Official Game Thread: Hawks at Rockets

[Gray Mule]

WOW!  Hawks now have another terrible record.  37 second chance points by our opponent were the most by any team in any game in the last seven seasons!

Our very own record breaking Hawks!  

[Final_quest]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  ...can we get a pogo stick rebounding energy big as the third center. 

 

 

And that is the ball game.  We gave up the most second chance points in the past 7 seasons and people are pointing fingers at our backcourt.  It basically means as long as Houston didn't turn the ball over they were gonna score.  

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

And that is the ball game.  We gave up the most second chance points in the past 7 seasons and people are pointing fingers at our backcourt.  It basically means as long as Houston didn't turn the ball over they were gonna score.  

In my eyes they don't getting off scott free either. Yes, they scored a ton of points but the rest.......

[terrell]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What fresh hell was this DJ  

 

 

That was some rookie Cam Reddish shit..... smh

[AHF]

16 hours ago, Bonkers said:

I keep telling people

 

This selfish shit has got to go. The shot distribution is ridiculous on this team. Trae thinks he has to shoot 25+ times a game and Murray is right behind him smh 

 

How is anybody else even supposed to contribute?

First, I agree we need to expand our offensive scheme.  I feel like between Calipari and Nate that I’m watching two coaches whose idea of an offensive system is “beat your defender and pass the ball to the next guy if you have to.”  It is very frustrating watching coaches waste their talent by not doing more with the offense.

Second, that being said the offense did enough to win this game.  This one was lost on D (including but not limited to the boards).

Third, Trae and DM scored 83 points on 52 FGA.  That is outstanding production per possession.  

AJ had 11 points on 5 shots.  Fantastic production.  Should have gotten the ball more.

The rest of the team scored 28 points on 25 shots.  That stinks.  Hunter and JC were the bottom dwellers on offense.  Even modest productivity would have been enough from the rest of the team.

[AHF]

On shot distribution, having two guys take most of the shots is hardly unprecedented.  The champion 1992-92 Bulls averaged 87.9 FGA/GM.  Jordan’s Pippen averaged 42.1 FGA/GM.  That is 48% of the shots.

Trae and DM average 41.3 FGA/GM out of the team’s total 93.7 FGa/GM.  That is 44% of the shots.  

There are many more examples.  If Trae and DM can be exceptionally productive like yesterday that is ok if paired with better rebounding, defense and production from our other starters.

Nate owns our offensive system.  If we were running motion offense and guys broke off and went one-on-one then I’d single them out.  But Nate’s system is nothing like that and he seems to encourage the 1on1 play.  I am not going to blast our players when they are doing what the coach asks for.  What I’d like to see from both Calipari and Nate is either then turning the offense over to a coordinator who knows their **** (Phil did that with Chicago) or expanding their own tools to get the team to do more.  

Think we’ll continue to get more of the same from Nate as long as he is the head coach.  The simplistic offense limits turnovers and he has some very talented players who have made it sing (see the last two years numbers).  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  ...can we get a pogo stick rebounding energy big as the third center. 

 

 

I went back and looked at every Offensive Rebound that Houston had

1. Some was just a luckiy bounce/tip to Rockets

2. OMG Frank, he gave up at least 7 of them to Garuba and Eason. .

3. The other thing I noticed - we don't box out: the rule is the ball goes up put a body on someone, too many of the rocket players were coming from outside the paint untouched and grabbing rebounds.

4. Guys were waiting for the ball to come to them instead of going to get it.

5. On some we just got outworked.

 

KJ Martin 5 O Rebs

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OREB&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022200278&PlayerID=1630231&RangeType=0&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612745&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

 

Garuba 5 O Rebs

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OREB&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022200278&PlayerID=1630586&RangeType=0&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612745&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

[Jody23]

The Hawks need ball and man movement by design.  Not just when guys feel like doing it.  Both Trae and Dejounte aren't going to go far because there is no system that requires them to play the right way.

And stop trying to show people up.  It was lame when Murray did it this summer and it was lame when he did it last night. Same goes for Trae. Respect the game, be a real leader, and play the game the right way.  You're never as good as you think you are.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I usually do panic but I’m not content with our performance based on our ceiling and what we are capable of doing to these teams. Im sorry but the Rockets can’t be beating us.

The Lebron Heat, ya, I mean it was a prime Lebron thought with Wade, Bosh, Allen. I mean, we have a backcourt right now and a couple bench guys that need to play more in AJ and OO. 
 

I’ll be patient but I'm not feeling very happy with us right now.

What was / is our ceiling?

In our offseason, the jury was definitely out on this team.  We thought the addition of Dejounte could get us a top 6 seed at least.  The prognosticators thought far less of us.  No one on this site was talking Championship.

Dejounte was supposed to add a defensive presence alongside Trae in the backcourt, as well as another guy who can take and make his own shot.

But we had a lot of pieces to replace, namely in the form of shooting.  And with Bogi out, shooting was going to be an issue.

Hunter was still a question mark, despite his Game 5 performance in the Heat series.  JC and Capela were supposed to anchor the frontline. Our 2nd unit is COMPLETELY NEW outside of Okongwu.  And we were even wondering if the kids were going to get legit playing time.

We're not even 20 games in, and people are ready to jump off a cliff and blow it all up?

 

Like Trae told the Knicks fans when he caught that alley oop from Bogi . . .

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What fresh hell was this DJ  

 

 

 

And the forum didn't even say anything about that play, until I said something about it.  If Trae did that, it would be Armageddon.

Dejounte was just drunk off of all of those 3s he was making.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

Trae is a big part of the problem. Coaching will be a revolving door with him. He has an ego issue. Its so obvious he wants his numbers. He wants his all star voting. He wants to be the main event. Its just obvious at this point. This team needs a coach to come in and make him an NBA point guard. 

You say without Trae they lose by 30? I'll say with Ja they win by 30. Ja just understands the game better. Ja would see that AJ was hot. Ja would get JJJ involved. Or Bane involved. He would see Brooks has the hot hand. 

Team needs a coach to coach the PG, draw up plays and tire opponents defense out. This whole coaching staff and culture needs to go. Im tired of interim and assistant coaches. Team needs a head coach with good playoff success to come in with his own staff to change the culture. 

There's just no reason why both PGs should have that many shot attempts. No team is doing that

 

No team have 2 dynamic PGs like we have either.  Both guys were red hot last night.

The more I read these comments, the more I think all of this is about getting AJ the ball so that we can celebrate him having a great shooting game.  The fact that he got no more touches, despite having complete control of the game for 3 quarters, has irritated everyone.

I honestly don't think most people cared if Hunter or Collins or anyone else on the team getting more shots.  They just wanted AJ to get more shots.

 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How long have you been here? I'm surprised you are surprised.  

Anyway as much as this loss stinks, it still only counts as one loss. Tons of lessons to be learned by EVERYONE in this collapse. You gotta play 48 minutes. How the team as a whole moves on from this will be telling.

 

 

I don't think it's so much just about this loss as it is about the brand of basketball we're playing. Overall, it's not a winning brand of basketball. Watching Trae and Murray ghost their teammates with the ball while they isolate their way to 50+ shots combined isn't a cohesive team effort. It's just a terrible formula. Two PG's on the floor and they collectively don't crack 10+ assists?  This either says alot about them, or alot about their teammates...

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by terrell

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

No team have 2 dynamic PGs like we have either.  Both guys were red hot last night.

The more I read these comments, the more I think all of this is about getting AJ the ball so that we can celebrate him having a great shooting game.  The fact that he got no more touches, despite having complete control of the game for 3 quarters, has irritated everyone.

I honestly don't think most people cared if Hunter or Collins or anyone else on the team getting more shots.  They just wanted AJ to get more shots.

 

AJ definitely needs more touches.  You can make the case he has made the most of his touches this season and that it is not close he has been so much better than everyone else.  When we desperately need more perimeter shooting, Nate should be running action to get him more shots.

For last night, there is that in combination with the frustration of losing to a bad team and the team collapsing in the fourth with some obviously bad play.

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

On shot distribution, having two guys take most of the shots is hardly unprecedented.  The champion 1992-92 Bulls averaged 87.9 FGA/GM.  Jordan’s Pippen averaged 42.1 FGA/GM.  That is 48% of the shots.

Trae and DM average 41.3 FGA/GM out of the team’s total 93.7 FGa/GM.  That is 44% of the shots.  

There are many more examples.  If Trae and DM can be exceptionally productive like yesterday that is ok if paired with better rebounding, defense and production from our other starters.

Nate owns our offensive system.  If we were running motion offense and guys broke off and went one-on-one then I’d single them out.  But Nate’s system is nothing like that and he seems to encourage the 1on1 play.  I am not going to blast our players when they are doing what the coach asks for.  What I’d like to see from both Calipari and Nate is either then turning the offense over to a coordinator who knows their **** (Phil did that with Chicago) or expanding their own tools to get the team to do more.  

Think we’ll continue to get more of the same from Nate as long as he is the head coach.  The simplistic offense limits turnovers and he has some very talented players who have made it sing (see the last two years numbers).  

You didn't really just compare Tree & DJM to Jordan & Pippen did you?  Really?

Edited November 26, 2022 by Watchman

[Watchman]

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

No team have 2 dynamic PGs like we have either.  Both guys were red hot last night.

The more I read these comments, the more I think all of this is about getting AJ the ball so that we can celebrate him having a great shooting game.  The fact that he got no more touches, despite having complete control of the game for 3 quarters, has irritated everyone.

I honestly don't think most people cared if Hunter or Collins or anyone else on the team getting more shots.  They just wanted AJ to get more shots.

 

Garland and Mitchell are better any day of the week.

[AHF]

33 minutes ago, Watchman said:

You didn't really just compare Tree & DJM to Jordan & Pippen did you?  Really?

You’ll notice I didn’t.  I said lots of teams have had that dynamic and pointed to the arguably the best combo in NBA history who proved that it can not only be successful but wildly successful.  My point was not that they are comparable but that formula isn’t fundamentally flawed.

For a less auspicious comparator, Mitchell and Garland are taking over 45% of Cleveland’s shots (38.8 of 85.6).  Maxey and Embiid are taking over 46% of Philly’s shots. Simons and Lillard are taking 45% of Portland’s FGAs. (I’m sure there are other teams with this dynamic as well.)

Point is that this is very common.  And that some teams have found great success (ie not a fundamentally bad formula).

[Jody23]

Seriously, why are you even doing this?  What's the point?  Just lame.

 

[Wretch]

To me this was just a throw away loss.  We probably should have won that game, but they didn't listen to what Nate apparently told them prior to stepping on the court.  You don't play a team's record.  You play the game.  I'm not mad though.  For one, there was never a point where I felt like we didn't have control of the game.  It felt more like they didn't respect the team they were playing.

Secondly, and more importantly, Dejounte was a CLEAN 8/13 from downtown.  I'm feeling confident that he can stretch the defense with his shot if we run sets to get him open.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

That was some rookie Cam Reddish shit..... smh

I think Jordan Crawford did something similar to this.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

On shot distribution, having two guys take most of the shots is hardly unprecedented.  The champion 1992-92 Bulls averaged 87.9 FGA/GM.  Jordan’s Pippen averaged 42.1 FGA/GM.  That is 48% of the shots.

Trae and DM average 41.3 FGA/GM out of the team’s total 93.7 FGa/GM.  That is 44% of the shots.  

There are many more examples.  If Trae and DM can be exceptionally productive like yesterday that is ok if paired with better rebounding, defense and production from our other starters.

Nate owns our offensive system.  If we were running motion offense and guys broke off and went one-on-one then I’d single them out.  But Nate’s system is nothing like that and he seems to encourage the 1on1 play.  I am not going to blast our players when they are doing what the coach asks for.  What I’d like to see from both Calipari and Nate is either then turning the offense over to a coordinator who knows their **** (Phil did that with Chicago) or expanding their own tools to get the team to do more.  

Think we’ll continue to get more of the same from Nate as long as he is the head coach.  The simplistic offense limits turnovers and he has some very talented players who have made it sing (see the last two years numbers).  

Best post of the thread so far.

Level-headed and factual.