Official Game Thread: Hawks at Hornets

[Threezus]

Just now, NBASupes said:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-without-trae-young

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-with-trae-young

It's massively better without him. This year, we just aren't a good team when key players miss games, regardless of who it is. We get smoked too much this year when key players are out. 

I'll say one thing for sure Collins is a much much better defender and team help defender than people give him credit for now.   If he was moved without bringing in a even better defender than him back then we are probably in deep trouble even more than we are now.

[SalvorMallow]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-without-trae-young

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-with-trae-young

It's massively better without him. This year, we just aren't a good team when key players miss games, regardless of who it is. We get smoked too much this year when key players are out. 

Nice try using all time stats

THIS SEASON:
115.4 DRating when Trae is on

117.8 DRating when Trae is off

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-without-trae-young-this-season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-with-trae-young-this-season

 

Totally kills your narrative.

[JTB]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Another offensive possession where they exposed Trae. 

When we get a new coach, the one thing I want to see him to do is pull Trae from defensive possessions in ALL CLOSE GAMES. 

Trae on D and Clint on O in late games is toxic. They suck so bad. 

I’m not against this. I don’t understand why Nate isn’t already doing this . We didn’t need both Trae and Bogi out there at the same time . Obviously Trae is the offensive engine but in games like this when you need offense and defense to close you have to choose what you are going to do!

Trae and a bunch of defenders or Murray & Bogi everyone else defenders.

Tonight we should have pulled bogi late and had either AJ or Bey out there playing the 3 since Hunter was at the 4.

[terrell]

I dont even care about this current squad anymore(I already know we're MID) but these losses are still numbing.... smh

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

I’m not against this. I don’t understand why Nate isn’t already doing this . We didn’t need both Trae and Bogi out there at the same time . Obviously Trae is the offensive engine but in games like this when you need offense and defense to close you have to choose what you are going to do!

Trae and a bunch of defenders or Murray & Bogi everyone else defenders.

Tonight we should have pulled bogi late and had either AJ or Bey out there playing the 3 since Hunter was at the 4.

Because Nate doesnt care.. He's probably trying to expose this team and Trae at this point...he's a dead coach walking so why shouldnt he? lol

I mean has he said a word about Trae not making the Allstar team? Not that I know of..

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[Threezus]

Just now, terrell said:

New coach gonna get the same criticism as Nate soon enough.. 

 

So whats the move      Trae for KAT    Collins + 1st for best 2 way SG you can get ?   Have Kat play a big 4 that can stretch the range like Collins but better next to capela down low?   2 elite level rebounders at that point and have Murray run the point?   Im not sure what trades would need to be made to make this all work at this point.   What would your idea be if you could pull it off within reason?

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

Man this backcourt aint it.. Frontcourt either..

Not for winning a championship that is..

Hawks need to accept it and move on somehow..

 

The biggest issue with last year's team was they couldn't get an easy basket when they needed it and it killed their offensive value which was top 3 in the NBA but when it matter, bottom half of the league. 

This year, they just can't get an easy basket at all. Tonight they did more than usual but Charlotte doesn't play much defense. The biggest issue is Capela. As much of a strength he is, Atlanta runs the damn offense through him, Trae and DJ use the heck out of his screens. You gotta be more of an elite offensive threat if you getting used this damn much. I didn't think DJ played bad tonight, but he wasn't good either. It was a rough night. They attacked mismatches like no other and put pressure on every defender even if they had less success with some than others. 

Atlanta is not a flawed team like last year, they just got serious weaknesses like Toronto. 

Can't get an easy basket

Too dribble drive dependent

Trae been protected much better this year but he gets exposed against these five-out teams like Charlotte. 

Our bigs never make anyone pay for going small. 

We just got too many specialists. That's fine if you got LeBron but with Trae, you need legit players. 

The Hawks are not going to be a good team till they address some key issues. 

[Vol4ever]

We can't play ZERO defense and expect to win.  We don't even guard shooters.   

[JayBirdHawk]

We score 138 points....we gave up 144...where the DEFENDERS at?

 

 

[SalvorMallow]

1 minute ago, Vol4ever said:

We can't play ZERO defense and expect to win.  We don't even guard shooters.   

I really think this is the scheme at this point. Nate likes to pack the paint and leave shooters open like its 1995.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is extremely bad and puts everyone out of position. Charlotte is one of those all 5 can shoot teams. Can't defend for shit unless Williams is in the game but when you had a massive flaw like Trae, it gets exposed against these five-out teams who can shoot and dribble drive like Charlotte. I don't even think we beat Charlotte this year. 

 

The video box scores will show exactly what happened in this game, from a shooting standpoint. 

Trae doesn't put everyone out of position.  This team as a whole is constantly out of position.  We all know that Trae gets caught with ball watching, but so does about 4 other guys on the team.  Trae's worse defensive play was when he didn't stay with Rozier and gave up that layup to put them up by 5.

Dejounte locked in defensively toward the end of the game, but he was horrible on that end for the first 3 quarters.  He and Dre couldn't stop Hayward.  And LaMelo was having his way with anyone that was on him, because he got his long 3 ball going.

But for most of the night, you simply had guys getting wide open looks and knocking the 3s down.  They just showed about 7 threes the Hornets made on the post game show, and they were all guys who were left wide open in the corner, because the opposite wing is ball watching and not attached enough to the man in the corner.  Hunter and Bogi were major culprits in this.

Once again, if Trae is the main issue defensively with this team, why doesn't the team play lights out defense when he's out the game?

[terrell]

This team isn't serious.

Our team is full of guys who are content with just putting up stats. No one on our team gets upset. They aren't diving on the floor.

Just a bunch of bums leaning on statistics.

Jalen played well. OO hustled. The other guys on the team were worthless. Terrible.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

Nice try using all time stats

THIS SEASON:
115.4 DRating when Trae is on

117.8 DRating when Trae is off

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-without-trae-young-this-season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/hawks-defensive-rating-with-trae-young-this-season

 

Totally kills your narrative.

 

People really be trying to die on that hill.  Anybody that watches this team knows what up.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Threezus said:

So whats the move      Trae for KAT    Collins + 1st for best 2 way SG you can get ?   Have Kat play a big 4 that can stretch the range like Collins but better next to capela down low?   2 elite level rebounders at that point and have Murray run the point?   Im not sure what trades would need to be made to make this all work at this point.   What would your idea be if you could pull it off within reason?

KAT is not a true #1 option. He's a pseudo-one like Trae. He and Murray won't work as Murray isn't really a creator to make life easier and KAT is not a passer who can create for others. We would just be trading in one problem for another. We need players who maximize other players. Trae can max KAT as Trae can be the creator and KAT can just focus on scoring and drawing a lot of attention away from Trae. 

We also need a reliable SG who can defend as well. I hope that's Griffin but he looks 25 some nights and 16 in other nights. I don't know if he's ready for that. 

KAT never needs to play PF. He sucks defensively at it. He's a 5 through and through although a tough fit as he is a great paint protector but an average rim protector. He also doesn't defend well in space even for a 5 and he kind of has limitations that can harm us on that end. But you almost have to take the good with the bad if you can optimize Trae and KAT on offense even if the defense is wack. I'll rather play elite offense where we are the best and deal with a really bad defense than be a bad defense with an inconsistent middle-of-the-pack offense. Sometimes, elite offense is your best defense as the other team is consistently taking the ball out of the net. 

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, Threezus said:

So whats the move      Trae for KAT    Collins + 1st for best 2 way SG you can get ?   Have Kat play a big 4 that can stretch the range like Collins but better next to capela down low?   2 elite level rebounders at that point and have Murray run the point?   Im not sure what trades would need to be made to make this all work at this point.   What would your idea be if you could pull it off within reason?

Murray? Hell No.. Im trading him before Trae.. (No need to even think about trading Trae with curent F.O. anyway so forget aboutn that)..

Even though I dont think we can win anything with Trae as our #1 guy...

We definitely cant with Murray.. Trae can be a great number 2.. Murray is a 3 guy on a championship team imo..

We need a true #1 guy to go with Trae.

Whether it's a big or a wing... I prefer a big

Been telling yall forever Trae is hard to build around with his shortcomings...Fit is everything with Trae centric show.. 

Ive always wanted Trae, three 3 and D guys with SIZE and an ELITE center.. But good luck with that...

Tanking for Wemby or trading for Embiid is the best move.. lol

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

 

ZERO DEFENSIVE PRESSURE! 

 

 

 

[terrell]

12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

People really be trying to die on that hill.  Anybody that watches this team knows what up.

Yeah our defense sucks with or without Trae.. But it definitely isnt better with him thats for sure.....

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The video box scores will show exactly what happened in this game, from a shooting standpoint. 

Trae doesn't put everyone out of position.  This team as a whole is constantly out of position.  We all know that Trae gets caught with ball watching, but so does about 4 other guys on the team.  Trae's worse defensive play was when he didn't stay with Rozier and gave up that layup to put them up by 5.

Dejounte locked in defensively toward the end of the game, but he was horrible on that end for the first 3 quarters.  He and Dre couldn't stop Hayward.  And LaMelo was having his way with anyone that was on him, because he got his long 3 ball going.

But for most of the night, you simply had guys getting wide open looks and knocking the 3s down.  They just showed about 7 threes the Hornets made on the post game show, and they were all guys who were left wide open in the corner, because the opposite wing is ball watching and not attached enough to the man in the corner.  Hunter and Bogi were major culprits in this.

Once again, if Trae is the main issue defensively with this team, why doesn't the team play lights out defense when he's out the game?

Why is the team consistently out of position? Protecting Trae and when they can't. It's like that final play where Melo wanted a PnR on Trae to get Washington the PnP 3 which is easy as Trae shot contest is trash for a guy the size of P.J. Washington. You always defend Trae and he's always ass on defense. 

 

I can't with you. Trae has always been the problem on defense and always the common denominator of our horrendous defense. We have a 112.1 DefRtg all time without Trae and with Trae, 115.2 with him all time. That's a game 3.1 difference. You keep running from the fact that he's f***ing garbage on D and the worst there ever has been. I've never seen so many teams gameplay to expose one player and consistently score while doing it. But your ass will talk about the box score clips. Watched the f***ing game! 

Hayward has always been a pain in our ass as has Rozier. DJ defense looked sound to me even early on. He was on his assignments but you can't guard everyone and Charlotte has a tendency to hit wild contested shots against us whenever we play. 

A lot of it was broken coverage. I seen three cuts in a row on Trae. Rozier had one and several others had some which led to lead passes for open 3s. Your boy was also sleeping on defense but you will likely remember the deflections Trae had, call him Mitten and ignore the 99% of bullshit we saw tonight. 

[PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED] He was so f***ing garbage tonight but you will defend him nonetheless and blame the team. 

[SalvorMallow]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Yeah our defesne sucks with or without Trae.. But it definitely isnt better with him...

This is demonstrably false this season. See my previous post. Not saying its BECAUSE of Trae, but he has improved a ton on defense this year...the stats match the eye test.

[JayBirdHawk]

Is this real life?