Official Game Thread: Hawks at Hornets

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, SalvorMallow said:

This is demonstrably false this season. See my previous post. Not saying its BECAUSE of Trae, but he has improved a ton on defense this year...the stats match the eye test.

He sucks just as bad on D now as he always has. He's just protected better because we got one of the best two-way PGs next to him instead of defensive sieves like Huerter and Bogi. 

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, Threezus said:

I'll say one thing for sure Collins is a much much better defender and team help defender than people give him credit for now.   If he was moved without bringing in a even better defender than him back then we are probably in deep trouble even more than we are now.

Facts! He's improved a ton. The numbers are a lot worse but he's a lot better than he used to be. He actually does shit that helps us win now. It's not just putting up empty numbers anymore. 

The issue with JC is defensive versatility and he doesn't handle all matchups well. Big wings are a nightmare for him and he sucks against talented length like AD, Giannis, or Siakam. He does well against weaker 4s and regular sized 4s. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by NBASupes

[SalvorMallow]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He sucks just as bad on D now as he always has. He's just protected better because we got one of the best two-way PGs next to him instead of defensive sieves like Huerter and Bogi. 

I know you're a stats guy...show me the stat that demonstrates that Trae is the worst defender in the league. Any stat will do.

 

In fact, I'd be shocked if you could find one showing that Trae is the worst defender on the Hawks.

[terrell]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We score 138 points....we gave up 144...where the DEFENDERS at?

 

 

Exactly...

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Is this real life? 

 

 

@TheNorthCydeRises said we going 19-6 tho bay bay! 

[terrell]

Hawks arent catching the Knicks.. Knicks are just better imo..Brunson is a bull dog and we have poodles.... Our only hope for playoffs is the Nets keep slipping.. We better watch out for the Wiz too..

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@TheNorthCydeRises said we going 19-6 tho bay bay! 

Just like Ive been saying..

MID

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[terrell]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

When I said we didn't fit, dudes cried and said otherwise but they really don't fit. Talented as heck but it's hard to get an easy basket these days. 

Most nights, I’d check scores of other games/teams who we are battling for position in the standings. And for the first time this season, I don’t care. I’m not checking. We’re not “battling” anymore anyways. I hope we tank. A lottery pick might make the offseason a bit more compelling. Smh

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

I would just like to see our supposed defensive players make a timely play - a block, a steal, a timely rotation, a deflection. Be vocal  pressure the ball, ball deny ...Etc.

 

 

[SalvorMallow]

I really liked what I saw from ay Bey Bey tonight. If we can start transitioning Bogi's minutes to Bey as @sturt suggested, I think we will see some real improvement in our lineups. Trae + Bogi lineups have been awful for us this season. Bey gives us a willing shooter who can also defend..so I feel like he can pad out the minutes and compliment Trae better.

[terrell]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Our perimeter defense is sooo bad it's beyond words... And so it's easy to penetrate against us and/or kick out to 3point shooters... Sick of it..

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

I know you're a stats guy...show me the stat that demonstrates that Trae is the worst defender in the league. Any stat will do.

 

In fact, I'd be shocked if you could find one showing that Trae is the worst defender on the Hawks.

Just watch the games and pay close attention to our schemes and the opponents' gameplan. Teams are constantly trying to get Trae in screens, PnRs, pin-downs, cutting off of him, and posting him up. Atlanta's defense is constantly working to get him out of harm's way consistency which breaks our defensive integrity and makes it impossible to play a sound defensive scheme. You can watch a lot of NBA ball and yes, there are some insanely bad defenders out there like Jalen Green but no one is picked on in as many ways as Trae and no team works as hard to protect their weakest link as the Hawks. 

It's obvious to those who understand schemes and defensive integrity. For example, Denver is not great defensive team personnel wise but they always maintain their defensive integrity, especially Jokic. Now they can get abused on PnRs and you can scheme the f*** out of them but that's time-consuming and for an 82-game season, teams aren't going to do that. Atlanta is the worst team in the NBA at defensive integrity, even Charlotte maintains their integrity better and they have hardly any defenders on the roster. You don't have to be a great defense talent-wise to maintain integrity but with Trae, I don't believe it's possible. We added Murray who's a top-end two-way PG and we still can't maintain it and that was something his Spurs were good at last year even if they weren't good. 

Trae is a problem because he's bad at so much on defense. The physical shit is a given but the feel for the game on D is bad, he falls asleep on defense more than Sergino Dest at Barcelona and I love Dest for the USMNT. He doesn't play off the ball well at all. Teams are consistently trying to get him screen/backdoor action. It's like, whenever they see Trae in the game, teams have gotten more crafty at how to attack him. It's no longer trying to iso against him. Teams have smarten up and I see a lot of secondary assists due to teams attacking Trae. Sometimes when he's out of the game and he doesn't have it going on offense, I hope he doesn't come back in. 

He's just a tough player to deal with. As I said, Trae is a coach's nightmare. But an owner's dream as well as stans who just love his style and creativity. They can also look past the rest or blame others. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by NBASupes

[terrell]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I would just like to see our supposed defensive players make a timely play - a block, a steal, a timely rotation, a deflection. Be vocal...Etc.

 

 

"supposed" is right..

[Threezus]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

KAT is not a true #1 option. He's a pseudo-one like Trae. He and Murray won't work as Murray isn't really a creator to make life easier and KAT is not a passer who can create for others. We would just be trading in one problem for another. We need players who maximize other players. Trae can max KAT as Trae can be the creator and KAT can just focus on scoring and drawing a lot of attention away from Trae. 

We also need a reliable SG who can defend as well. I hope that's Griffin but he looks 25 some nights and 16 in other nights. I don't know if he's ready for that. 

KAT never needs to play PF. He sucks defensively at it. He's a 5 through and through although a tough fit as he is a great paint protector but an average rim protector. He also doesn't defend well in space even for a 5 and he kind of has limitations that can harm us on that end. But you almost have to take the good with the bad if you can optimize Trae and KAT on offense even if the defense is wack. I'll rather play elite offense where we are the best and deal with a really bad defense than be a bad defense with an inconsistent middle-of-the-pack offense. Sometimes, elite offense is your best defense as the other team is consistently taking the ball out of the net. 

Then Embidd or AD is probably main targets as both of those guys can be a true #1 option when their on and both play much better defense than KAT.  Although getting any of the 3 is highly unlikely i would imagine lol.

[SalvorMallow]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Just watch the games and pay close attention to our schemes and the opponents' gameplan. Teams are constantly trying to get Trae in screens, PnRs, pin-downs, cutting off of him, and posting him up. Atlanta's defense is constantly working to get him out of harm's way consistency which breaks our defensive integrity and makes it impossible to play a sound defensive scheme. You can watch a lot of NBA ball and yes, there are some insanely bad defenders out there like Jalen Green but no one is picked on in as many ways as Trae and no team works as hard to protect their weakest link as the Hawks. 

It's obvious to those who understand schemes and defensive integrity. For example, Denver is not great defensive team personnel wise but they always maintain their defensive integrity, especially Jokic. Now they can get abused on PnRs and you can scheme the f*** out of them but that's time-consuming and for an 82-game season, teams aren't going to do that. Atlanta is the worst team in the NBA at defensive integrity, even Charlotte maintains their integrity better and they have hardly any defenders on the roster. You don't have to be a great defense talent-wise to maintain integrity but with Trae, I don't believe it's possible. We added Murray who's a top-end two-way PG and we still can't maintain it and that was something his Spurs were good at last year even if they weren't good. 

Trae is a problem because he's bad at so much on defense. The physical shit is a given but the feel for the game on D is bad, he falls asleep on defense more than Sergino Dest at Barcelona and I love Dest for the USMNT. He doesn't play off the ball well at all. Teams are consistently trying to get him screen/backdoor action. It's like, whenever they see Trae in the game, teams have gotten more crafty at how to attack him. It's no longer trying to iso against him. Teams have smarten up and I see a lot of secondary assists due to teams attacking Trae. Sometimes when he's out of the game and he doesn't have it going on offense, I hope he doesn't come back in. 

He's just a tough player to deal with. As I said, Trae is a coach's nightmare. But an owner's dream as well as stans who just love his style and creativity. They can also look past the rest or blame others. 

I get it, Trae isn't a good defender. What I'm missing is how is Trae a worse defender than Bogi? How is he a worse defender than Seth Curry (He made Huerter look like Kobe in game 7)? How is he worse than Damian Lillard?? 

There's no way you can justify calling Trae the worst defender on our team, let alone the worst defender of all time.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Threezus said:

Then Embidd or AD is probably main targets as both of those guys can be a true #1 option when their on and both play much better defense than KAT.  Although getting any of the 3 is highly unlikely i would imagine lol.

The problem with AD is he can't stay healthy and he can't really shoot anymore like JC. So spacing becomes an issue. Embiid is ideal. He finally added the PnR to his repertoire with Harden. He's been amazing. He does hold the ball too much and too long but that's not an issue with a player like Trae and the Hawks are naturally heliocentric so it fits Embiid as well. That said, Embiid will cost a fortune and I don't know if we can get him. Murray might not be appealing to a rebuilding team like Philly if they lose Harden/Embiid in the same month. 

[Diesel]

Concerns for Griff?   Has he hit the wall??

[JayBirdHawk]

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, Threezus said:

Then Embidd or AD is probably main targets as both of those guys can be a true #1 option when their on and both play much better defense than KAT.  Although getting any of the 3 is highly unlikely i would imagine lol.

I bet the Lakers would be all ears.   AD is going to miss 2/3s of the season.