as one can while we get stomped, but this team  did not show me anything throughout the entire season that said Miami should be scared.  We had just as many injuries last year yet we played well, closed out the season to get a 5 seed, and made a nice run in the playoffs with Solomon Hill getting starter minutes.  The entire vibe and energy from last year vanished this offseason and I think it's VERY optimistic to say we had a chance versus Miami if Capela/JC were healthy.

I don't doubt we could have won another game, but the series just would have played out differently, altogether.  Spo would have made more adjustments and they would have thrown more defensive looks at us.  Maybe we lose 4-2 instead of 4-1, but this team did not inspire me like the one from last year.  I hope we can come out next season with a little more energy and positive vibes.

Thank you. Some serious denialism going on here. This year's team just wasnt that great. But maybe it's a good thing in the long run, as we won't be hesitant to shake things up.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

What's your agenda? Only Hawks fans are in denial about the thorough butt whooping we took from Miami. We didn't get swept, so I guess there's that on your side of the ledger.

See. you missed it.  I clearly recognized that we took a thorough butt whippin... BUT i also recognize WHY we took a thorough Butt Whippin.

It's only people who skim headlines that miss the details...

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I'll be honest I cannot even pretend like I think we would have won that series with a healthy JC/Capela/Bogi.  I was optimistic and enjoyed the games as much as one can while we get stomped, but this team  did not show me anything throughout the entire season that said Miami should be scared.  We had just as many injuries last year yet we played well, closed out the season to get a 5 seed, and made a nice run in the playoffs with Solomon Hill getting starter minutes.  The entire vibe and energy from last year vanished this offseason and I think it's VERY optimistic to say we had a chance versus Miami if Capela/JC were healthy.

I don't doubt we could have won another game, but the series just would have played out differently, altogether.  Spo would have made more adjustments and they would have thrown more defensive looks at us.  Maybe we lose 4-2 instead of 4-1, but this team did not inspire me like the one from last year.  I hope we can come out next season with a little more energy and positive vibes.

Hey Jeff...

What about the 1 win we had?

Hurt Bogi and JC... no Cap...  and Miami with everybody available and we beat them....  explain?

If we are so much lesser than Miami.

If Spo is so much better a coach than Nate.

If Miami would have beaten us when we were at full strength...

HOW in the Hell did we win that game???

Maybe, we're  closer than you want to admit.  Maybe you don't remember the last time we played them with Healthy Clint, he had 17/14?  Maybe you didn't notice that run we made last year when we were somewhat healthier...  You musta thought it was a fluke?

But.. Anyway..

I'll wait patiently for you to describe how we got that 1 win if they were soo much better than us?

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, bleachkit said:

We had JC. 

We had some version of him, barely. He was there in body...but not with his overall skill.

Quote

The clearest sign that John Collins isn’t his normal self on the court happened in the first three minutes of Game 2 Tuesday night. The Hawks forward got behind the Heat’s defense in transition, Trae Young delivered a perfect pass in stride, and Collins blew the layup at the rim.......I try to balance it out in a good way and tell myself that I’m just trying to go out there and play. I understand that it’s the risk I took knowing that if I go out there, there’s some stuff I can’t do or there will be stuff that I’m shaky with that I’m normally good at. That’s the battle and the tough part about this.”...... He said his foot is “definitely more dull than what I’m used to,” but the pain is more manageable because life as a basketball player always includes battling some lower-body soreness. Collins said he received a PRP injection in his foot to speed up the recovery process. ...........

The finger is what’s bothering Collins most now. He said he can’t put much pressure on his right ring finger and isn’t supposed to bend it at all because he tore the ligament that helps the finger bend at the knuckle.

“I’m supposed to have a splint on it at all times and keep my hand as straight as possible,” Collins said. “That’s the dilemma I have, because how are you supposed to play basketball with a straight finger? You can’t. If this was my left hand, it wouldn’t be an issue........this is my right hand, my shooting hand, the hand I use to grab rebounds — I do everything with this hand. It changes how I think, not necessarily how I play, but I just have to be more cautious with my finger.

“It changes how I fall, because I don’t want to put pressure on my finger. Gripping the rim on dunks is a challenge. I can’t do too much, but I feel like I can do enough to be helpful. It’s hard to get my touch on certain shots to get that instinctual feel because something is there that normally isn’t there. I’m trying to play through something I’m not used to playing with, and I have to do it at the highest level of basketball. It’s tough, and I’m trying to figure it out.”

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

What if Oladipo is healthy for the full season?  What if Miami's Big Three (70 games missed by Bam, Lowry and Butler) and Oladipo don't miss 144 games due to injuries?

Two years ago Miami was in the NBA Finals.  They were down last year and are the #1 seed this year.  You could make the same arguments for them you are making for teams like Milwaukee.

(As an aside, Herro is not a legit #2 by any stretch of the imagination, fwiw.  He was 7th on the team in Win Shares.  Feel like you are overrating him a bit here, perhaps because that is still better than any wing on our roster this season and perhaps on the traditional metric that has been used to overrate people forever in the NBA:  PPG.)

 

I do recognize that Miami is deep.  However, their big three hasn't had a lot of games that they missed at the same time.  And their depth and timing is why those injury games were mostly wins.  However, I agree with you that they have a case too.. but that's the thing about this parity.  Some of it is forced and some teams are much better than their record.. us included.   As I alluded to earlier... maybe Boston is the only team that settled where they are supposed to be.. and with that even Brown missed 20 something games so I can't say that too strongly.