Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I may start drinking. That man didn't get in till 3 minutes to go in the game....Screw you Nate.  Screw you!

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That's true but unlike Trae those teams didn't go to the playoffs on SGA's back.  

That's fair

 

No one is winning with 

Huerter

Hunter 

JC

Capela

Edited February 16, 2023 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Someone...anyone...please explain to me why Jalen Johnson was set to get a DNP last night until the last 3 minutes!!!  He has the highest +/- of any Hawk the last 15 games who has played regularly.  His contributions won't always show in the box score but he's played inspired defense, forced movement, passed well and inspired a few wins.  WTH Nate!!!

Something is not right with Dejounte...is he hurt?

Trae has been significantly better the last 15 games than the first 30....why are we still a .500 club?

I am tired of the sunshine being cast on Bogie.  I miss Huerter....but we all know that.

It's Nate and his #The9isThe9 - he goes into a game deciding who is going to play and despite what the team needs as the game unfolds he is sticking to it.

DJ is playing too many minutes and he has a defensive load on his shoulders.

Trae has his own warts: TOs, untimely shots etc

Bogi is playing waaayyyy too many minutes and for too long stretches.  If he doesn't have his flame thrower going he should be on the bench.

[Spud2nique]

Our backcourt went 7-26 and 1-10 from deep. 

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Funny and sad

[Sothron]

Let me say something that I've heard from my sources including non Hawks sources: Trae Young is going nowhere. This "let's trade Trae!" talk is the worst kind of fan speculation. It is literally not going to happen. Unless Trae at some point goes to Tony Ressler and says "I want out" he will NEVER be traded.

We need the best team around Trae that we can build. It may not be the best team possible but in real life terms and NOT the fantasy world of 2K where you can trade anyone for anything that is what we need to focus on as fans.

We need an elite center that can shoot from outside and also have an inside game. I can tell you all that our goal this offseason is to try and trade for Embiid, AD or KAT. That's the goal. The big fish goal. I am not saying it will happen but that is what our focus is on in the offseason. KAT will be on the trade block this summer. Harden is going to go back to Houston and Embiid will want out. The Lakers want to get rid of AD and his contract/injury situation.

We need a big wing like Hunter on this team. We need an elite center as mentioned above. DJM does actually fit well for us because he is solid plus he and Trae are very tight with each other. Everyone else on the roster is available including OO and AJ as well as Capela, JC and Bogi. 

I expect a new coach hired in the offseason and major roster turnover as a result. If we strike out on those three big names then expect something else to be done. The only bright spot I can offer frankly is that from what I have heard plus what @NBASupes has heard is that Nick Ressler has convinced Tony to pay the LT starting next season. I know, I know. I will  believe it when I see it and said as much to my own sources. 

This team, this season, is basically a lost cause. We are a playin team, again.  This team has given up on Nate. Nate is not going to change and suddenly have the team shooting three's at a normal NBA pace and run an actually offense versus hunting mid range isolation shots.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Let me say something that I've heard from my sources including non Hawks sources: Trae Young is going nowhere. This "let's trade Trae!" talk is the worst kind of fan speculation. It is literally not going to happen. Unless Trae at some point goes to Tony Ressler and says "I want out" he will NEVER be traded.

We need the best team around Trae that we can build. It may not be the best team possible but in real life terms and NOT the fantasy world of 2K where you can trade anyone for anything that is what we need to focus on as fans.

We need an elite center that can shoot from outside and also have an inside game. I can tell you all that our goal this offseason is to try and trade for Embiid, AD or KAT. That's the goal. The big fish goal. I am not saying it will happen but that is what our focus is on in the offseason. KAT will be on the trade block this summer. Harden is going to go back to Houston and Embiid will want out. The Lakers want to get rid of AD and his contract/injury situation.

We need a big wing like Hunter on this team. We need an elite center as mentioned above. DJM does actually fit well for us because he is solid plus he and Trae are very tight with each other. Everyone else on the roster is available including OO and AJ as well as Capela, JC and Bogi. 

I expect a new coach hired in the offseason and major roster turnover as a result. If we strike out on those three big names then expect something else to be done. The only bright spot I can offer frankly is that from what I have heard plus what @NBASupes has heard is that Nick Ressler has convinced Tony to pay the LT starting next season. I know, I know. I will  believe it when I see it and said as much to my own sources. 

This team, this season, is basically a lost cause. We are a playin team, again.  This team has given up on Nate. Nate is not going to change and suddenly have the team shooting three's at a normal NBA pace and run an actually offense versus hunting mid range isolation shots.

[macdaddy]

I don't like Embiid or AD.   I'm down with KAT.   But honestly if that doesn't work out i'd go after Lauri again and load up on sharp shooters on the bench.   

[terrell]

4 hours ago, shakes said:

sorry, that ship sailed 2 months ago.  We had our chance to throw in the towel, but we blew it.  No surprise there for a franchise that hasn't gotten a single thing right in the 5 years I've been following.

Its not too late.. lol

[terrell]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Yep! It's clear these guys are delusional with Trae but we rarely have had top 5 media and market guys. Just Nique and Trae. 

Top 5 media/market guy for the time being... How long will it last? I said last summer Trae might not make the Allstar game again for a long while(unless Hawks are a top team in the East) because coaches and players cant stand him.....and got creamed for it.. 

Well.............................Here we are..

Edited February 16, 2023 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

The only bright spot I can offer frankly is that from what I have heard plus what @NBASupes has heard is that Nick Ressler has convinced Tony to pay the LT starting next season. I know, I know. I will  believe it when I see it and said as much to my own sources.

You know what I'm about to say - fool me once. 

Bob Rathbaun or Steve Holman was on local radio yesterday saying Tony is willing to play the tax and he wasn't afraid of the tax....but yeah...he made sure we were under BEFORE this season started.  So grain of salt until it happens.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

We need the best team around Trae that we can build. It may not be the best team possible but in real life terms and NOT the fantasy world 

We also need a coach that can coach him up and Trae needs to allow himself to be coached. The best of the best allow themselves to be coached.

[kg01]

@thecampster you might be a casual if you think JJ should play.  See, he had that turnover that one time so ... ya know, rookie mistakes and whatnot.  He'll be good to play after like 8 or 12 years when I'll consider him a veteran.   Pay his dues and such. Harrumph, harrumph. - iRobot 

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

@thecampster you might be a casual if you think JJ should play.  See, he had that turnover that one time so ... ya know, rookie mistakes and whatnot.  He'll be good to play after like 8 or 12 years when I'll consider him a veteran.   Pay his dues and such. Harrumph, harrumph. - iRobot 

 

[SalvorMallow]

31 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We also need a coach that can coach him up and Trae needs to allow himself to be coached. The best of the best allow themselves to be coached.

I actually think Trae IS allowing himself to be coached, he's just getting terrible advice.

 

Do you notice how few shots he has been taking lately? He constantly passes up shots to defer to the bricklayers that surround him. 

 

The offense goes to ISO regardless of who is on the floor in the final minutes of the game. This isn't a Trae thing. 

 

Trae is committing on defense more than I've ever seen him. 

 

We need a coach who knows 21st century basketball and some Vet leadership in the locker room like solo and Gallo to get us through the tough times. Even the trades at the deadline made our team younger. 

[shakes]

51 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We also need a coach that can coach him up and Trae needs to allow himself to be coached. The best of the best allow themselves to be coached.

I don't know if that's possible tbh.   I think the only adult he listens to is his dad.

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, shakes said:

I don't know if that's possible tbh.   I think the only adult he listens to is his dad.

His dad and me,of course.  Everyone listens to me.

[shakes]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

His dad and me,of course.  Everyone listens to me.

you're my go to guy if I want to discuss who was better, Derrick Favors or Tom Hammonds.   And we're either of them as good as James Forrest?   And if so, how about Matt Harpring?

 

Trivia question for myself:  Where did James Forrest hit a buzzer beater in the NCAA tourney?

 

My answer without looking it up:  Milwaukee?

 

 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

Let me say something that I've heard from my sources including non Hawks sources: Trae Young is going nowhere. This "let's trade Trae!" talk is the worst kind of fan speculation. It is literally not going to happen. Unless Trae at some point goes to Tony Ressler and says "I want out" he will NEVER be traded.

We need the best team around Trae that we can build. It may not be the best team possible but in real life terms and NOT the fantasy world of 2K where you can trade anyone for anything that is what we need to focus on as fans.

We need an elite center that can shoot from outside and also have an inside game. I can tell you all that our goal this offseason is to try and trade for Embiid, AD or KAT. That's the goal. The big fish goal. I am not saying it will happen but that is what our focus is on in the offseason. KAT will be on the trade block this summer. Harden is going to go back to Houston and Embiid will want out. The Lakers want to get rid of AD and his contract/injury situation.

We need a big wing like Hunter on this team. We need an elite center as mentioned above. DJM does actually fit well for us because he is solid plus he and Trae are very tight with each other. Everyone else on the roster is available including OO and AJ as well as Capela, JC and Bogi. 

I expect a new coach hired in the offseason and major roster turnover as a result. If we strike out on those three big names then expect something else to be done. The only bright spot I can offer frankly is that from what I have heard plus what @NBASupes has heard is that Nick Ressler has convinced Tony to pay the LT starting next season. I know, I know. I will  believe it when I see it and said as much to my own sources. 

This team, this season, is basically a lost cause. We are a playin team, again.  This team has given up on Nate. Nate is not going to change and suddenly have the team shooting three's at a normal NBA pace and run an actually offense versus hunting mid range isolation shots.

Yeah the easiest fix might be to get rid of all the bigs not named JJ.....

Out with CC, Collins, OO... None can shoot, dribble, or pass. Only 1 can rebound. Only 1 can guard the perimeter.

Fans like to say our front line is solid, but it really isnt IMO.

OO can be very useful as a backup though, depending on what kind of defense we want to run(and how much $ he's gonna want)....

But an undersized center who can't rebound has very little usage with Trae and DJ.

We need as much size as possible.

Edited February 16, 2023 by terrell

[theheroatl]

59 minutes ago, terrell said:

Yeah the easiest fix might be to get rid of all the bigs not named JJ.....

Out with CC, Collins, OO... None can shoot, dribble, or pass. Only 1 can rebound. Only 1 can guard the perimeter.

Fans like to say our front line is solid, but it really isnt IMO.

OO can be very useful as a backup though, depending on what kind of defense we want to run(and how much $ he's gonna want)....

But an undersized center who can't rebound has very little usage with Trae and DJ.

We need as much size as possible.

OO has a better chance of becoming a 3 point shooter than other centers. Plus he is efficient and probably will take less than a rookie max extension.

Edited February 16, 2023 by theheroatl

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, thecampster said:

Not including the new Hawks....some stat looks.  All stats are PER36.  Games played shown for context.

PER36 +/-

PLAYERS	GP	+/-
Tyrese Martin	13	3.2
Trae Young	52	1.8
De'Andre Hunter	49	1.1
John Collins	50	1
Clint Capela	43	0.7
Vit Krejci	21	0.3
Frank Kaminsky	26	0.2
Aaron Holiday	50	-0.2
Dejounte Murray	54	-0.3
AJ Griffin	55	-0.4
Onyeka Okongwu	57	-1.3
Bogdan Bogdanovic	34	-1.4
Jalen Johnson	55	-2.6
Jarrett Culver	10	-5
Justin Holiday	28	-5.8
Trent Forrest	18	-8

 

 

Same stat last 15 games.

PLAYERS	GP	+/-
Tyrese Martin	2	23.7
Jalen Johnson	14	5.4
Trae Young	13	4.1
AJ Griffin	15	3.3
Clint Capela	15	1.1
De'Andre Hunter	13	1
John Collins	14	0.6
Onyeka Okongwu	14	-0.2
Bogdan Bogdanovic	14	-0.6
Aaron Holiday	10	-1.2
Dejounte Murray	15	-1.2
Vit Krejci	4	-18.9
Trent Forrest	3	-21.3
Frank Kaminsky	4	-25.5
Justin Holiday	1	-57

 

Someone...anyone...please explain to me why Jalen Johnson was set to get a DNP last night until the last 3 minutes!!!  He has the highest +/- of any Hawk the last 15 games who has played regularly.  His contributions won't always show in the box score but he's played inspired defense, forced movement, passed well and inspired a few wins.  WTH Nate!!!

Something is not right with Dejounte...is he hurt?

Trae has been significantly better the last 15 games than the first 30....why are we still a .500 club?

I am tired of the sunshine being cast on Bogie.  I miss Huerter....but we all know that.

 

Now Rebounds...again, per36 last 15 games.

PLAYERS	GP	MIN	REB
Clint Capela	15	393	14.7
Jalen Johnson	14	168	13.9
Onyeka Okongwu	14	296	11.1
Vit Krejci	4	13	8.1
John Collins	14	437	5.9
Dejounte Murray	15	549	5.5
De'Andre Hunter	13	420	4.8
Trent Forrest	3	29	3.8
Aaron Holiday	10	91	3.6
Bogdan Bogdanovic	14	395	3.6
Trae Young	13	447	3.5
AJ Griffin	15	292	3.2
Frank Kaminsky	4	14	2.6
Justin Holiday	1	6	0
Tyrese Martin	2	3	0

 

WTF JC...WTF DH...WTF Nate.  Your biggest issue right now is defensive rebounding and your second highest rebounding rate player was earning a DNP last night while it took a concussion to get your 25 million/yr 5.9 rebound/36 minutes PF out of the game.  WTF.

 

Defensive Rebounding again...  last 15 games

PLAYERS	GP	MIN	DREB
Jalen Johnson	14	168	10.9
Clint Capela	15	393	8.6
Vit Krejci	4	13	8.1
Onyeka Okongwu	14	296	6.9
Dejounte Murray	15	549	4.8
John Collins	14	437	4.8
De'Andre Hunter	13	420	4.2
Trent Forrest	3	29	3.8
AJ Griffin	15	292	2.8
Bogdan Bogdanovic	14	395	2.8
Frank Kaminsky	4	14	2.6
Trae Young	13	447	2.5
Aaron Holiday	10	91	2.4
Justin Holiday	1	6	0
Tyrese Martin	2	3	0

 

I may start drinking. That man didn't get in till 3 minutes to go in the game....Screw you Nate.  Screw you!

 

Yah...I'm that mad. 

 

This really pisses me off.  Because these stats do not surprise me at all.  Nate strikes me as the type of coach that remembers the worst thing you did in a game, and uses that to punish you . . even if you did a lot of good the rest of the game.

I knew as soon as we got Bey, that one of the kids would have their minutes cut.  Even in the Charlotte game, JJ didn't get the start, despite Collins being out.  It just proves that Nate and his staff could give a damn about advanced stats.