Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks

[shakes]

Just now, AHF said:

I still don't think they will be tanking fwiw.  Nate won't tank even if he is utterly ineffective and I don't think a replacement coach will.  We remain most likely to be in the play-in group this season.

 

yep, ATL is firmly on the play in treadmill for the forseeable future.

[StonedDogs]

@Diesel nah dude SGA is good amd surround him with ballers and a coach he's unstoppable. This isn't a hate Trae thing its just this team imo has reached its peak with Trae. You cannot win a ring with him as your #1. Hard pill for you to swallow I know but its true. You cannot beat the Celtics, Heat, or Bucks in a 7 game series when defense is at an all time high trying to hide Trae at the bottom on defense. 

A team will gameplan for the Hawks in playoffs and maybe not shut him completely down, but limit his favorite tendencies. Can imagine a backcourt of SGA and Scoot with Boston and Sexton off the bench? Its two starting lineups 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

he's averaging 30ppg while shooting over 50% from the field.  And he can play defense! GTFO with your nonsense.

There isn't a single thing Trae does better than Shai other than rack up assists.  And guess which PG has his team with a higher offensive rating than the other?

 

And Shai's team is TRYING TO LOSE.

Yep! It's clear these guys are delusional with Trae but we rarely have had top 5 media and market guys. Just Nique and Trae. 

[Diesel]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Players are aware that Nate has one foot out the door.

Maybe.  But it's still on Nate to put players in their best light. 

JC is a prime example.   Under LP, JC was one thing. great. Under Nate... JC is another thing... Missing.   Nate is the problem...  Look at this:

Rk		Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA ▼	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS/G
1	Victor Oladipo	26	36	36	31.9	6.9	16.3	.423	2.1	6.0	.343	4.9	10.3	.470	.486	2.9	3.9	.730	0.6	5.0	5.6	5.2	1.7	0.3	2.3	2.0	18.8
2	Bojan Bogdanović	29	81	81	31.8	6.4	13.0	.497	2.0	4.8	.425	4.4	8.2	.538	.575	3.0	3.8	.807	0.4	3.7	4.1	2.0	0.9	0.0	1.7	1.7	18.0
3	Myles Turner	22	74	74	28.6	5.1	10.5	.487	1.0	2.6	.388	4.1	7.9	.521	.536	2.0	2.7	.736	1.4	5.8	7.2	1.6	0.8	2.7	1.4	2.6	13.3
4	Thaddeus Young	30	81	81	30.7	5.5	10.4	.527	0.6	1.8	.349	4.8	8.6	.564	.557	1.1	1.7	.644	2.4	4.1	6.5	2.5	1.5	0.4	1.5	2.4	12.6
5	Tyreke Evans	29	69	18	20.3	3.7	9.6	.389	1.1	3.1	.356	2.6	6.4	.405	.448	1.7	2.3	.719	0.5	2.4	2.9	2.4	0.8	0.3	1.7	1.7	10.2
6	Domantas Sabonis	22	74	5	24.8	5.6	9.5	.590	0.1	0.2	.529	5.5	9.2	.592	.596	2.8	3.9	.715	2.5	6.8	9.3	2.9	0.6	0.4	2.2	3.2	14.1
7	Wesley Matthews	32	23	23	31.5	3.5	9.1	.386	2.1	5.7	.369	1.4	3.5	.413	.500	1.8	2.1	.854	0.5	2.3	2.8	2.4	0.9	0.2	1.3	2.4	10.9
8	Darren Collison	31	76	76	28.2	4.1	8.7	.467	1.0	2.6	.407	3.0	6.1	.492	.527	2.1	2.5	.832	0.5	2.6	3.1	6.0	1.4	0.1	1.6	1.8	11.2
9	Cory Joseph	27	82	9	25.2	2.8	6.7	.412	0.7	2.1	.322	2.1	4.6	.454	.463	0.4	0.5	.698	0.5	2.9	3.4	3.9	1.1	0.3	1.0	1.6	6.5
10	Doug McDermott	27	77	1	17.4	2.7	5.5	.491	1.1	2.7	.408	1.6	2.8	.569	.590	0.9	1.0	.835	0.2	1.2	1.4	0.9	0.2	0.1	0.5	1.4	7.3
11	Aaron Holiday	22	50	0	12.9	2.1	5.2	.401	0.9	2.5	.339	1.2	2.7	.459	.483	0.8	1.0	.820	0.1	1.2	1.3	1.7	0.4	0.3	0.8	1.4	5.9
12	T.J. Leaf	21	58	1	9.0	1.7	3.2	.541	0.1	0.5	.258	1.6	2.6	.599	.563	0.3	0.5	.613	0.7	1.4	2.2	0.4	0.2	0.3	0.2	0.6	3.9
13	Kyle O'Quinn	28	45	3	8.2	1.5	3.0	.507	0.0	0.3	.083	1.5	2.8	.548	.511	0.4	0.5	.810	0.6	2.0	2.6	1.2	0.2	0.6	0.7	1.5	3.5
14	Edmond Sumner	23	23	2	9.1	1.0	2.8	.344	0.3	1.2	.259	0.7	1.6	.405	.398	0.7	1.0	.625	0.4	0.7	1.0	0.4	0.5	0.2	0.4	1.1	2.9
15	Davon Reed	23	10	0	4.7	0.5	1.2	.417	0.2	0.4	.500	0.3	0.8	.375	.500	0.0	0.0		0.2	0.4	0.6	0.3	0.1	0.0	0.1	0.3	1.2
16	Alize Johnson	22	14	0	4.6	0.3	1.1	.250	0.1	0.1	.500	0.2	1.0	.214	.281	0.3	0.6	.500	0.3	1.1	1.4	0.1	0.1	0.2	0.0	0.5	0.9
17	Ike Anigbogu	20	3	0	2.0	0.0	1.0	.000	0.0	0.0		0.0	1.0	.000	.000	0.0	0.0		0.3	0.7	1.0	0.3	0.0	0.3	0.3	0.0

Look at Sabonis... One of your best scorers... coming off the bench and getting less attempts than Thad Young and Tyreke Evans.  Dude was shooting 59%.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

he's averaging 30ppg while shooting over 50% from the field.  And he can play defense! GTFO with your nonsense.

There isn't a single thing Trae does better than Shai other than rack up assists.  And guess which PG has his team with a higher offensive rating than the other?

 

And Shai's team is TRYING TO LOSE.

He's had a good two thirds of a season.  Kudos.   

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

@Diesel nah dude SGA is good amd surround him with ballers and a coach he's unstoppable. This isn't a hate Trae thing its just this team imo has reached its peak with Trae. You cannot win a ring with him as your #1. Hard pill for you to swallow I know but its true. You cannot beat the Celtics, Heat, or Bucks in a 7 game series when defense is at an all time high trying to hide Trae at the bottom on defense. 

A team will gameplan for the Hawks in playoffs and maybe not shut him completely down, but limit his favorite tendencies. Can imagine a backcourt of SGA and Scoot with Boston and Sexton off the bench? Its two starting lineups 

SGA is inflated by free throws.  He's doesn't run the offense.  Doesn't produce assists.   His game is based on Athleticism.   If you want that to be the case, we should start  AHOLI.   

 

[shakes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

He's had a good two thirds of a season.  Kudos.   

 

when has Trae ever had more than a good 2/3 of a season?

[NBASupes]

I think the Murray trade worked out way better for Murray than Trae. 

He's proved he can play off the ball. Although he's not great or even good at it, he's legit solid. 

He proved he can handle extreme defensive role at a solid level which you question whenever seen see big stat guys on bad teams. Are they legit or are they Sharif Abdul-Rahim types. Murray beat the empty stats case and proved that he is a borderline two-way all star PG which who can help you win games. That's valuable to specific teams which means he got legit trade value. 

Trae went from this, well look what he's doing by himself offensively in Atlanta to, man, he's just an empty stats chucker who plays negative defense and makes a team worse. Trae value went from 35 wins at the end of last year to 25 wins this year. That's the same as Hunter and last year's Gallo. Lmaooo! Trae regressed and regressed bad and doesn't have much leverage as his defense is ass. 

[macdaddy]

Just now, shakes said:

 

when has Trae ever had more than a good 2/3 of a season?

Good question.  I guess i'd check how many times he was top 10 in points and assists, how many years his team was better with him on the court than off, how many times he's taken a team to the playoffs as the #1 option.   

[shakes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Good question.  I guess i'd check how many times he was top 10 in points and assists, how many years his team was better with him on the court than off, how many times he's taken a team to the playoffs as the #1 option.   

when you're done moving the goalposts how bout just answering my question?

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

when you're done moving the goalposts how bout just answering my question?

ok

[AHF]

SGA is a very good player but guys would be torching him if he was leading this team to a losing record like he has done every season in his career.  The interesting question with him is whether he can sustain his current scoring efficiency.  He and Trae have very similar numbers for their career with this year obviously being very different - Shai is having his career best season by a mile and Trae is having his worst season since his rookie year.  

I would trade a lot to get him (I wanted us to throw the kitchen sink at OKC to get him rather than DJ) but I haven't seen enough to think he is on a different level from Trae.  Every year before this season Trae was on a higher level.  This season SGA is on a higher level.  Overall, I don't see the case for SGA being that much better for the next 5 years and I've been a huge SGA fan since he was at UK.  Again, I'd love to add him but swapping him for Trae won't move the needle, imo.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

SGA is a very good player but guys would be torching him if he was leading this team to a losing record like he has done every season in his career.  The interesting question with him is whether he can sustain his current scoring efficiency.  He and Trae have very similar numbers for their career with this year obviously being very different - Shai is having his career best season by a mile and Trae is having his worst season since his rookie year.  

I would trade a lot to get him (I wanted us to throw the kitchen sink at OKC to get him rather than DJ) but I haven't seen enough to think he is on a different level from Trae.  Every year before this season Trae was on a higher level.  This season SGA is on a higher level.  Overall, I don't see the case for SGA being that much better for the next 5 years and I've been a huge SGA fan since he was at UK.  Again, I'd love to add him but swapping him for Trae won't move the needle, imo.

He's been to the playoffs as many times as Trae on teams no one expected to be there before the season. The Clippers and Thunder was seen as tanking teams before those seasons and they were massively tanking in the other years. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by NBASupes

[NekiEcko]

Knowing @shakes, he will probably trade Trae for Westbrick and 5 second rounders.  But as this team goes, I got a bad feeling that this team will not be in the play-in either and there has to be a nice voice in that locker room that is going to get to Trae, DM and others to play to their strengths and we have to trade as well.

[thecampster]

After the back to back steals in the first half by Trae, I really thought we were going to see the comeback.  But the lack of movement on offense and lack of effort at the perimeter quickly told me that 3/4ths of the players quit.  

When Trae Young is giving the best defensive effort on the floor, there is a real problem.

I was fuming last night, today its no better.

[shakes]

9 minutes ago, NekiEcko said:

Knowing @shakes, he will probably trade Trae for Westbrick and 5 second rounders.  But as this team goes, I got a bad feeling that this team will not be in the play-in either and there has to be a nice voice in that locker room that is going to get to Trae, DM and others to play to their strengths and we have to trade as well.

I don't want to trade Trae.  I just want someone to beat some sense into his head.  

[Diesel]

34 minutes ago, AHF said:

SGA is a very good player but guys would be torching him if he was leading this team to a losing record like he has done every season in his career.  The interesting question with him is whether he can sustain his current scoring efficiency.  He and Trae have very similar numbers for their career with this year obviously being very different - Shai is having his career best season by a mile and Trae is having his worst season since his rookie year.  

I would trade a lot to get him (I wanted us to throw the kitchen sink at OKC to get him rather than DJ) but I haven't seen enough to think he is on a different level from Trae.  Every year before this season Trae was on a higher level.  This season SGA is on a higher level.  Overall, I don't see the case for SGA being that much better for the next 5 years and I've been a huge SGA fan since he was at UK.  Again, I'd love to add him but swapping him for Trae won't move the needle, imo.

Until I see defenses set up to stop SGA.. I don't consider him that important.  I betcha if you looked at the stats... OKC has played against more Load Management Stars than they have against teams playing their best players and focused to stop them.   This stat needs to come into existence.   Now that load management is a thing.

But I doubt that teams are putting their best defenses out to stop SGA. 

 

[macdaddy]

33 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's been to the playoffs as many times as Trae on teams no one expected to be there before the season. The Clippers and Thunder was seen as tanking teams before those seasons and they were massively tanking in the other years. 

That's true but unlike Trae those teams didn't go to the playoffs on SGA's back.  

[Spud2nique]

Couple observations …

Ain't no way RJ godfather is Nash… RJ didn’t soak up anything. This kid blows.

 

Speaking of that 2019 draft, Hunter blows. I’m done with him.

[thecampster]

Not including the new Hawks....some stat looks.  All stats are PER36.  Games played shown for context.

PER36 +/-

PLAYERS	GP	+/-
Tyrese Martin	13	3.2
Trae Young	52	1.8
De'Andre Hunter	49	1.1
John Collins	50	1
Clint Capela	43	0.7
Vit Krejci	21	0.3
Frank Kaminsky	26	0.2
Aaron Holiday	50	-0.2
Dejounte Murray	54	-0.3
AJ Griffin	55	-0.4
Onyeka Okongwu	57	-1.3
Bogdan Bogdanovic	34	-1.4
Jalen Johnson	55	-2.6
Jarrett Culver	10	-5
Justin Holiday	28	-5.8
Trent Forrest	18	-8

 

 

Same stat last 15 games.

PLAYERS	GP	+/-
Tyrese Martin	2	23.7
Jalen Johnson	14	5.4
Trae Young	13	4.1
AJ Griffin	15	3.3
Clint Capela	15	1.1
De'Andre Hunter	13	1
John Collins	14	0.6
Onyeka Okongwu	14	-0.2
Bogdan Bogdanovic	14	-0.6
Aaron Holiday	10	-1.2
Dejounte Murray	15	-1.2
Vit Krejci	4	-18.9
Trent Forrest	3	-21.3
Frank Kaminsky	4	-25.5
Justin Holiday	1	-57

 

Someone...anyone...please explain to me why Jalen Johnson was set to get a DNP last night until the last 3 minutes!!!  He has the highest +/- of any Hawk the last 15 games who has played regularly.  His contributions won't always show in the box score but he's played inspired defense, forced movement, passed well and inspired a few wins.  WTH Nate!!!

Something is not right with Dejounte...is he hurt?

Trae has been significantly better the last 15 games than the first 30....why are we still a .500 club?

I am tired of the sunshine being cast on Bogie.  I miss Huerter....but we all know that.

 

Now Rebounds...again, per36 last 15 games.

PLAYERS	GP	MIN	REB
Clint Capela	15	393	14.7
Jalen Johnson	14	168	13.9
Onyeka Okongwu	14	296	11.1
Vit Krejci	4	13	8.1
John Collins	14	437	5.9
Dejounte Murray	15	549	5.5
De'Andre Hunter	13	420	4.8
Trent Forrest	3	29	3.8
Aaron Holiday	10	91	3.6
Bogdan Bogdanovic	14	395	3.6
Trae Young	13	447	3.5
AJ Griffin	15	292	3.2
Frank Kaminsky	4	14	2.6
Justin Holiday	1	6	0
Tyrese Martin	2	3	0

 

WTF JC...WTF DH...WTF Nate.  Your biggest issue right now is defensive rebounding and your second highest rebounding rate player was earning a DNP last night while it took a concussion to get your 25 million/yr 5.9 rebound/36 minutes PF out of the game.  WTF.

 

Defensive Rebounding again...  last 15 games

PLAYERS	GP	MIN	DREB
Jalen Johnson	14	168	10.9
Clint Capela	15	393	8.6
Vit Krejci	4	13	8.1
Onyeka Okongwu	14	296	6.9
Dejounte Murray	15	549	4.8
John Collins	14	437	4.8
De'Andre Hunter	13	420	4.2
Trent Forrest	3	29	3.8
AJ Griffin	15	292	2.8
Bogdan Bogdanovic	14	395	2.8
Frank Kaminsky	4	14	2.6
Trae Young	13	447	2.5
Aaron Holiday	10	91	2.4
Justin Holiday	1	6	0
Tyrese Martin	2	3	0

 

I may start drinking. That man didn't get in till 3 minutes to go in the game....Screw you Nate.  Screw you!

 

Yah...I'm that mad.