Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks

[terrell]

1 hour ago, deester11 said:

Someone (Diesel perhaps), tell me how I'm supposed to feel considering the same issues rear their ugly head time and time again.  Lethargic and archaic and stoic...OK, awful basketball does not spark enthusiasm with me.  Am I supposed to be happy with a play-in game, first round exit....just getting to the playoffs? I'm freaking not, nor will I ever be. Should I bank on the offseason for the umpteenth hundred time?  We get a big FA right? Always good to dream I guess.

IMHO, the coach or players have to go.  No way the players go, so coach it is.  Don't sell me on the Nate is doing ok crap.  Ain't happening and I ain't buying. I'm not even getting to the FO bs, but what the hell can I surmise that gives me confidence that this team will be a juggernaut before Armageddon? 

Diesel isnt even on here making excuses anymore, so you know it's bad.. lol

6 minutes ago, shakes said:

I told y'all this team should be tanking back in November and y'all said I was crazy.  Yea, crazy like a fox.

 

Only chance this team has of getting good is to get a real #1 star who can take control of the team and put Trae in his rightful place as a Robin.   This team isn't gonna get better jus by changing out the role players.  And the only chance this team has of getting a #1 is in the draft and they already screwed that up this year by accepting their position as a treadmill team.

 

 

Yep...

[terrell]

42 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae wanted JC to get paid and demanded we resign him when he should have let him walk or sign elsewhere and match the contract. 

Trae wanted Murray as much as Murray wanted to live and play in Atlanta. 

We made one massive blunder with JC and a potential harmful trade for Murray but we don't know that yet till we see what the Hawks do in the offseason. 

Trae GM is ass...

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, terrell said:

The problem with "major changes" is who wants to give up alot of capital for any of our players? I cant see it..

This is what I've been talking about. Only players with real value for a star or superstar is our two stars. 

JC is a negative asset for many teams

OO is a good young role player but he's not a centerpiece. 

Griffin has a lot of potential but he's not a centerpiece either. 

Capela is an high end specialist but not everyone wants specialists and damn sure don't for stars as the centerpiece. 

Hunter fills a void for many teams lacking big wings but he's not a centerpiece and trading him would create a void for us which we couldn't easily replace. 

Bogi is just a contract at this point due to his knee. He still has PDS value so he's not a negative but he's not an asset either. 

Our issue is the same with the highlight factory Hawks but maybe worse because we don't have reliable anything. They at least had reliable defense in most matchups.

That said, at least we got stars but we will have to move one to get better. I don't see us moving Trae and contending unless it's a massive upgrade and I don't see us moving Murray for anything less than a star and getting better either. We gotta hit a home run in our next trade. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by NBASupes

[terrell]

16 minutes ago, shakes said:

If you ever look up the stages of denial in the dictionary there's a pic of Spud next to each one.   

Fans overrate our players so bad..

They want all of our draft picks to be good when they arent..

They want all of our trades to be great when they werent..

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is what I've been talking about. Only players with real value for a star or superstar is our two stars. 

JC is a negative asset for many teams

OO is a good young role player but he's not a centerpiece. 

Griffin has a lot of potential but he's not a centerpiece either. 

Capela is an high end specialist but not everyone wants specialists and damn sure don't for stars as the centerpiece. 

Hunter fills a void for many teams lacking big wings but he's not a centerpiece and trading him would create a void for us which we couldn't easily replace. 

Bogi is just a contract at this point due to his knee. He still has PDS value so he's not a negative but he's not an asset either. 

Our issue is the same with the highlight factory Hawks but maybe worse because we don't have reliable anything. They at least had reliable defense in most matchups.

That said, at least we got stars but we will have to move one to get better. I don't see us moving Trae and contending unless it's a massive upgrade and I don't see us moving Murray for anything less than a star and getting better either. We gotta hit a home run in our next trade. 

Seriously what team wants Trae and his BS attitude at this point? Great offesnve player but its hard to build around him.. I know hes not going anywhere but what would a GM give up for him in your honest opinion? Coaches or players dont seem to care for him at all.. I guess there's some owner who needs to sell more tickets out there somewhere? But how long will he even be a big ticket seller? His stock is falling...

Minnesota? Nets? Wizards?

I used to think we should send him home to OKC but they dont need/want Trae anymore with SGA and GIddey..

Edited February 16, 2023 by terrell

[Diesel]

49 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Someone (Diesel perhaps), tell me how I'm supposed to feel considering the same issues rear their ugly head time and time again.  Lethargic and archaic and stoic...OK, awful basketball does not spark enthusiasm with me.  Am I supposed to be happy with a play-in game, first round exit....just getting to the playoffs? I'm freaking not, nor will I ever be. Should I bank on the offseason for the umpteenth hundred time?  We get a big FA right? Always good to dream I guess.

IMHO, the coach or players have to go.  No way the players go, so coach it is.  Don't sell me on the Nate is doing ok crap.  Ain't happening and I ain't buying. I'm not even getting to the FO bs, but what the hell can I surmise that gives me confidence that this team will be a juggernaut before Armageddon? 

Since you called.   You should be mad as hell.   It's Coach.. It's players too.   It's the GM too.

Coaching = Uncreative.  Outdated.   

GM = We need enforcers.  We need shooters.  

Players = Are we giving our best efforts?  The fact that you can put together great quarters but then look like crap in some quarters suggests no. 

I'm tired of reliving the trade of Luka.   We got Trae... forget what could have been..  Too many people want to hate Trae because of the trade.  You guys need your own site where you can bitch and moan and complain about that all day.   But don't make this that site. 

Now.. Back to the Hawks and Hawks fans...

Nate is a good coach.. he's just good for 1994.  2023 is too nuanced.  Three point shooting has changed the game.  So you give Nate talent and he coaches them to play " The right way"... well damnit, let's coach the wrong way for a while. 

Don't misunderstand, Thibs is just as set in his ways but his deal is defense and physicality.  In that, he has a team in his own image.  We can't give Nate a team in his own image because Trae's talent is so far out of Nate's image and his shortcoming are so far out of his image that it's never going be a good match.  DJ is a Nate like Pg. 

On to the players.   Last night was Cancun on three night.   The last two games have been poor effort.  Maybe they think that Nate would get fired.  And turn the team over to who?  Van Exel?  That would be interesting. 

GM/Owner - we see the mistake of making moves for the Cap/Tax.  Good teams don't do that.   When you do that, you signal to everybody that you're not serious about winning.  No matter what you say.   I think this is the biggest tragedy of all that we see here.  Bigger than the coach and bigger than the player.  The owner has signaled that he's not serious about winning. 

Now the players understand that the owner is not serious about winning.   Will they go out and bust their ass for anything other than their own pockets? 

Where are the vets?  You need vets who have felt the pain of losing before.  You need vets who have tasted winning before.  Where are our vets?  You need vocal vets.   I love Clint but I don't think Clint is a vocal vet.  Where are the vets that will tell these young guys about a window and the possibility of missing that window.  Look around.  Clint is our only vet.   We have guys who have never had to fight hard and failed while fighting trying to be vets and captains.   We had Vince, Solo and Tony... that's a great bunch... but we got rid of them all.   We have no vets who can help these young dudes get the eye of the tiger. 

So we need a break.  We need a chance to look at what we have and where this is going.  

 

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, terrell said:

Seriously what team wants Trae and his BS attitude at this point? Great offesnve player but its hard to build around him.. I know hes not going anywhere but what would a GM give up for him in your honest opinion? Coaches or players dont seem to care for him at all.. I guess there's some owner who needs to sell more tickets out there somewhere? But how long will he even be a big ticket seller? His stock is falling...

Minnesota? Nets? Wizards?

I used to think we should send him home to OKC but they dont need/want Trae anymore with SGA and GIddey..

I am starting to believe Murray has better trade value than Trae if you just focus on the basketball. Trae's media value and market value makes him 10x the value nonetheless. I can see why guys like Scal talk about Trae in trades like he's Murbury.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am starting to believe Murray has better trade value than Trae if you just focus on the basketball. Trae's media value and market value makes him 10x the value nonetheless. I can see why guys like Scal talk about Trae in trades like he's Murbury.

Can you guys stop it. 

I saw you in the other post still crying about Luka.  Let's move on.  This agenda is old.  I'm going to ask somebody to develop a forum for everybody who has this agenda where you guys can go and bitch, complain, and high five each other about your bitching.   We can call it the we hate Luka for Trae forum.  And the agenda can live there and be banned everywhere else. 

Trae is more valuable than DJ because Trae is consistent.   When you put him under the microscope you will find some shortcomings.   But hey do the same to Kobe, Jordan, Luka, and Lebron and you will see the same.   But even if you hate him... you have to recognize that he's an offensive wonder.  He needs the right guidance and he cannot be left to his own devices.  

 

 

[terrell]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am starting to believe Murray has better trade value than Trae if you just focus on the basketball. Trae's media value and market value makes him 10x the value nonetheless. I can see why guys like Scal talk about Trae in trades like he's Murbury.

The Jazz would be ideal with all of their draft capital...Wolves dont have shit as far as picks... Send his ass to Utah . It that doesnt humble him nothing will.. lol

I just dont see how LF and KK can watch this team right now and say yes, that's the guy we want to build this team around... But hey maybe its just me...

 

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Can you guys stop it. 

I saw you in the other post still crying about Luka.  Let's move on.  This agenda is old.  I'm going to ask somebody to develop a forum for everybody who has this agenda where you guys can go and bitch, complain, and high five each other about your bitching.   We can call it the we hate Luka for Trae forum.  And the agenda can live there and be banned everywhere else. 

Trae is more valuable than DJ because Trae is consistent.   When you put him under the microscope you will find some shortcomings.   But hey do the same to Kobe, Jordan, Luka, and Lebron and you will see the same.   But even if you hate him... you have to recognize that he's an offensive wonder.  He needs the right guidance and he cannot be left to his own devices.  

 

 

He's back........

[macdaddy]

Nothing has changed.  We started the season with a horrible bench and not a good wing rotation.  I like Murray but he hasn't been the difference maker we hoped for.   We need an elite player at the 2,3 or 4.  Right now we just have some very good players.   But more than that we need a real bench.   There is a lot of work to be done this offseason.   The thought that we can escape the first round is crazy.   

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Nothing has changed.  We started the season with a horrible bench and not a good wing rotation.  I like Murray but he hasn't been the difference maker we hoped for.   We need an elite player at the 2,3 or 4.  Right now we just have some very good players.   But more than that we need a real bench.   There is a lot of work to be done this offseason.   The thought that we can escape the first round is crazy.   

Let me go back to what I said 2 years ago - for this team to take the next step we need 'one of the wings to step up and be the Ying to Trae's Yang' - still waiting!  They are as inconsistent as ever.

[StonedDogs]

Send Trae back home dudes. Free him and lets get SGA. Hunter, Murray and JC are not it. If we could get SCOOT and SGA as a backcourt with OO we're headed in right direction. Bring Colin Sexton home and BJ Boston home. These are guys who are walking buckets who can start and come off the bench. They'd be immediate scoring off the bench if need be. 

Thats my NBA 2K mindset though, I know. 

[macdaddy]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Let me go back to what I said 2 years ago - for this team to take the next step we need 'one of the wings to step up and be the Ying to Trae's Yang' - still waiting!  They are as inconsistent as ever.

Yep.   If DJ was a consistent #2 playing at an all star level then Hunter would be a great 3 for us.   Both they are both inconsistent at the most important positions.   It was the same deal with Kevin last year.  

[Gray Mule]

Winning is the solution.  Now, who is a winner on this team?  Who do we build around?  We've tried Trae and it's not working.  We got who he wanted.  Then we don't become a winning team.  Players must play to win.  Not just play to earn a paycheck.  Our entire attitude looks bad.

Last night even the game officials were against the Hawks.  Didn't matter.  Hawks were doomed from the tip off.  Will Nate survive the all star break?  Why should he?  It's not all his fault.  He's not the one playing defense.  He's not the one taking, and missing, all those shots.  It's thought to be terribly hard to replace Nate and his entire assistant coaching staff.  

Bring in fresh coaching.  Play the entire 15 man roster.  Not all 48 minutes of every game but rotate the bench enough so we can determine who stays and who goes.  If they aren't good enough to play, send them down to the G League and pull up someone who is capable.  Remember, NBA teams only control a very few G League players.  All the others are free for the taking.  Use a lot of 10 day contracts if necessary.

Do something?  Do nothing?  We shall see.

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Can you guys stop it. 

I saw you in the other post still crying about Luka.  Let's move on.  This agenda is old.  I'm going to ask somebody to develop a forum for everybody who has this agenda where you guys can go and bitch, complain, and high five each other about your bitching.   We can call it the we hate Luka for Trae forum.  And the agenda can live there and be banned everywhere else. 

Trae is more valuable than DJ because Trae is consistent.   When you put him under the microscope you will find some shortcomings.   But hey do the same to Kobe, Jordan, Luka, and Lebron and you will see the same.   But even if you hate him... you have to recognize that he's an offensive wonder.  He needs the right guidance and he cannot be left to his own devices.  

 

 

@terrell isn't lying when he says who wants Trae. We all know how Murray can help a team as their 3rd best player on a championship team as a PG who can play on and off the ball. 

What about Trae. He's extremely ball dominate. Takes a lot of bad shots. Can't play off the ball. Atrocious defender which already removes him from many teams boards. His media and market value will always make him appealing to owners but GMs would be fools to openly take him. I would honestly choose Murray over Trae if I didn't already have either of them. Atlanta is tied to Trae as his market value is insane and they will lose a lot of money trading him as a franchise. But as a player, they would improve by moving Trae. Not as much as they would like but his floor is too low. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Nothing has changed.  We started the season with a horrible bench and not a good wing rotation.  I like Murray but he hasn't been the difference maker we hoped for.   We need an elite player at the 2,3 or 4.  Right now we just have some very good players.   But more than that we need a real bench.   There is a lot of work to be done this offseason.   The thought that we can escape the first round is crazy.   

I agree with this and maybe the truth is that maybe the growth is coming but we're somewhat passed waiting on growth.   Some nights Dre gets it and some nights he doesn't.  He's inconsistent.  JC is diverse.   He can do a lot of things well but he's not excellent at one thing.   It may be that he's terribly misused... I can see him being a better PF in the post than us  trying to use him as a stretch 4... but defensively his shortcomings are what they are.   JJ should get more PT but he has to make the most of PT. 

DJ has a great game and could be a great OG... You see it some nights but then on some nights he can't hit the face of a building. 

The bench is also growth in action.  AJ, OO, JJ, and Bey... are growth in action.  But where are the vets?  If we were close, I would beg VC to comeback and give us one more season as Player/coach. 

We need vets.

We need an enforcer.

We need a coach who will draw up schemes that will put players in their best positions to score. 

I'm tired of watching us work hard for points. 

 

 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

Send Trae back home dudes. Free him and lets get SGA. Hunter, Murray and JC are not it. If we could get SCOOT and SGA as a backcourt with OO we're headed in right direction. Bring Colin Sexton home and BJ Boston home. These are guys who are walking buckets who can start and come off the bench. They'd be immediate scoring off the bench if need be. 

Thats my NBA 2K mindset though, I know. 

SGA sucks...

Let me say that Louder....

SGA f***ing SUCKS....

I could respect your take on trading Trae if you were talking about trading him for a player that Doesn't f***ing SUCKS.. .but SGA f***ing SUCKS... You want to trade a future Hall of Famer for a player who at most will be NATE MCMILLAN.  He SUCKS!!

Mods.. we need the I Hate the Trae for Luka Forum to be made... Right Now... today.  So that we can stop polluting the mainboard with BS like this.  Yeah Terrell  I'm BACK.. Calling out all BS. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

SGA sucks...

Let me say that Louder....

SGA f***ing SUCKS....

I could respect your take on trading Trae if you were talking about trading him for a player that Doesn't f***ing SUCKS.. .but SGA f***ing SUCKS... You want to trade a future Hall of Famer for a player who at most will be NATE MCMILLAN.  He SUCKS!!

Mods.. we need the I Hate the Trae for Luka Forum to be made... Right Now... today.  So that we can stop polluting the mainboard with BS like this.  Yeah Terrell  I'm BACK.. Calling out all BS. 

 

SGA is better than Trae and Murray.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm tired of watching us work hard for points. 

We don't have an offensive plan to help with that....with or without Trae.