The Hawks Backcourt: Trae and Dejounte

[AHF]

6 hours ago, shakes said:

Apparently the other players in the NBA are not too impressed with our backcourt.  Below are the results from the players' vote for the all star game for the Eastern  conference guard position.  Trae 12th and DJ not even on the list.   

 

1. Kyrie
2.Mitch
3. Jaylen brown
4. Demar
5. Harden
6. Haliburton
7.Garland
8.Brunson
9.Lamelo
10. Jrue
11. Zach
12. Trae

I think we've all already seen this one.  Color me shocked that the NBA would shortchange Atlanta players relative to their peers.  I do think DM should be in the same conversation as someone like Zach (who is the better scorer and DM better at everything else).  Trae should be higher on the list but he hasn't been good enough to outclass the top few guys.  When you get into the range of Harden (who arguably hasn't played enough to warrant consideration), DeMar, Haliburton, and Garland I think Trae is in that discussion because of his poor shooting.  He remains #1 in assists and #10 in scoring which remains pretty unique.  (By contrast, Kyrie is 49th in total assists and 23rd in total points for example.)  It is his drop in scoring efficiency that is the big drag on the merit for his case as an All-Star this year.

The players make some really stupid votes so I'm not going to speak to what it takes to rank high for all of them.  5 of them voted for Chet Holmgren who has never played a single minute in the NBA, by way of example, so I'm not sure how much I care about how a lot of them voted.

[JayBirdHawk]

Why is Trae struggling at home, but so much better on the road from 3?

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

On 2/1/2023 at 2:48 PM, AHF said:

I think we've all already seen this one.  Color me shocked that the NBA would shortchange Atlanta players relative to their peers.  I do think DM should be in the same conversation as someone like Zach (who is the better scorer and DM better at everything else).  Trae should be higher on the list but he hasn't been good enough to outclass the top few guys.  When you get into the range of Harden (who arguably hasn't played enough to warrant consideration), DeMar, Haliburton, and Garland I think Trae is in that discussion because of his poor shooting.  He remains #1 in assists and #10 in scoring which remains pretty unique.  (By contrast, Kyrie is 49th in total assists and 23rd in total points for example.)  It is his drop in scoring efficiency that is the big drag on the merit for his case as an All-Star this year.

The players make some really stupid votes so I'm not going to speak to what it takes to rank high for all of them.  5 of them voted for Chet Holmgren who has never played a single minute in the NBA, by way of example, so I'm not sure how much I care about how a lot of them voted.

Players and coaches vote for their teammates and friends. Always been this way. The fan vote is less pointless. And this is true for every sport really. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Plainview1981]

People aren't impressed because the team is supposed to be better. Nobody is impressed with 50/50.

[RedDawg#8]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:11 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Why is Trae struggling at home, but so much better on the road from 3?

 

 

I bet its shot quality.

Trae plays to the home crowd and likely takes more of the 30 footers at home when he is feeling himself. Meanwhile on the road he is more motivated to prove the hecklers/haters wrong and tightens up his shot selection.

Villian mode Trae is always more lethal than showstopper Trae.

 

[sturt]

siap............

 

 

Sooooo... didn't realize DJM grew up in Seattle, and evidently was a Sonics fan as a kid... anyone know what if anything he's said about his memories of the Sonics shooting guard who's now his head coach?

 

 

[macdaddy]

16 hours ago, sturt said:

siap............

 

 

Sooooo... didn't realize DJM grew up in Seattle, and evidently was a Sonics fan as a kid... anyone know what if anything he's said about his memories of the Sonics shooting guard who's now his head coach?

 

 

Probably rep only.   DJ was born in 96, Nate's last year was 98. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Another year and a full offseason under Quin should help.

 

Probably Bill Simmons and his minions at The Ringer...they have some of the worse Hawks trade ideas. Then I see some Hawks fans liking those ideas, 

[RedDawg#8]

Get these guys a true low post threat and we are looking at a different animal.

Our talent is perimeter heavy, and we get weaker the closer the position is to the basket.

If we keep these guys, and add a dominant big man, our entire trajectory changes.

[SalvorMallow]

19 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Another year and a full offseason under Quin should help.

 

Probably Bill Simmons and his minions at The Ringer...they have some of the worse Hawks trade ideas. Then I see some Hawks fans liking those ideas, 

Come on, you didnt like the Trae Young for Tyler Herro and washed up Kyle Lowry trade proposal? You obviously don't know basketball.

[Wretch]

21 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Another year and a full offseason under Quin should help.

 

Probably Bill Simmons and his minions at The Ringer...they have some of the worse Hawks trade ideas. Then I see some Hawks fans liking those ideas, 

So... We regularly talk about all things 3-ball related....adding shooters to this team, JC returning to form, developing AJ, JJ, and even OO.  We're quick to dump on Trae's shot selection, Bogi's streakiness is well document, and Nate's midrange-heavy offense was critiqued to death, but it's like we...sort of gloss over Murray's consistency here.  

One night he's out there draining 3's and the next, can't throw it in the ocean.  We don't talk enough about Murray's shot IMO and he's our damn starting SG.  He shoulders a chunk of our offensive load, we struggle from 3, and his numbers are sus.

I believe Quin's offense is going to help, but let's just call it like it is.  DJ needs to put in some work on that damn shot.  Like, just sit in the gym and shoot nothing but 3's all day long from now until the start of training camp.  Watching him this year, I see no reason why he can't be a legit catch and shoot threat.  Seriously, look at this dude.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

Listen from 8:24AM

https://www.audacy.com/stations/929thegame/shows/the-morning-shift-on-929-the-game-24510/episodes/15d8eaae6039?action=AUTOPLAY_FULL&actionContentId=101-409

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Peoriabird]

DJ must go!  Doesn't add wins because of his terrible defense and mediocre offense

[Diesel]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:53 PM, RedDawg#8 said:

Get these guys a true low post threat and we are looking at a different animal.

Our talent is perimeter heavy, and we get weaker the closer the position is to the basket.

If we keep these guys, and add a dominant big man, our entire trajectory changes.

What we need is for Hunter to take a leap in aggressiveness.

We need to clean up the duties of our bigs...

None of us really knows what is expected for our bigs.   We make assumptions based on how Nate ran them. 

Remember, when Quin was at Utah, JC was a target for the Jazz.  They played offensively with MCJr and Spyda Mitchell.  Bojan was the three.

Quin was able to put all those pieces together with Royce Oneal (but they wanted JC)...  And when you look at what we have now...  It has a lot of the same features. 

I think Quin came here for a reason other than his wife is from Atlanta.  There is a gleam in his eye...  He brought in Mike Brem for a reason other than they are good friends. 

I don't think we will play the same way.. so this is a situation where I hope that Landry and Korver are sitting down with Quin and he's explaining what he needs. 

 

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

What we need is for Hunter to take a leap in aggressiveness.

We need to clean up the duties of our bigs...

None of us really knows what is expected for our bigs.   We make assumptions based on how Nate ran them. 

Remember, when Quin was at Utah, JC was a target for the Jazz.  They played offensively with MCJr and Spyda Mitchell.  Bojan was the three.

Quin was able to put all those pieces together with Royce Oneal (but they wanted JC)...  And when you look at what we have now...  It has a lot of the same features. 

I think Quin came here for a reason other than his wife is from Atlanta.  There is a gleam in his eye...  He brought in Mike Brem for a reason other than they are good friends. 

I don't think we will play the same way.. so this is a situation where I hope that Landry and Korver are sitting down with Quin and he's explaining what he needs. 

 

I hear you and, respectfully, Quinn never really came close to winning a title with that crew, even in years that the Warriors were rebuilding and the Lakers were struggling.

They needed a low post threat too (not just a lob threat).

Trae is a certified bucket, just like Spyda. DJ is as good or better than any co-star that ran next to him.

Hunter and JC are serviceable on the block, but we need a big man that has a credible offensive game to really open things up for our 2 smaller guards. Someone we don’t have to hope will play aggressive, or hope will hold their position without getting pushed around.

I don’t know that Quinn has ever had this as a HC.

[JTB]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:53 PM, RedDawg#8 said:

Get these guys a true low post threat and we are looking at a different animal.

Our talent is perimeter heavy, and we get weaker the closer the position is to the basket.

If we keep these guys, and add a dominant big man, our entire trajectory changes.

 

2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I hear you and, respectfully, Quinn never really came close to winning a title with that crew, even in years that the Warriors were rebuilding and the Lakers were struggling.

They needed a low post threat too (not just a lob threat).

Trae is a certified bucket, just like Spyda. DJ is as good or better than any co-star that ran next to him.

Hunter and JC are serviceable on the block, but we need a big man that has a credible offensive game to really open things up for our 2 smaller guards. Someone we don’t have to hope will play aggressive, or hope will hold their position without getting pushed around.

I don’t know that Quinn has ever had this as a HC.

It’s like no one wants to hear you!…I know that feeling! Lol

Agreed 100%….that’s why I’m pushing for Ayton in a straight up 1 for 1 deal with Capela going back to Phx. But I would also take a serious look at Kristaps Porzingis . KP not a low post threat but his spacing makes Trae and DJ better low post threats.

I’d consider KAT but I don’t understand why we’d give up an asset like Murray when we don’t have too.

I’d much rather keep Murray and add a true offensive weapon at the 5 who can still rim protect but add value on offensive end other then being a lob threat.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

It’s like no one wants to hear you!…I know that feeling! Lol

Agreed 100%….that’s why I’m pushing for Ayton in a straight up 1 for 1 deal with Capela going back to Phx.

It's like you don't want to hear a 1 for 1 deal doesn't work: Ayton will make $32 million, Capela will make $21 million....Hawks cannot take back $11+ million without sending out more salary.  What is the rest of the deal?

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I hear you and, respectfully, Quinn never really came close to winning a title with that crew, even in years that the Warriors were rebuilding and the Lakers were struggling.

They needed a low post threat too (not just a lob threat).

Trae is a certified bucket, just like Spyda. DJ is as good or better than any co-star that ran next to him.

Hunter and JC are serviceable on the block, but we need a big man that has a credible offensive game to really open things up for our 2 smaller guards. Someone we don’t have to hope will play aggressive, or hope will hold their position without getting pushed around.

I don’t know that Quinn has ever had this as a HC.

I don't disagree that Quin's Utah team was lacking... Probably the reason they sought to get JC.  My man Royce was a 7 ppg, 7 rpg PF shooting 44% from the field.   Ingles was a little better but always hurt.  This being JC's worst season, he still shot over .500 from the field.  At the time they looked at him, he was shooting near 56%. 

BTW,  Conley Jr. is no slouch.   But it shows that Quin knows what he's doing with small guards.   Moreover, they had the best record in the West and never missed the playoffs. 

As far as Hunter/JC... we shall see.  If you think Quin didn't read the scouting report and watch the film on JC and Hunter, you're fooling yourself.   IF we're not going to trade JC, I hope that they squash all trade talk immediately.