Official Game Thread: Hawks at Hornets

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

The biggest issue with last year's team was they couldn't get an easy basket when they needed it and it killed their offensive value which was top 3 in the NBA but when it matter, bottom half of the league. 

This year, they just can't get an easy basket at all. Tonight they did more than usual but Charlotte doesn't play much defense. The biggest issue is Capela. As much of a strength he is, Atlanta runs the damn offense through him, Trae and DJ use the heck out of his screens. You gotta be more of an elite offensive threat if you getting used this damn much.  

I’m not sure what we can do about this. I’m in complete agreement that offense is geared for Trae but ran through Capela because he’s the best screener on the team and maybe the nba. It’s no secret guards like Trae and CP3 loves capelas commitment to the screens however upgrading him seems like a huge long shot. 
I was all for Ayton since I thought that was the most realistic option and it still may be but Ayton HAS to have a high end defensive 4 next to him that can also team rebound at a high level. Maybe OO is the perfect 4 next to Ayton but not sure we can trust OO on delivering on the boards for us. Then again maybe at the 4 OO could be a better rebounder.

 

It’s too much of a long shot to realistically hold out hope for KAT or Embiid in my opinion. Ayton delivers in some areas then take away in other areas.

 

I know you’re not in agreement but I still think Simmons/Ayton may be the best we can do. Simmons still has a good chance to return to 76er Simmons but I know it’s all high risk.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The entire team had defensive breakdowns, including Trae at the end.

But you consistently act like the bad team defense is solely because of Trae.  The entire defensive scheme is bad, with the way we're leaving people wide open for corner 3s.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022200857&PlayerID=0&RangeType=0&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612766&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

 

It's sorely because of Trae with the starters. With the backups, they are just young and the vets suck on D like Bogi, Justin Holiday and Frank the Tank. Aaron Holiday are only good defensive player on the bench outside of OO who's like a 6th starter. 

[sturt]

32 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Has he hit the wall??

I prefer "a" wall. It's not some made-up excuse (as some might claim) for these rookies that actually get on the floor from early in the season have to have their minutes managed--it's a real thing that they've never been through the grinder that the NBA 82 game season presents. Have some faith, though, that Bey's presence is going to alleviate some of that, and that AJ's youth will grant him a second wind.

 

[NBASupes]

Just now, JTB said:

I’m not sure what we can do about this. I’m in complete agreement that offense is geared for Trae but ran through Capela because he’s the best screener on the team and maybe the nba. It’s no secret guards like Trae and CP3 loves capelas commitment to the screens however upgrading him seems like a huge long shot. 
I was all for Ayton since I thought that was the most realistic option and it still may be but Ayton HAS to have a high end defensive 4 next to him that can also team rebound at a high level. Maybe OO is the perfect 4 next to Ayton but not sure we can trust OO on delivering on the boards for us. Then again maybe at the 4 OO could be a better rebounder.

 

It’s too much of a long shot to realistically hold out hope for KAT or Embiid in my opinion. Ayton delivers in some areas then take away in other areas.

 

I know you’re not in agreement but I still think Simmons/Ayton may be the best we can do. Simmons still has a good chance to return to 76er Simmons but I know it’s all high risk.

Harden has the size the use Capela and not be punished by his lack of range as he's great around the rim and was a foul-drawing machine. CP3 was punished by it. That's why he had to go when he didn't have the level of explosiveness that he had his first year in Houston. Capela's lack of range is an issue if you are using him as anything more than a garbage man. We run too many PnRs through him. He's doing more harm than good on that end.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Ayton brings issues as well. He's on the same tier as Capela. While he maybe more effective at PnR and screening than Capela would be for us. The rebounding, effort issues, and poor rim protection would hurt us depending on the personnel. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 minutes ago, terrell said:

Some folks here have Trae pegged as an untradeable asset. Trae is tradeable. I'm not saying everything wrong with this team is on him. But Trae isn't the primary building block to build a franchise around. No way this team isn't a top 6 team in today's eastern conference if you swapped Luka for Trae IMO.

 

Based off of what?

He got his Hall of Fame talent to play with him, yet, the Mavs are 0 - 2 when Doncic and Irving play with each other.

Luka isn't a good man or team defender. So if you match him up with a group of guys that can't defend, you'll get similar results.

[SalvorMallow]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Based off of what?

He got his Hall of Fame talent to play with him, yet, the Mavs are 0 - 2 when Doncic and Irving play with each other.

Luka isn't a good man or team defender. So if you match him up with a group of guys that can't defend, you'll get similar results.

They traded away DFS and are paying the price for it.

[sturt]

I'm just going to observe

(a) no one's taken me up on my avatar bet yet...

and...

(b) a game like tonight amplifies why you really do yourself a disservice to write-off the idea of pursuing a Stanley Johnson, or anyone else who might have some reputation for good-to-very-good perimeter defense... hey Jeremy Lamb, you have anything left in your tank?

[terrell]

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This team is way too talented to be this mediocre. They are legit as talented as any team not named Milwaukee and Boston in the East but they don't fit. 

The Hawks have pretty much been a blah team in the Trae era with the exception of the 5 months that they made that run. Multiple coaches, multiple iterations of the roster, swapping out offense for defensive guys, etc, nothing seems to stick.

I was hoping that this would finally be the year where we saw a top tier regular season out of the Trae led Hawks especially with the addition of Murray. But actually this feels like the worse.

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

The Hawks have pretty much been a blah team in the Trae era with the exception of a 5 months that they made that run. Multiple coaches, multiple iterations of the roster, swapping out offense for defensive guys, etc, nothing seems to stick.

The COVID sped-up season is more fool's gold than the bubble. It really shouldn't count. Teams had no time to adjust so when we started protecting Trae which we weren't doing under LP and started going with the 1/5 PnR instead of LP's beloved 1/4 PnR. Teams had no time to adjust to what we did. You notice, a lot of BS we did during the RS by the end started to get stopped even by bad teams and we had to completely rely on Hunter and Gallo to beat New York who was also fool's gold. 

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Based off of what?

He got his Hall of Fame talent to play with him, yet, the Mavs are 0 - 2 when Doncic and Irving play with each other.

Luka isn't a good man or team defender. So if you match him up with a group of guys that can't defend, you'll get similar results.

Luka is a good team defender. What are you talking about? He's just not a good man-defender. 

I actually like watching them play together. They just gotta figure out how to best use each other. The offense is there. The defense is hit or miss. I definitely see a good fit. I've watched both games and I've seen a lot of progress tonight. Color me impressed. 

[Jody23]

I want to see this team with effective coaching.  Unfortunately, we won't because the objective of staying below the luxury tax is going to mean at least a couple of the team's top guys will be traded this offseason perhaps in Huerter like deals.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Jody23 said:

I want to see this team with effective coaching.  Unfortunately, we won't because the objective of staying below the luxury tax is going to mean at least a couple of the team's top guys will be traded this offseason perhaps in Huerter like deals.

This team needs personnel fixes far more than coaching fixes. I actually believe Nate is topping out with this squad. Others will have a massive issue, especially those who are set in their ways. 

[Jody23]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This team needs personnel fixes far more than coaching fixes. I actually believe Nate is topping out with this squad. Others will have a massive issue, especially those who are set in their ways. 

I agree personnel changes are needed, but I wholeheartedly disagree that personnel is a bigger issue than the coaching.  Respectfully...it's really really bad.  We saw the same stuff in Portland and Indiana.

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I agree personnel changes are needed, but I wholeheartedly disagree that personnel is a bigger issue than the coaching.  Respectfully...it's really really bad.  We saw the same stuff in Portland and Indiana.

Everyone that says that never can answer my next question. If Nate was so bad, what's the record of the teams he left before he joined and the season after he was gone. Nate will never be a great coach but he is always been a pretty good one. The Joe Johnson of coaches. I think ya'll would be disappointed if we keeping it a buck especially if the personnel remains mainly the same. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Based off of what?

He got his Hall of Fame talent to play with him, yet, the Mavs are 0 - 2 when Doncic and Irving play with each other.

Luka isn't a good man or team defender. So if you match him up with a group of guys that can't defend, you'll get similar results.

Give them time to get used to each other like you did with Trae and DJM.. lol

Trae Young is a disaster on the defensive end, and way less efficient scorer than Doncic on the other..(Pretty easy to trap Trae or take him away with his lack of size.see Miami)And Playing him with Bogi makes his D even worse, though it seems almost impossible to imagine.......At least Luka has the size to bother 3 pt shooters..and crash the boards unlike anyone on our team not namd CC...Trae defense lowkey cost us this game.. gave up that Hayward three , Rozier layup and that PJ Washington three . They just targeted him at the end.. 

With that said he gave more effort on defense than Murray in this game.

Murray defense was trash today. he was allowing paint penetration with 0 resistance. 

That trade might haunt us for a long time...

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Luka is a good team defender. What are you talking about? He's just not a good man-defender. 

I actually like watching them play together. They just gotta figure out how to best use each other. The offense is there. The defense is hit or miss. I definitely see a good fit. I've watched both games and I've seen a lot of progress tonight. Color me impressed. 

Kyrie played 40 minutes tonight. And he earned it. 26 points in the 4th quarter to bring his team back from down 26 to down 2. they couldn't close it out, but man what in the world has Murray done to warrant 40 minutes? His defense was atrocious tonight. Isnt that why Trae/Nick brought him here?  And he's barely getting 20 points on offense playing 40 fkn minutes and complete quarters. Smh

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, terrell said:

Kyrie played 40 minutes tonight. And he earned it. 26 points in the 4th quarter to bring his team back from down 26 to down 2. they couldn't close it out, but man what in the world has Murray done to warrant 40 minutes? His defense was atrocious tonight. Isnt that why Trae/Nick brought him here?  And he's barely getting 20 points on offense playing 40 fkn minutes and complete quarters. Smh

Murray got a hard f***ing job. Every night to guard the best guard with no nights off isn't easy and protect Trae at that. That's hard as hell. I used to give Hunter that as leeway because that's a lot that in this league, we don't ask from star players. Maybe Scottie Pippen em in the 90s but in today's NBA, no one is asked to do what we ask of Murray. Maybe Draymond who's in the top 100. Murray proved a lot to me this year that he's much better than I thought. 

[Sothron]

It was the point of attack (POA) defense that keeps killing us. Some of this game was just the Hornets hitting everything they put up but there were some definite defensive letdowns that were avoidable.

It isn't fair to ask DJM to be on the best guard every possession and then come down and be the 1a option on offense behind Trae. DJM has done a good job this season. Trae's defense has improved this season. This is the best defense he's ever played in his career.

But tonight...oh man. That was just brutal to watch for stretches of the game. 

The Hornets have won only 16 games this year. Easily the worst team in the NBA...and they just traded two rotation players AWAY so they can tank even harder. They had lost seven straight games...and then they beat our brains out on defense. They are 3-1 against this year. Just pathetic frankly. 

[theheroatl]

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

It was the point of attack (POA) defense that keeps killing us. Some of this game was just the Hornets hitting everything they put up but there were some definite defensive letdowns that were avoidable.

It isn't fair to ask DJM to be on the best guard every possession and then come down and be the 1a option on offense behind Trae. DJM has done a good job this season. Trae's defense has improved this season. This is the best defense he's ever played in his career.

But tonight...oh man. That was just brutal to watch for stretches of the game. 

The Hornets have won only 16 games this year. Easily the worst team in the NBA...and they just traded two rotation players AWAY so they can tank even harder. They had lost seven straight games...and then they beat our brains out on defense. They are 3-1 against this year. Just pathetic frankly. 

Our POA defense is so weak it opens up corner 3's and other kick outs. Who is there for POA defense? It isn't the guards, hint hint.

The box score +/- is misleading because of the 4th quarter comeback points. 

Our defensive scheme for our frontcourt is non-existent and always leaves us scrambling. Our personnel is terrible at defending at those positions. I was hoping Bey would be a big body to prevent POA but looks like they all had no clue but to stand around and watch them drive.

Edited February 14, 2023 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

I will give Bey a break.. First Day on the Job and he's playing PF to start. 

I just take it that Charlotte has our number.   We better play much better than this on Wednesday.  If anything, this was a slap in the face.   Now we have to get up and keep pounding.